Q: Paste-Up Pairs of Coil Stamps

I don't know if this is strictly a US question. I have a number of
paste-up pairs, specifically US Sc# 458 (hinged), 457 (hinged) and 394
Mint, plate #5424 with APS Cert. I'm evaluating these and am
wondering if what sort of premium is attached to them. Scott's doesn't
go into the values of Paste-up pairs. Maybe if someone has an idea of
how often they would occur then it could be compared to Guide-Line
pairs. Anyone know that information, value and frequency?
Thanks,
TL

On Jan 25, 12:58 pm, Sir F. A. Rien wrote:
TL found these unused words:

I don't know if this is strictly a US question. I have a number of
paste-up pairs, specifically US Sc# 458 (hinged), 457 (hinged) and 394
Mint, plate #5424 with APS Cert. I'm evaluating these and am
wondering if what sort of premium is attached to them. Scott's doesn't
go into the values of Paste-up pairs. Maybe if someone has an idea of
how often they would occur then it could be compared to Guide-Line
pairs. Anyone know that information, value and frequency?
Thanks,
TL

Paste-up pair are made from sheets and IIRC are covered in the Specialized.
For the US I believe they would be every 10 satmps (panes of 10x10 or 100)

GB also has them and they're quite valuable early on - a bit less so in the
post WWI period. Here they're every 20 stamps (vertical delivery) or every
12 (horizontal).

Both are precursors to Rotary Press and continuous roll fed printing.

Thanks. Scott's merely defines the words in the introduction. Then
they go on to define splices. Later on within the stamp section they
talk about double paper. I suppose simple math would conclude that a
paste-up and a guide-line pair can occur in the exact same frequency
but some flat plate printing was done in sheets of 400 - 4 panes of
100. I don't know how they were then turned into coils because of the
gutter between the panes. Anyway I see it like this: paste-up would
occur the most, about the same as guide-line or half as much. Then
when rotary came along paste-up became double paper because the
printing was done after the connection of the sheets of paper and
probably had more overlap. Paste-up is between two stamps, double
paper can happen anywhere. Then came splicing, backing the connection
with transparent tape. These were to be removed after printing so they
are probably the rarest. Paste-ups probably need to be certified as
they might be the easiest to fake. I have some that I call paste-up
that are rotary press so I wonder if technically they are double-paper
OR if both occurred on rotary. If they were removing splices later
then were they doing paste-up with the odd numbers of stamps? I'm
sure someone knows the real answers but it is fun to speculate.

On Jan 26, 9:27 am, Sir F. A. Rien wrote:
TL found these unused words:



On Jan 25, 12:58 pm, Sir F. A. Rien wrote:
TL found these unused words:

I don't know if this is strictly a US question. I have a number of
paste-up pairs, specifically US Sc# 458 (hinged), 457 (hinged) and 394
Mint, plate #5424 with APS Cert. I'm evaluating these and am
wondering if what sort of premium is attached to them. Scott's doesn't
go into the values of Paste-up pairs. Maybe if someone has an idea of
how often they would occur then it could be compared to Guide-Line
pairs. Anyone know that information, value and frequency?
Thanks,
TL

Paste-up pair are made from sheets and IIRC are covered in the Specialized.
For the US I believe they would be every 10 satmps (panes of 10x10 or 100)

GB also has them and they're quite valuable early on - a bit less so in the
post WWI period. Here they're every 20 stamps (vertical delivery) or every
12 (horizontal).

Both are precursors to Rotary Press and continuous roll fed printing.

Thanks. Scott's merely defines the words in the introduction.

Which "Scott's" ... general or Specialized?.

US SPECIALIZED.


Then
they go on to define splices. Later on within the stamp section they
talk about double paper. I suppose simple math would conclude that a
paste-up and a guide-line pair can occur in the exact same frequency
but some flat plate printing was done in sheets of 400 - 4 panes of
100. I don't know how they were then turned into coils because of the
gutter between the panes. Anyway I see it like this: paste-up would
occur the most, about the same as guide-line or half as much.

NO, because paste up was done from sheets and Guide Lines come from rotary
press !

No, Joint lines are what come from Rotary Press. Flat Plate printing
of a hundred had guide lines in the centers vertical and horizontally.

Then
when rotary came along paste-up became double paper because the
printing was done after the connection of the sheets of paper and
probably had more overlap.

No, double paper is where the web tore or a new roll was attached.

Yes, because that is what I meant, although I referred to a roll as
sheet, same idea.

Paste-up is between two stamps, double
paper can happen anywhere. Then came splicing, backing the connection
with transparent tape. These were to be removed after printing so they
are probably the rarest. Paste-ups probably need to be certified as
they might be the easiest to fake.

Yes, you can fake paste ups IF you use top and bottoms of sheets, then knife
cut the matched perforations. Guide lines cn be printed using a printer's
rule and matching (pantone) ink rolled onto a piece of glass.

I have some that I call paste-up
that are rotary press so I wonder if technically they are double-paper
OR if both occurred on rotary. If they were removing splices later
then were they doing paste-up with the odd numbers of stamps? I'm
sure someone knows the real answers but it is fun to speculate.

Yes, 'someone' knows the answers, they're to be found in books on stamps and
printing. A library of books applicable to your area of collecting is
essential.

Start with the Williams' "Fundamentals Of Philately".


"When men are most sure and arrogant they are commonly most mistaken,
giving views to passion without that proper deliberation which alone
can secure them from the grossest absurdities"
David Hume quotes (Scottish Philosopher, Historian, Economist and
Essayist. 1711-1776)

On Jan 26, 10:00 am, TL wrote:
On Jan 26, 9:27 am, Sir F. A. Rien wrote:



TL found these unused words:

On Jan 25, 12:58 pm, Sir F. A. Rien wrote:
TL found these unused words:

I don't know if this is strictly a US question. I have a number of
paste-up pairs, specifically US Sc# 458 (hinged), 457 (hinged) and 394
Mint, plate #5424 with APS Cert. I'm evaluating these and am
wondering if what sort of premium is attached to them. Scott's doesn't
go into the values of Paste-up pairs. Maybe if someone has an idea of
how often they would occur then it could be compared to Guide-Line
pairs. Anyone know that information, value and frequency?
Thanks,
TL

Paste-up pair are made from sheets and IIRC are covered in the Specialized.
For the US I believe they would be every 10 satmps (panes of 10x10 or 100)

GB also has them and they're quite valuable early on - a bit less so in the
post WWI period. Here they're every 20 stamps (vertical delivery) or every
12 (horizontal).

Both are precursors to Rotary Press and continuous roll fed printing.

Thanks. Scott's merely defines the words in the introduction.

Which "Scott's" ... general or Specialized?.

US SPECIALIZED.



Then
they go on to define splices. Later on within the stamp section they
talk about double paper. I suppose simple math would conclude that a
paste-up and a guide-line pair can occur in the exact same frequency
but some flat plate printing was done in sheets of 400 - 4 panes of
100. I don't know how they were then turned into coils because of the
gutter between the panes. Anyway I see it like this: paste-up would
occur the most, about the same as guide-line or half as much.

NO, because paste up was done from sheets and Guide Lines come from rotary
press !

No, Joint lines are what come from Rotary Press. Flat Plate printing
of a hundred had guide lines in the centers vertical and horizontally.

Oops, "Flat Plate Printing of Four hundred..."



Then
when rotary came along paste-up became double paper because the
printing was done after the connection of the sheets of paper and
probably had more overlap.

No, double paper is where the web tore or a new roll was attached.

Yes, because that is what I meant, although I referred to a roll as
sheet, same idea.



Paste-up is between two stamps, double
paper can happen anywhere. Then came splicing, backing the connection
with transparent tape. These were to be removed after printing so they
are probably the rarest. Paste-ups probably need to be certified as
they might be the easiest to fake.

Yes, you can fake paste ups IF you use top and bottoms of sheets, then knife
cut the matched perforations. Guide lines cn be printed using a printer's
rule and matching (pantone) ink rolled onto a piece of glass.

I have some that I call paste-up
that are rotary press so I wonder if technically they are double-paper
OR if both occurred on rotary. If they were removing splices later
then were they doing paste-up with the odd numbers of stamps? I'm
sure someone knows the real answers but it is fun to speculate.

Yes, 'someone' knows the answers, they're to be found in books on stamps and
printing. A library of books applicable to your area of collecting is
essential.

Start with the Williams' "Fundamentals Of Philately".

"When men are most sure and arrogant they are commonly most mistaken,
giving views to passion without that proper deliberation which alone
can secure them from the grossest absurdities"
David Hume quotes (Scottish Philosopher, Historian, Economist and
Essayist. 1711-1776)

On Jan 26, 1:56 pm, Sir F. A. Rien wrote:
TL found these unused words:



On Jan 26, 9:27 am, Sir F. A. Rien wrote:
TL found these unused words:

On Jan 25, 12:58 pm, Sir F. A. Rien wrote:
TL found these unused words:

I don't know if this is strictly a US question. I have a number of
paste-up pairs, specifically US Sc# 458 (hinged), 457 (hinged) and 394
Mint, plate #5424 with APS Cert. I'm evaluating these and am
wondering if what sort of premium is attached to them. Scott's doesn't
go into the values of Paste-up pairs. Maybe if someone has an idea of
how often they would occur then it could be compared to Guide-Line
pairs. Anyone know that information, value and frequency?
Thanks,
TL

Paste-up pair are made from sheets and IIRC are covered in the Specialized.
For the US I believe they would be every 10 satmps (panes of 10x10 or 100)

GB also has them and they're quite valuable early on - a bit less so in the
post WWI period. Here they're every 20 stamps (vertical delivery) or every
12 (horizontal).

Both are precursors to Rotary Press and continuous roll fed printing.

Thanks. Scott's merely defines the words in the introduction.

Which "Scott's" ... general or Specialized?.

US SPECIALIZED.

Then
they go on to define splices. Later on within the stamp section they
talk about double paper. I suppose simple math would conclude that a
paste-up and a guide-line pair can occur in the exact same frequency
but some flat plate printing was done in sheets of 400 - 4 panes of
100. I don't know how they were then turned into coils because of the
gutter between the panes. Anyway I see it like this: paste-up would
occur the most, about the same as guide-line or half as much.

NO, because paste up was done from sheets and Guide Lines come from rotary
press !

No, Joint lines are what come from Rotary Press. Flat Plate printing
of a hundred had guide lines in the centers vertical and horizontally.

Sorry said "Guide" but meant "Joint", There are NO "Guide Lines' on coils.

Then
when rotary came along paste-up became double paper because the
printing was done after the connection of the sheets of paper and
probably had more overlap.

No, double paper is where the web tore or a new roll was attached.

Yes, because that is what I meant, although I referred to a roll as
sheet, same idea.

No, not the same as double paper. It comes from either a tear or splice.
Paste ups are -=deliberate=- in the making of a coil roll and happen far
more frwquently and at regular intervals.



Paste-up is between two stamps, double
paper can happen anywhere. Then came splicing, backing the connection
with transparent tape. These were to be removed after printing so they
are probably the rarest. Paste-ups probably need to be certified as
they might be the easiest to fake.

Yes, you can fake paste ups IF you use top and bottoms of sheets, then knife
cut the matched perforations. Guide lines cn be printed using a printer's
rule and matching (pantone) ink rolled onto a piece of glass.

I have some that I call paste-up
that are rotary press so I wonder if technically they are double-paper
OR if both occurred on rotary. If they were removing splices later
then were they doing paste-up with the odd numbers of stamps? I'm
sure someone knows the real answers but it is fun to speculate.

Yes, 'someone' knows the answers, they're to be found in books on stamps and
printing. A library of books applicable to your area of collecting is
essential.

Start with the Williams' "Fundamentals Of Philately".

"When men are most sure and arrogant they are commonly most mistaken,
giving views to passion without that proper deliberation which alone
can secure them from the grossest absurdities"
David Hume quotes (Scottish Philosopher, Historian, Economist and
Essayist. 1711-1776)

Thanks! Glad you're happy!

KF 080126

I'm starting to get the sense that it doesn't matter what I say, if
you can find an interpretation that makes it wrong you're going to run
with it. Everything you said, I said but slightly differently. I said
double-paper was rarer, you said paste-up was more frequent (because
rolls are larger/longer than sheets of 400). It seems a question of
semantics. There might be no guide lines on rotary coils but there are
guide lines on Flat Plate Coils (those things deliberately pasted
together before Rotary Printing here in the US). There are 20 stamps
- a guide line - 20 stamps - a paste-up - 20 stamps - a guide line-
ETC. This goes for vertical and horizontal. Coils can even have guide
lines running across the top or bottom of the roll. I think you've
used up your quota of "No's". Carefully read what I wrote with an
open mind, replace where I said "sheet" and should have said "roll".
You should then determine that the only thing we've actually disagreed
on was whether Flat Plate Coils have guide lines which you will be
happy to know is something that I got straight out of one of those
essential books in my library. In other words, I didn't make it up. I
read it, I own "Guide Line" coil pairs, I can tell you their CV and
some expert somewhere could give the plate position because they are
right next to the Guide Lines on a sheet of 400 stamps that were
turned into coil rolls. There is a diagram in Scott's Specialized
showing the guide lines and even tells why they were there. Unless
you've made another typo and I should forgive it... although then it
doesn't seem to be a two way street that we are conversing on.

"Sir F. A. Rien"

KF 080126

May I enquire as to what this means please?

On Jan 26, 11:32 pm, "rodney" wrote:
"Sir F. A. Rien"

KF 080126

May I enquire as to what this means please?

Kill file and date. Seems to be the bane of stamp discussion. You may
already be dead. I'm sure I am.

On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 09:08:48 -0800 (PST), TL
wrote:

On Jan 26, 11:32 pm, "rodney" wrote:
"Sir F. A. Rien"

KF 080126

May I enquire as to what this means please?

Kill file and date. Seems to be the bane of stamp discussion. You may
already be dead. I'm sure I am.

According to certain pundits, stamp collecting is dead so we must all
be dead with it! :^)

wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 09:08:48 -0800 (PST), TL
wrote:

On Jan 26, 11:32 pm, "rodney" wrote:
"Sir F. A. Rien"

KF 080126
May I enquire as to what this means please?
Kill file and date. Seems to be the bane of stamp discussion. You may
already be dead. I'm sure I am.

According to certain pundits, stamp collecting is dead so we must all
be dead with it! :^)

To paraphrase Frank Zappa, "stamp collecting is not dead - it just
smells funny."

Ryan

"TL"
On Jan 26, 11:32 pm, "rodney" wrote:
"Sir F. A. Rien"

KF 080126

May I enquire as to what this means please?

Kill file and date. Seems to be the bane of stamp discussion. You may
already be dead. I'm sure I am.

You were killfiled on 8th January 1926?
a piece of mock petulance I'm sure, but if your dead
who wrote the email?