Rowe JEL stuck in play cycle

On Jan 28, 12:44*pm, Rob Blakeslee wrote:
On Dec 7 2010, 9:52*pm, Rob in NYC wrote:



On Dec 7, 9:25*pm, kreed wrote:

On Dec 7, 8:47*pm, Rob Blakeslee wrote:

On Dec 6, 7:50*pm, kreed wrote:

On Dec 7, 7:45*am, Rob Blakeslee wrote:

I just picked aRoweJEL. *It is in great condition, but when I picked
it up the owner powered it on and it appears to be stuck in a play
cycle. *I say that because the turntable is working and the gripper
arm is lowered. *I tried to move the tone arm simulating the record
being completed but nothing happened. *Nothing happens when I hit the
cancel button. *I have the manual and I'm thinking either the cam
switches are messed up or the reed switch is bad. *Any advice would be
greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Rob

*you can try shorting out the reed switch with a piece of wire and see
if that helps

also check the fuses, to see if there is 24v ac AND DC power to the
mechanism.

Kreed,

Thanks for the reply. *I did check the fuses with a meter and they are
all good. *I also tried a piece of wire across the reed switch to get
it to close and reverse the cycle, but nothing. *I will have to find
the voltage source and see what's going on. *Are there any fuses
mounted under the chassis?

Thanks again,
Rob

No, only in the power *supply - and one in the button bank (but
wouldn't be related to this problem).

What you need to look at is that the motor is an AC motor (unlike
models prior to this) and it only goes one way
The motor is simply stopped by a cam switch once it gets to the play
position, everything then sits totally inert until
the record finishes playing. *At this point, when you press cancel (or
reed sw closes) it activates the relay under the mechanism, via cam sw
3 and a 47 ohm resistor (that would be on the same plate as the
relay.)

I would check and replace cam sw 3, or check its alignment.
If you are going to keep this machine and want it reliable, I would
replace all the cam sws if they are original as they do tend to fail.

Cam sw 3 is notorious for causing problems with the magazine getting
to your selection and then "jumping" the magazine on to the next one.

Glad you got to these before I did. There is also a 100MFD cap w/10K
res. on the mech relay coil that has a carry-over function and can
cause this sort of problem.

See if you can manually turn the transfer motor to jog the micro
switches. *This was the fist model with the 1100series changer (also
the first jukebox I played in 1963) but as I found from later owning
one, they had a lot of improvement to make in the next few years.

Basic problem areas a

Micro switches
Flimsy keyboard slide contacts. They break inside the kbd assembly.
The use of nylon core bobbins in the toggle shifter coil which swell
up and jam the plunger.
Inadequate fusing..Seeburg anyone?
Flimsy record holder and a lack of guide finger to center the record
for return.
Poor quality chrome that peeled in just a few years.

I did a fair number of mods and eliminated 3 microswitches along with
using some later parts. Unfortunately, I didn't think anyone would
ever be interest in these machines and did not keep any notes.

Rob in NYC

Rob,

How can you manually turn the transfer motor? *I've got a bent blade
on the control relay, but when I push the blade in the transfer motor
is getting 28v ac and the small gear on the motor is engaging but
nothing else is moving.

Thanks for you help!!

Rob

Either the mechanism is jammed, or the small gear (first one driven)
is stripped (fibre).

On Jan 28, 7:18*am, kreed wrote:
On Jan 28, 12:44*pm, Rob Blakeslee wrote:





On Dec 7 2010, 9:52*pm, Rob in NYC wrote:

On Dec 7, 9:25*pm, kreed wrote:

On Dec 7, 8:47*pm, Rob Blakeslee wrote:

On Dec 6, 7:50*pm, kreed wrote:

On Dec 7, 7:45*am, Rob Blakeslee wrote:

I just picked aRoweJEL. *It is in great condition, but when I picked
it up the owner powered it on and it appears to be stuck in a play
cycle. *I say that because the turntable is working and the gripper
arm is lowered. *I tried to move the tone arm simulating the record
being completed but nothing happened. *Nothing happens when I hit the
cancel button. *I have the manual and I'm thinking either the cam
switches are messed up or the reed switch is bad. *Any advice would be
greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Rob

*you can try shorting out the reed switch with a piece of wire and see
if that helps

also check the fuses, to see if there is 24v ac AND DC power to the
mechanism.

Kreed,

Thanks for the reply. *I did check the fuses with a meter and they are
all good. *I also tried a piece of wire across the reed switch to get
it to close and reverse the cycle, but nothing. *I will have to find
the voltage source and see what's going on. *Are there any fuses
mounted under the chassis?

Thanks again,
Rob

No, only in the power *supply - and one in the button bank (but
wouldn't be related to this problem).

What you need to look at is that the motor is an AC motor (unlike
models prior to this) and it only goes one way
The motor is simply stopped by a cam switch once it gets to the play
position, everything then sits totally inert until
the record finishes playing. *At this point, when you press cancel (or
reed sw closes) it activates the relay under the mechanism, via cam sw
3 and a 47 ohm resistor (that would be on the same plate as the
relay.)

I would check and replace cam sw 3, or check its alignment.
If you are going to keep this machine and want it reliable, I would
replace all the cam sws if they are original as they do tend to fail.

Cam sw 3 is notorious for causing problems with the magazine getting
to your selection and then "jumping" the magazine on to the next one.

Glad you got to these before I did. There is also a 100MFD cap w/10K
res. on the mech relay coil that has a carry-over function and can
cause this sort of problem.

See if you can manually turn the transfer motor to jog the micro
switches. *This was the fist model with the 1100series changer (also
the first jukebox I played in 1963) but as I found from later owning
one, they had a lot of improvement to make in the next few years.

Basic problem areas a

Micro switches
Flimsy keyboard slide contacts. They break inside the kbd assembly.
The use of nylon core bobbins in the toggle shifter coil which swell
up and jam the plunger.
Inadequate fusing..Seeburg anyone?
Flimsy record holder and a lack of guide finger to center the record
for return.
Poor quality chrome that peeled in just a few years.

I did a fair number of mods and eliminated 3 microswitches along with
using some later parts. Unfortunately, I didn't think anyone would
ever be interest in these machines and did not keep any notes.

Rob in NYC

Rob,

How can you manually turn the transfer motor? *I've got a bent blade
on the control relay, but when I push the blade in the transfer motor
is getting 28v ac and the small gear on the motor is engaging but
nothing else is moving.

Thanks for you help!!

Rob

Either the mechanism is jammed, or the small gear (first one driven)
is stripped (fibre).

Kreed,

Thanks for the reply. I'll take a closer look at the gear tonight. I
haven't been trying to energize the motor too much fearing that I
would strip the gear. If the mechanism is jammed, anything I should
do first?

Rob

On Jan 28, 8:56*am, Rob Blakeslee wrote:
On Jan 28, 7:18*am, kreed wrote:









On Jan 28, 12:44*pm, Rob Blakeslee wrote:

On Dec 7 2010, 9:52*pm, Rob in NYC wrote:

On Dec 7, 9:25*pm, kreed wrote:

On Dec 7, 8:47*pm, Rob Blakeslee wrote:

On Dec 6, 7:50*pm, kreed wrote:

On Dec 7, 7:45*am, Rob Blakeslee wrote:

I just picked aRoweJEL. *It is in great condition, but when I picked
it up the owner powered it on and it appears to be stuck in a play
cycle. *I say that because the turntable is working and the gripper
arm is lowered. *I tried to move the tone arm simulating the record
being completed but nothing happened. *Nothing happens when I hit the
cancel button. *I have the manual and I'm thinking either the cam
switches are messed up or the reed switch is bad. *Any advice would be
greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Rob

*you can try shorting out the reed switch with a piece of wire and see
if that helps

also check the fuses, to see if there is 24v ac AND DC power to the
mechanism.

Kreed,

Thanks for the reply. *I did check the fuses with a meter and they are
all good. *I also tried a piece of wire across the reed switch to get
it to close and reverse the cycle, but nothing. *I will have to find
the voltage source and see what's going on. *Are there any fuses
mounted under the chassis?

Thanks again,
Rob

No, only in the power *supply - and one in the button bank (but
wouldn't be related to this problem).

What you need to look at is that the motor is an AC motor (unlike
models prior to this) and it only goes one way
The motor is simply stopped by a cam switch once it gets to the play
position, everything then sits totally inert until
the record finishes playing. *At this point, when you press cancel (or
reed sw closes) it activates the relay under the mechanism, via cam sw
3 and a 47 ohm resistor (that would be on the same plate as the
relay.)

I would check and replace cam sw 3, or check its alignment.
If you are going to keep this machine and want it reliable, I would
replace all the cam sws if they are original as they do tend to fail.

Cam sw 3 is notorious for causing problems with the magazine getting
to your selection and then "jumping" the magazine on to the next one.

Glad you got to these before I did. There is also a 100MFD cap w/10K
res. on the mech relay coil that has a carry-over function and can
cause this sort of problem.

See if you can manually turn the transfer motor to jog the micro
switches. *This was the fist model with the 1100series changer (also
the first jukebox I played in 1963) but as I found from later owning
one, they had a lot of improvement to make in the next few years.

Basic problem areas a

Micro switches
Flimsy keyboard slide contacts. They break inside the kbd assembly.
The use of nylon core bobbins in the toggle shifter coil which swell
up and jam the plunger.
Inadequate fusing..Seeburg anyone?
Flimsy record holder and a lack of guide finger to center the record
for return.
Poor quality chrome that peeled in just a few years.

I did a fair number of mods and eliminated 3 microswitches along with
using some later parts. Unfortunately, I didn't think anyone would
ever be interest in these machines and did not keep any notes.

Rob in NYC

Rob,

How can you manually turn the transfer motor? *I've got a bent blade
on the control relay, but when I push the blade in the transfer motor
is getting 28v ac and the small gear on the motor is engaging but
nothing else is moving.

Thanks for you help!!

Rob

Either the mechanism is jammed, or the small gear (first one driven)
is stripped (fibre).

Kreed,

Thanks for the reply. *I'll take a closer look at the gear tonight. *I
haven't been trying to energize the motor too much fearing that I
would strip the gear. *If the mechanism is jammed, anything I should
do first?

Rob

Well I unbolted the transfer motor from the mechanism and everything
in the transfer drive seems to move freely. I believe I have a frozen
motor. Following the instructions on pg 79 of the service manual, I
can't even turn the transfer motor using an allen wrench as
described. I also tried moving the crank by hand and it won't budge.
Can the motor be re-built or should I look to buy a used one?

Thanks,
Rob

On Jan 29, 1:10*pm, Rob Blakeslee wrote:
On Jan 28, 8:56*am, Rob Blakeslee wrote:



On Jan 28, 7:18*am, kreed wrote:

On Jan 28, 12:44*pm, Rob Blakeslee wrote:

On Dec 7 2010, 9:52*pm, Rob in NYC wrote:

On Dec 7, 9:25*pm, kreed wrote:

On Dec 7, 8:47*pm, Rob Blakeslee wrote:

On Dec 6, 7:50*pm, kreed wrote:

On Dec 7, 7:45*am, Rob Blakeslee wrote:

I just picked aRoweJEL. *It is in great condition, but when I picked
it up the owner powered it on and it appears to be stuck in a play
cycle. *I say that because the turntable is working and the gripper
arm is lowered. *I tried to move the tone arm simulating the record
being completed but nothing happened. *Nothing happens when I hit the
cancel button. *I have the manual and I'm thinking either the cam
switches are messed up or the reed switch is bad. *Any advice would be
greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Rob

*you can try shorting out the reed switch with a piece of wire and see
if that helps

also check the fuses, to see if there is 24v ac AND DC power to the
mechanism.

Kreed,

Thanks for the reply. *I did check the fuses with a meter and they are
all good. *I also tried a piece of wire across the reed switch to get
it to close and reverse the cycle, but nothing. *I will have to find
the voltage source and see what's going on. *Are there any fuses
mounted under the chassis?

Thanks again,
Rob

No, only in the power *supply - and one in the button bank (but
wouldn't be related to this problem).

What you need to look at is that the motor is an AC motor (unlike
models prior to this) and it only goes one way
The motor is simply stopped by a cam switch once it gets to the play
position, everything then sits totally inert until
the record finishes playing. *At this point, when you press cancel (or
reed sw closes) it activates the relay under the mechanism, via cam sw
3 and a 47 ohm resistor (that would be on the same plate as the
relay.)

I would check and replace cam sw 3, or check its alignment.
If you are going to keep this machine and want it reliable, I would
replace all the cam sws if they are original as they do tend to fail.

Cam sw 3 is notorious for causing problems with the magazine getting
to your selection and then "jumping" the magazine on to the next one.

Glad you got to these before I did. There is also a 100MFD cap w/10K
res. on the mech relay coil that has a carry-over function and can
cause this sort of problem.

See if you can manually turn the transfer motor to jog the micro
switches. *This was the fist model with the 1100series changer (also
the first jukebox I played in 1963) but as I found from later owning
one, they had a lot of improvement to make in the next few years.

Basic problem areas a

Micro switches
Flimsy keyboard slide contacts. They break inside the kbd assembly.
The use of nylon core bobbins in the toggle shifter coil which swell
up and jam the plunger.
Inadequate fusing..Seeburg anyone?
Flimsy record holder and a lack of guide finger to center the record
for return.
Poor quality chrome that peeled in just a few years.

I did a fair number of mods and eliminated 3 microswitches along with
using some later parts. Unfortunately, I didn't think anyone would
ever be interest in these machines and did not keep any notes.

Rob in NYC

Rob,

How can you manually turn the transfer motor? *I've got a bent blade
on the control relay, but when I push the blade in the transfer motor
is getting 28v ac and the small gear on the motor is engaging but
nothing else is moving.

Thanks for you help!!

Rob

Either the mechanism is jammed, or the small gear (first one driven)
is stripped (fibre).

Kreed,

Thanks for the reply. *I'll take a closer look at the gear tonight. *I
haven't been trying to energize the motor too much fearing that I
would strip the gear. *If the mechanism is jammed, anything I should
do first?

Rob

Well I unbolted the transfer motor from the mechanism and everything
in the transfer drive seems to move freely. *I believe I have a frozen
motor. *Following the instructions on pg 79 of the service manual, I
can't even turn the transfer motor using an allen wrench as
described. *I also tried moving the crank by hand and it won't budge.
Can the motor be re-built or should I look to buy a used one?

Thanks,
Rob


Note - There are 2 types of motor I have seen on JAL/JEL machines in
the past
in One (Very rare) type, the gearbox sits horizontally, (front to back
of the mechanism) and the
AC motor core sits on the left rear of it. The gearbox is totally
sealed. I dont know much about these
as I have only seen a couple of them and they never failed. If it has
failed, you might be lucky and find it
is hardened grease inside.


The second type looks different, the motor sits vertically in the mech
and the gearbox
is open, so you can see it working.

If you look carefully, you will see that the first driven gear driven
by the AC motor part is fibre - brown colour,
as compared to the others that are brass coloured. This gear will
likely have teeth stripped off it, and
the first gear has jammed on the remnants of the teeth. You might
have to clean away grease or dirt to
see this.

If this is not the case, you may have dirt or other garbage blocking
teeth on the brass gears, or seized bearings
if the motor has not been used for a long time. These should be easy
to fix.


It can be fixed, but you have to drill out the brass sleeves (on each
corner of the gearbox) to
take it apart. To get the gear made in the 1990s ended up costing
$79.00. You then have to re-insert
what is left of the brass sleeves, and find long thin bolts that will
fit through the centre of the sleeves
and then bolt the 2 sides back together in such a way as for these
bolts not to hit any part of the
mechanism when re-installed.

IIRC these were made by Multi Products in the USA. If you are in the
USA, you might be able to send for
repair or buy an equivalent if not available used. I would try ebay
or a juke parts distributor first.

On 1/29/2011 3:49 AM, kreed wrote:
On Jan 29, 1:10 pm, Rob wrote:
On Jan 28, 8:56 am, Rob wrote:



On Jan 28, 7:18 am, wrote:

On Jan 28, 12:44 pm, Rob wrote:

On Dec 7 2010, 9:52 pm, Rob in wrote:

On Dec 7, 9:25 pm, wrote:

On Dec 7, 8:47 pm, Rob wrote:

On Dec 6, 7:50 pm, wrote:

On Dec 7, 7:45 am, Rob wrote:

I just picked aRoweJEL. It is in great condition, but when I picked
it up the owner powered it on and it appears to be stuck in a play
cycle. I say that because the turntable is working and the gripper
arm is lowered. I tried to move the tone arm simulating the record
being completed but nothing happened. Nothing happens when I hit the
cancel button. I have the manual and I'm thinking either the cam
switches are messed up or the reed switch is bad. Any advice would be
greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Rob

you can try shorting out the reed switch with a piece of wire and see
if that helps

also check the fuses, to see if there is 24v ac AND DC power to the
mechanism.

Kreed,

Thanks for the reply. I did check the fuses with a meter and they are
all good. I also tried a piece of wire across the reed switch to get
it to close and reverse the cycle, but nothing. I will have to find
the voltage source and see what's going on. Are there any fuses
mounted under the chassis?

Thanks again,
Rob

No, only in the power supply - and one in the button bank (but
wouldn't be related to this problem).

What you need to look at is that the motor is an AC motor (unlike
models prior to this) and it only goes one way
The motor is simply stopped by a cam switch once it gets to the play
position, everything then sits totally inert until
the record finishes playing. At this point, when you press cancel (or
reed sw closes) it activates the relay under the mechanism, via cam sw
3 and a 47 ohm resistor (that would be on the same plate as the
relay.)

I would check and replace cam sw 3, or check its alignment.
If you are going to keep this machine and want it reliable, I would
replace all the cam sws if they are original as they do tend to fail.

Cam sw 3 is notorious for causing problems with the magazine getting
to your selection and then "jumping" the magazine on to the next one.

Glad you got to these before I did. There is also a 100MFD cap w/10K
res. on the mech relay coil that has a carry-over function and can
cause this sort of problem.

See if you can manually turn the transfer motor to jog the micro
switches. This was the fist model with the 1100series changer (also
the first jukebox I played in 1963) but as I found from later owning
one, they had a lot of improvement to make in the next few years.

Basic problem areas a

Micro switches
Flimsy keyboard slide contacts. They break inside the kbd assembly.
The use of nylon core bobbins in the toggle shifter coil which swell
up and jam the plunger.
Inadequate fusing..Seeburg anyone?
Flimsy record holder and a lack of guide finger to center the record
for return.
Poor quality chrome that peeled in just a few years.

I did a fair number of mods and eliminated 3 microswitches along with
using some later parts. Unfortunately, I didn't think anyone would
ever be interest in these machines and did not keep any notes.

Rob in NYC

Rob,

How can you manually turn the transfer motor? I've got a bent blade
on the control relay, but when I push the blade in the transfer motor
is getting 28v ac and the small gear on the motor is engaging but
nothing else is moving.

Thanks for you help!!

Rob

Either the mechanism is jammed, or the small gear (first one driven)
is stripped (fibre).

Kreed,

Thanks for the reply. I'll take a closer look at the gear tonight. I
haven't been trying to energize the motor too much fearing that I
would strip the gear. If the mechanism is jammed, anything I should
do first?

Rob

Well I unbolted the transfer motor from the mechanism and everything
in the transfer drive seems to move freely. I believe I have a frozen
motor. Following the instructions on pg 79 of the service manual, I
can't even turn the transfer motor using an allen wrench as
described. I also tried moving the crank by hand and it won't budge.
Can the motor be re-built or should I look to buy a used one?

Thanks,
Rob


Note - There are 2 types of motor I have seen on JAL/JEL machines in
the past
in One (Very rare) type, the gearbox sits horizontally, (front to back
of the mechanism) and the
AC motor core sits on the left rear of it. The gearbox is totally
sealed. I dont know much about these
as I have only seen a couple of them and they never failed. If it has
failed, you might be lucky and find it
is hardened grease inside.


The second type looks different, the motor sits vertically in the mech
and the gearbox
is open, so you can see it working.

If you look carefully, you will see that the first driven gear driven
by the AC motor part is fibre - brown colour,
as compared to the others that are brass coloured. This gear will
likely have teeth stripped off it, and
the first gear has jammed on the remnants of the teeth. You might
have to clean away grease or dirt to
see this.

If this is not the case, you may have dirt or other garbage blocking
teeth on the brass gears, or seized bearings
if the motor has not been used for a long time. These should be easy
to fix.


It can be fixed, but you have to drill out the brass sleeves (on each
corner of the gearbox) to
take it apart. To get the gear made in the 1990s ended up costing
$79.00. You then have to re-insert
what is left of the brass sleeves, and find long thin bolts that will
fit through the centre of the sleeves
and then bolt the 2 sides back together in such a way as for these
bolts not to hit any part of the
mechanism when re-installed.

IIRC these were made by Multi Products in the USA. If you are in the
USA, you might be able to send for
repair or buy an equivalent if not available used. I would try ebay
or a juke parts distributor first.

Long ago I bought many motors direct from Multi Products. Just give
them the spec. # and about $35 and they sent a brand new one, custom
made just 1 of them. Those days are long gone. New owners. I think
they have what turns out to be about a $1000 minimum order. Actually
with the old company I would order the new motor and the (inexpensive)
gear/s to fix the old one. The customer got the new motor and then I
had a rebuilt one in stock.

On Jan 30, 10:36*am, Tony Miklos wrote:
On 1/29/2011 3:49 AM, kreed wrote:



On Jan 29, 1:10 pm, Rob *wrote:
On Jan 28, 8:56 am, Rob *wrote:

On Jan 28, 7:18 am, *wrote:

On Jan 28, 12:44 pm, Rob *wrote:

On Dec 7 2010, 9:52 pm, Rob in *wrote:

On Dec 7, 9:25 pm, *wrote:

On Dec 7, 8:47 pm, Rob *wrote:

On Dec 6, 7:50 pm, *wrote:

On Dec 7, 7:45 am, Rob *wrote:

I just picked aRoweJEL. *It is in great condition, but when I picked
it up the owner powered it on and it appears to be stuck in a play
cycle. *I say that because the turntable is working and the gripper
arm is lowered. *I tried to move the tone arm simulating the record
being completed but nothing happened. *Nothing happens when I hit the
cancel button. *I have the manual and I'm thinking either the cam
switches are messed up or the reed switch is bad. *Any advice would be
greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Rob

* you can try shorting out the reed switch with a piece of wire and see
if that helps

also check the fuses, to see if there is 24v ac AND DC power to the
mechanism.

Kreed,

Thanks for the reply. *I did check the fuses with a meter and they are
all good. *I also tried a piece of wire across the reed switch to get
it to close and reverse the cycle, but nothing. *I will have to find
the voltage source and see what's going on. *Are there any fuses
mounted under the chassis?

Thanks again,
Rob

No, only in the power *supply - and one in the button bank (but
wouldn't be related to this problem).

What you need to look at is that the motor is an AC motor (unlike
models prior to this) and it only goes one way
The motor is simply stopped by a cam switch once it gets to the play
position, everything then sits totally inert until
the record finishes playing. *At this point, when you press cancel (or
reed sw closes) it activates the relay under the mechanism, via cam sw
3 and a 47 ohm resistor (that would be on the same plate as the
relay.)

I would check and replace cam sw 3, or check its alignment.
If you are going to keep this machine and want it reliable, I would
replace all the cam sws if they are original as they do tend to fail.

Cam sw 3 is notorious for causing problems with the magazine getting
to your selection and then "jumping" the magazine on to the next one.

Glad you got to these before I did. There is also a 100MFD cap w/10K
res. on the mech relay coil that has a carry-over function and can
cause this sort of problem.

See if you can manually turn the transfer motor to jog the micro
switches. *This was the fist model with the 1100series changer (also
the first jukebox I played in 1963) but as I found from later owning
one, they had a lot of improvement to make in the next few years.

Basic problem areas a

Micro switches
Flimsy keyboard slide contacts. They break inside the kbd assembly..
The use of nylon core bobbins in the toggle shifter coil which swell
up and jam the plunger.
Inadequate fusing..Seeburg anyone?
Flimsy record holder and a lack of guide finger to center the record
for return.
Poor quality chrome that peeled in just a few years.

I did a fair number of mods and eliminated 3 microswitches along with
using some later parts. Unfortunately, I didn't think anyone would
ever be interest in these machines and did not keep any notes.

Rob in NYC

Rob,

How can you manually turn the transfer motor? *I've got a bent blade
on the control relay, but when I push the blade in the transfer motor
is getting 28v ac and the small gear on the motor is engaging but
nothing else is moving.

Thanks for you help!!

Rob

Either the mechanism is jammed, or the small gear (first one driven)
is stripped (fibre).

Kreed,

Thanks for the reply. *I'll take a closer look at the gear tonight. *I
haven't been trying to energize the motor too much fearing that I
would strip the gear. *If the mechanism is jammed, anything I should
do first?

Rob

Well I unbolted the transfer motor from the mechanism and everything
in the transfer drive seems to move freely. *I believe I have a frozen
motor. *Following the instructions on pg 79 of the service manual, I
can't even turn the transfer motor using an allen wrench as
described. *I also tried moving the crank by hand and it won't budge..
Can the motor be re-built or should I look to buy a used one?

Thanks,
Rob

Note - There are 2 types of motor I have seen on JAL/JEL machines in
the past
in One (Very rare) type, the gearbox sits horizontally, (front to back
of the mechanism) and the
AC motor core sits on the left rear of it. *The gearbox is totally
sealed. *I dont know much about these
as I have only seen a couple of them and they never failed. If it has
failed, you might be lucky and find it
is hardened grease inside.

The second type looks different, the motor sits vertically in the mech
and the gearbox
is open, so you can see it working.

If you look carefully, you will see that the first driven gear driven
by the AC motor part is fibre - brown colour,
as compared to the others that are brass coloured. *This gear will
likely have teeth stripped off it, and
the first gear has jammed on the remnants of the teeth. *You might
have to clean away grease or dirt to
see this.

If this is not the case, you may have dirt or other garbage blocking
teeth on the brass gears, or seized bearings
if the motor has not been used for a long time. *These should be easy
to fix.

It can be fixed, but you have to drill out the brass sleeves (on each
corner of the gearbox) to
take it apart. To get the gear made in the 1990s ended up costing
$79.00. You then have to re-insert
what is left of the brass sleeves, and find long thin bolts that will
fit through the centre of the sleeves
and then bolt the 2 sides back together in such a way as for these
bolts not to hit any part of the
mechanism when re-installed.

IIRC these were made by Multi Products in the USA. If you are in the
USA, you might be able to send for
repair or buy an equivalent if not available used. *I would try ebay
or a juke parts distributor first.

Long ago I bought many motors direct from Multi Products. *Just give
them the spec. # and about $35 and they sent a brand new one, custom
made just 1 of them. *Those days are long gone. *New owners. *I think
they have what turns out to be about a $1000 minimum order. *Actually
with the old company I would order the new motor and the (inexpensive)
gear/s to fix the old one. *The customer got the new motor and then I
had a rebuilt one in stock.


Sounds typical of the modern way of doing business.


Try getting anything made at a metalworks or engineering shop now.
It would have gone up about 500% in
the last decade here (Aus).

Maybe their motors are made in China now, and they can only bring
in /
have made a minimum of a container load at once. (or something like
that) ?

Looking on their website, they do not seem to offer a motor that looks
like
the ones used in amusements and jukeboxes for the last 50 or so years.

If things in the USA are anything like here, there are probably very
few local manufacturers
of products that even USE their motors now as almost all manufacturing
has been outsourced to China.

----------------------
While on this subject,
One thing I have wondered for many years is the huge effect that the
use of solid state technology
on companies like these. Until the late 1970's, every pinball machine
had at least 1 score motor.

Before video games, every US made EM "arcade game" or "gun Game" often
had many of these motors

Until digital, every AMI juke had at least 2 motors of these type.

The number of motors that (pre solid state) used to be used in
"mechanical logic" devices such as
light flashers, timers, traffic light controllers etc etc etc must
have been enormous.

Similarly, makers of contactors, relays, uniselectors, steppers etc
must have also taken a huge hit to their
bottom line.

On Jan 29, 3:49*am, kreed wrote:
On Jan 29, 1:10*pm, Rob Blakeslee wrote:





On Jan 28, 8:56*am, Rob Blakeslee wrote:

On Jan 28, 7:18*am, kreed wrote:

On Jan 28, 12:44*pm, Rob Blakeslee wrote:

On Dec 7 2010, 9:52*pm, Rob in NYC wrote:

On Dec 7, 9:25*pm, kreed wrote:

On Dec 7, 8:47*pm, Rob Blakeslee wrote:

On Dec 6, 7:50*pm, kreed wrote:

On Dec 7, 7:45*am, Rob Blakeslee wrote:

I just picked aRoweJEL. *It is in great condition, but when I picked
it up the owner powered it on and it appears to be stuck in a play
cycle. *I say that because the turntable is working and the gripper
arm is lowered. *I tried to move the tone arm simulating the record
being completed but nothing happened. *Nothing happens when I hit the
cancel button. *I have the manual and I'm thinking either the cam
switches are messed up or the reed switch is bad. *Any advice would be
greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Rob

*you can try shorting out the reed switch with a piece of wire and see
if that helps

also check the fuses, to see if there is 24v ac AND DC power to the
mechanism.

Kreed,

Thanks for the reply. *I did check the fuses with a meter and they are
all good. *I also tried a piece of wire across the reed switch to get
it to close and reverse the cycle, but nothing. *I will have to find
the voltage source and see what's going on. *Are there any fuses
mounted under the chassis?

Thanks again,
Rob

No, only in the power *supply - and one in the button bank (but
wouldn't be related to this problem).

What you need to look at is that the motor is an AC motor (unlike
models prior to this) and it only goes one way
The motor is simply stopped by a cam switch once it gets to the play
position, everything then sits totally inert until
the record finishes playing. *At this point, when you press cancel (or
reed sw closes) it activates the relay under the mechanism, via cam sw
3 and a 47 ohm resistor (that would be on the same plate as the
relay.)

I would check and replace cam sw 3, or check its alignment.
If you are going to keep this machine and want it reliable, I would
replace all the cam sws if they are original as they do tend to fail.

Cam sw 3 is notorious for causing problems with the magazine getting
to your selection and then "jumping" the magazine on to the next one.

Glad you got to these before I did. There is also a 100MFD cap w/10K
res. on the mech relay coil that has a carry-over function and can
cause this sort of problem.

See if you can manually turn the transfer motor to jog the micro
switches. *This was the fist model with the 1100series changer (also
the first jukebox I played in 1963) but as I found from later owning
one, they had a lot of improvement to make in the next few years.

Basic problem areas a

Micro switches
Flimsy keyboard slide contacts. They break inside the kbd assembly.
The use of nylon core bobbins in the toggle shifter coil which swell
up and jam the plunger.
Inadequate fusing..Seeburg anyone?
Flimsy record holder and a lack of guide finger to center the record
for return.
Poor quality chrome that peeled in just a few years.

I did a fair number of mods and eliminated 3 microswitches along with
using some later parts. Unfortunately, I didn't think anyone would
ever be interest in these machines and did not keep any notes.

Rob in NYC

Rob,

How can you manually turn the transfer motor? *I've got a bent blade
on the control relay, but when I push the blade in the transfer motor
is getting 28v ac and the small gear on the motor is engaging but
nothing else is moving.

Thanks for you help!!

Rob

Either the mechanism is jammed, or the small gear (first one driven)
is stripped (fibre).

Kreed,

Thanks for the reply. *I'll take a closer look at the gear tonight. *I
haven't been trying to energize the motor too much fearing that I
would strip the gear. *If the mechanism is jammed, anything I should
do first?

Rob

Well I unbolted the transfer motor from the mechanism and everything
in the transfer drive seems to move freely. *I believe I have a frozen
motor. *Following the instructions on pg 79 of the service manual, I
can't even turn the transfer motor using an allen wrench as
described. *I also tried moving the crank by hand and it won't budge.
Can the motor be re-built or should I look to buy a used one?

Thanks,
Rob

Note - There are 2 types of motor I have seen on JAL/JEL machines in
the past
in One (Very rare) type, the gearbox sits horizontally, (front to back
of the mechanism) and the
AC motor core sits on the left rear of it. *The gearbox is totally
sealed. *I dont know much about these
as I have only seen a couple of them and they never failed. If it has
failed, you might be lucky and find it
is hardened grease inside.

The second type looks different, the motor sits vertically in the mech
and the gearbox
is open, so you can see it working.

If you look carefully, you will see that the first driven gear driven
by the AC motor part is fibre - brown colour,
as compared to the others that are brass coloured. *This gear will
likely have teeth stripped off it, and
the first gear has jammed on the remnants of the teeth. *You might
have to clean away grease or dirt to
see this.

If this is not the case, you may have dirt or other garbage blocking
teeth on the brass gears, or seized bearings
if the motor has not been used for a long time. *These should be easy
to fix.

It can be fixed, but you have to drill out the brass sleeves (on each
corner of the gearbox) to
take it apart. To get the gear made in the 1990s ended up costing
$79.00. You then have to re-insert
what is left of the brass sleeves, and find long thin bolts that will
fit through the centre of the sleeves
and then bolt the 2 sides back together in such a way as for these
bolts not to hit any part of the
mechanism when re-installed.

IIRC these were made by Multi Products in the USA. If you are in the
USA, you might be able to send for
repair or buy an equivalent if not available used. *I would try ebay
or a juke parts distributor first.

Just a quick update. I was able to get the gearbox freed up by
putting my heat gun on it for a while. I don't think it is 100%, but
it is operating and grabbing records. Thanks for all your help. Now
I need to troubleshoot why I'm not getting any sound.

On Feb 1, 2:36*am, Rob Blakeslee wrote:
On Jan 29, 3:49*am, kreed wrote:



On Jan 29, 1:10*pm, Rob Blakeslee wrote:

On Jan 28, 8:56*am, Rob Blakeslee wrote:

On Jan 28, 7:18*am, kreed wrote:

On Jan 28, 12:44*pm, Rob Blakeslee wrote:

On Dec 7 2010, 9:52*pm, Rob in NYC wrote:

On Dec 7, 9:25*pm, kreed wrote:

On Dec 7, 8:47*pm, Rob Blakeslee wrote:

On Dec 6, 7:50*pm, kreed wrote:

On Dec 7, 7:45*am, Rob Blakeslee wrote:

I just picked aRoweJEL. *It is in great condition, but when I picked
it up the owner powered it on and it appears to be stuck in a play
cycle. *I say that because the turntable is working and the gripper
arm is lowered. *I tried to move the tone arm simulating the record
being completed but nothing happened. *Nothing happens when I hit the
cancel button. *I have the manual and I'm thinking either the cam
switches are messed up or the reed switch is bad. *Any advice would be
greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Rob

*you can try shorting out the reed switch with a piece of wire and see
if that helps

also check the fuses, to see if there is 24v ac AND DC power to the
mechanism.

Kreed,

Thanks for the reply. *I did check the fuses with a meter and they are
all good. *I also tried a piece of wire across the reed switch to get
it to close and reverse the cycle, but nothing. *I will have to find
the voltage source and see what's going on. *Are there any fuses
mounted under the chassis?

Thanks again,
Rob

No, only in the power *supply - and one in the button bank (but
wouldn't be related to this problem).

What you need to look at is that the motor is an AC motor (unlike
models prior to this) and it only goes one way
The motor is simply stopped by a cam switch once it gets to the play
position, everything then sits totally inert until
the record finishes playing. *At this point, when you press cancel (or
reed sw closes) it activates the relay under the mechanism, via cam sw
3 and a 47 ohm resistor (that would be on the same plate as the
relay.)

I would check and replace cam sw 3, or check its alignment.
If you are going to keep this machine and want it reliable, I would
replace all the cam sws if they are original as they do tend to fail.

Cam sw 3 is notorious for causing problems with the magazine getting
to your selection and then "jumping" the magazine on to the next one.

Glad you got to these before I did. There is also a 100MFD cap w/10K
res. on the mech relay coil that has a carry-over function and can
cause this sort of problem.

See if you can manually turn the transfer motor to jog the micro
switches. *This was the fist model with the 1100series changer (also
the first jukebox I played in 1963) but as I found from later owning
one, they had a lot of improvement to make in the next few years.

Basic problem areas a

Micro switches
Flimsy keyboard slide contacts. They break inside the kbd assembly.
The use of nylon core bobbins in the toggle shifter coil which swell
up and jam the plunger.
Inadequate fusing..Seeburg anyone?
Flimsy record holder and a lack of guide finger to center the record
for return.
Poor quality chrome that peeled in just a few years.

I did a fair number of mods and eliminated 3 microswitches along with
using some later parts. Unfortunately, I didn't think anyone would
ever be interest in these machines and did not keep any notes..

Rob in NYC

Rob,

How can you manually turn the transfer motor? *I've got a bent blade
on the control relay, but when I push the blade in the transfer motor
is getting 28v ac and the small gear on the motor is engaging but
nothing else is moving.

Thanks for you help!!

Rob

Either the mechanism is jammed, or the small gear (first one driven)
is stripped (fibre).

Kreed,

Thanks for the reply. *I'll take a closer look at the gear tonight. *I
haven't been trying to energize the motor too much fearing that I
would strip the gear. *If the mechanism is jammed, anything I should
do first?

Rob

Well I unbolted the transfer motor from the mechanism and everything
in the transfer drive seems to move freely. *I believe I have a frozen
motor. *Following the instructions on pg 79 of the service manual, I
can't even turn the transfer motor using an allen wrench as
described. *I also tried moving the crank by hand and it won't budge.
Can the motor be re-built or should I look to buy a used one?

Thanks,
Rob

Note - There are 2 types of motor I have seen on JAL/JEL machines in
the past
in One (Very rare) type, the gearbox sits horizontally, (front to back
of the mechanism) and the
AC motor core sits on the left rear of it. *The gearbox is totally
sealed. *I dont know much about these
as I have only seen a couple of them and they never failed. If it has
failed, you might be lucky and find it
is hardened grease inside.

The second type looks different, the motor sits vertically in the mech
and the gearbox
is open, so you can see it working.

If you look carefully, you will see that the first driven gear driven
by the AC motor part is fibre - brown colour,
as compared to the others that are brass coloured. *This gear will
likely have teeth stripped off it, and
the first gear has jammed on the remnants of the teeth. *You might
have to clean away grease or dirt to
see this.

If this is not the case, you may have dirt or other garbage blocking
teeth on the brass gears, or seized bearings
if the motor has not been used for a long time. *These should be easy
to fix.

It can be fixed, but you have to drill out the brass sleeves (on each
corner of the gearbox) to
take it apart. To get the gear made in the 1990s ended up costing
$79.00. You then have to re-insert
what is left of the brass sleeves, and find long thin bolts that will
fit through the centre of the sleeves
and then bolt the 2 sides back together in such a way as for these
bolts not to hit any part of the
mechanism when re-installed.

IIRC these were made by Multi Products in the USA. If you are in the
USA, you might be able to send for
repair or buy an equivalent if not available used. *I would try ebay
or a juke parts distributor first.

Just a quick update. *I was able to get the gearbox freed up by
putting my heat gun on it for a while. *I don't think it is 100%, but
it is operating and grabbing records. *Thanks for all your help. *Now
I need to troubleshoot why I'm not getting any sound.

Might want to clean all the grease out and re-lube as it sounds like
it had gone hard
We soak them in dry cleaning fluid, and scrub all areas (such as gear
teeth) carefully with a toothbrush
After they dry out, you can re-grease them, don't forget to add oil to
the wicks on either side of the housing.

(they are oval shaped plates at the end near the motor coil - and have
a small hole in them where you put the oil).