1824/2 Quarter: Values clarification exercise

This auction for an 1824/2 (all 1824s are overdates) U.S. quarter closed
today at $643:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...1009&rd=1&rd=1

That is quite typical of what this coin has been bringing for over three
years now.

Here are some published values for a VG example of this date:

Coin Dealer Newsletter (Greysheet): $180 (dealer wholesale)

NGC Numismedia price guide online: $220

2008 Redbook: $225

Coin Prices (Krause Publications): $360

PCGS price guide online: $775 (interpolated, as there is no VG column)

Coin World's Coin Values: $1000 (jumped suddenly to that level from $135 on
2/5/2007)

What conclusions can we draw from this that are bankable?

James

On Jul 22, 11:11 am, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com
wrote:
This auction for an 1824/2 (all 1824s are overdates) U.S. quarter closed
today at $643:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...pagename=STRK%...

That is quite typical of what this coin has been bringing for over three
years now.

Here are some published values for a VG example of this date:

Coin Dealer Newsletter (Greysheet): $180 (dealer wholesale)

NGC Numismedia price guide online: $220

2008 Redbook: $225

Coin Prices (Krause Publications): $360

PCGS price guide online: $775 (interpolated, as there is no VG column)

Coin World's Coin Values: $1000 (jumped suddenly to that level from $135 on
2/5/2007)

What conclusions can we draw from this that are bankable?

James

seems to be a lot like sport cards is some ways, once you get past the
price for the content of precious metal, the collecting value is what
someone is willing to pay at that time and for whatever reason. i have
seen 1996 silver eagles selling for as low as $45 and up because of
it's low mintage so it would take quite a jump in the price of silver
for the recent increases in silver to be affecting a coin that is
shown in price guides to be $24. it's all about what someone will pay.
on another note,all of this grading is very confusing to us we are new
to this hobby. which company is the collectors standard? like beckett
is in sport cards.

In this case there's an explanation that makes sense. Bust quarters
are in greatly increeased demand, for at least two reasons: the
formation of the Bust Quarters Collectors Society, a subgroup of the
John Reich Collectors Society, and the upcoming publication of TWO new
references on the Bust quarter series. One is a total revision and
updating of Browning/Breen, the other a detailed die state study.
Many coins sold in Heritage's Jules Reiver sale in January 2006,
thought to be overpriced at the time, are relative bargains now.

Denis Loring


On Jul 22, 4:27?pm, krs4b wrote:
On Jul 22, 11:11 am, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com
wrote:





This auction for an 1824/2 (all 1824s are overdates) U.S. quarter closed
today at $643:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...pagename=STRK%...

That is quite typical of what this coin has been bringing for over three
years now.

Here are some published values for a VG example of this date:

Coin Dealer Newsletter (Greysheet): $180 (dealer wholesale)

NGC Numismedia price guide online: $220

2008 Redbook: $225

Coin Prices (Krause Publications): $360

PCGS price guide online: $775 (interpolated, as there is no VG column)

Coin World's Coin Values: $1000 (jumped suddenly to that level from $135 on
2/5/2007)

What conclusions can we draw from this that are bankable?

James

seems to be a lot like sport cards is some ways, once you get past the
price for the content of precious metal, the collecting value is what
someone is willing to pay at that time and for whatever reason. i have
seen 1996 silver eagles selling for as low as $45 and up because of
it's low mintage so it would take quite a jump in the price of silver
for the recent increases in silver to be affecting a coin that is
shown in price guides to be $24. it's all about what someone will pay.
on another note,all of this grading is very confusing to us we are new
to this hobby. which company is the collectors standard? like beckett
is in sport cards.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"Denis Loring" wrote in message
ups.com...
In this case there's an explanation that makes sense. Bust quarters
are in greatly increeased demand, for at least two reasons: the
formation of the Bust Quarters Collectors Society, a subgroup of the
John Reich Collectors Society, and the upcoming publication of TWO new
references on the Bust quarter series. One is a total revision and
updating of Browning/Breen, the other a detailed die state study.
Many coins sold in Heritage's Jules Reiver sale in January 2006,
thought to be overpriced at the time, are relative bargains now.

Denis, I can appreciate the fact that the prices are up, nor do I have a
problem with your explanation for it. Please note that I am not deploring
that fact, but rather that price guides are all over the board for this
coin, producing a range of almost 5X from low to high. If a schlub like me,
up here in North Lugburz, knows what the market value of it is, and if
bidders on eBay know what it is, why do the market analysts who get paid to
produce the price guides not know it?

James

"krs4b" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jul 22, 11:11 am, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com
wrote:
This auction for an 1824/2 (all 1824s are overdates) U.S. quarter closed
today at $643:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...pagename=STRK%...

That is quite typical of what this coin has been bringing for over three
years now.

Here are some published values for a VG example of this date:

Coin Dealer Newsletter (Greysheet): $180 (dealer wholesale)

NGC Numismedia price guide online: $220

2008 Redbook: $225

Coin Prices (Krause Publications): $360

PCGS price guide online: $775 (interpolated, as there is no VG column)

Coin World's Coin Values: $1000 (jumped suddenly to that level from $135
on
2/5/2007)

What conclusions can we draw from this that are bankable?

James

seems to be a lot like sport cards is some ways, once you get past the
price for the content of precious metal, the collecting value is what
someone is willing to pay at that time and for whatever reason. i have
seen 1996 silver eagles selling for as low as $45 and up because of
it's low mintage so it would take quite a jump in the price of silver
for the recent increases in silver to be affecting a coin that is
shown in price guides to be $24. it's all about what someone will pay.
on another note,all of this grading is very confusing to us we are new
to this hobby. which company is the collectors standard? like beckett
is in sport cards.

When a newcomer to the hobby plunks down good money for a price guide or
price guides, he has every right to expect it/them to be reasonably accurate
and current. He should not be faced with multiple sources who quote the
price of this coin over a range such as we see. The people who produce the
guides supposedly are professional numismatists whom I expect to stay on top
of these things, not say all of a sudden, "Shazam, that coin went way up,
let's change the value from $135 to $1000 in one fell swoop." Zut alors!

James

On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 18:34:10 -0500, "Mr. Jaggers"
lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:


"krs4b" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jul 22, 11:11 am, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com
wrote:
This auction for an 1824/2 (all 1824s are overdates) U.S. quarter closed
today at $643:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...pagename=STRK%...

That is quite typical of what this coin has been bringing for over three
years now.

Here are some published values for a VG example of this date:

Coin Dealer Newsletter (Greysheet): $180 (dealer wholesale)

NGC Numismedia price guide online: $220

2008 Redbook: $225

Coin Prices (Krause Publications): $360

PCGS price guide online: $775 (interpolated, as there is no VG column)

Coin World's Coin Values: $1000 (jumped suddenly to that level from $135
on
2/5/2007)

What conclusions can we draw from this that are bankable?

James

seems to be a lot like sport cards is some ways, once you get past the
price for the content of precious metal, the collecting value is what
someone is willing to pay at that time and for whatever reason. i have
seen 1996 silver eagles selling for as low as $45 and up because of
it's low mintage so it would take quite a jump in the price of silver
for the recent increases in silver to be affecting a coin that is
shown in price guides to be $24. it's all about what someone will pay.
on another note,all of this grading is very confusing to us we are new
to this hobby. which company is the collectors standard? like beckett
is in sport cards.

When a newcomer to the hobby plunks down good money for a price guide or
price guides, he has every right to expect it/them to be reasonably accurate
and current. He should not be faced with multiple sources who quote the
price of this coin over a range such as we see. The people who produce the
guides supposedly are professional numismatists whom I expect to stay on top
of these things, not say all of a sudden, "Shazam, that coin went way up,
let's change the value from $135 to $1000 in one fell swoop." Zut alors!

James

Let me put my two cents in (probably all it's worth). The published
Rarity Rating for the 1824 Capped Bust Quarter has always been an R3.
This means it is scarce, but not rare. I believe that the price
run-up was the direct result of my not buying a Fine example for $110
a few years ago. Instead, I advised the dealer to offer it on eBay.
He did, and that coin brought $192. I was pleased that I could help.
I have since worn out my foot kicking myself for not buying that coin.
I have since concluded that this coin is harder to find than
previously thought. I also noticed that the 1815 has undergone a
similar increase in price, but nowhere as much as the 1824. The 1815
is not even scarce. What the two dates have in common, however, is
that each has only one die marriage, so collectors don't need to worry
about whether their coin is a rare variety or not. I had been puzzled
for some time by the skyrocketing prices for the 1824. I have now
settled for the proposition that it is probably closer to an R5 than
an R3. And is hard to find. And is missing from a lot of date
collections. And is perceived to be expensive- a self fulfilling
approach to pricing, for both buyers and sellers.
HTH. Aram.

"Aram H. Haroutunian" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 18:34:10 -0500, "Mr. Jaggers"
lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:


"krs4b" wrote in message
roups.com...
On Jul 22, 11:11 am, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com
wrote:
This auction for an 1824/2 (all 1824s are overdates) U.S. quarter
closed
today at $643:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...pagename=STRK%...

That is quite typical of what this coin has been bringing for over
three
years now.

Here are some published values for a VG example of this date:

Coin Dealer Newsletter (Greysheet): $180 (dealer wholesale)

NGC Numismedia price guide online: $220

2008 Redbook: $225

Coin Prices (Krause Publications): $360

PCGS price guide online: $775 (interpolated, as there is no VG column)

Coin World's Coin Values: $1000 (jumped suddenly to that level from
$135
on
2/5/2007)

What conclusions can we draw from this that are bankable?

James

seems to be a lot like sport cards is some ways, once you get past the
price for the content of precious metal, the collecting value is what
someone is willing to pay at that time and for whatever reason. i have
seen 1996 silver eagles selling for as low as $45 and up because of
it's low mintage so it would take quite a jump in the price of silver
for the recent increases in silver to be affecting a coin that is
shown in price guides to be $24. it's all about what someone will pay.
on another note,all of this grading is very confusing to us we are new
to this hobby. which company is the collectors standard? like beckett
is in sport cards.

When a newcomer to the hobby plunks down good money for a price guide or
price guides, he has every right to expect it/them to be reasonably
accurate
and current. He should not be faced with multiple sources who quote the
price of this coin over a range such as we see. The people who produce
the
guides supposedly are professional numismatists whom I expect to stay on
top
of these things, not say all of a sudden, "Shazam, that coin went way up,
let's change the value from $135 to $1000 in one fell swoop." Zut alors!

James

Let me put my two cents in (probably all it's worth). The published
Rarity Rating for the 1824 Capped Bust Quarter has always been an R3.
This means it is scarce, but not rare. I believe that the price
run-up was the direct result of my not buying a Fine example for $110
a few years ago. Instead, I advised the dealer to offer it on eBay.
He did, and that coin brought $192. I was pleased that I could help.
I have since worn out my foot kicking myself for not buying that coin.
I have since concluded that this coin is harder to find than
previously thought. I also noticed that the 1815 has undergone a
similar increase in price, but nowhere as much as the 1824. The 1815
is not even scarce. What the two dates have in common, however, is
that each has only one die marriage, so collectors don't need to worry
about whether their coin is a rare variety or not. I had been puzzled
for some time by the skyrocketing prices for the 1824. I have now
settled for the proposition that it is probably closer to an R5 than
an R3. And is hard to find. And is missing from a lot of date
collections. And is perceived to be expensive- a self fulfilling
approach to pricing, for both buyers and sellers.
HTH. Aram.

Ah, so it's all YOUR fault! 8)

There is also the rumor making the rounds that a certain dealer has been
quietly buying up every 1822 and 1824 quarter that he sees, in order to be
the "market maker" on them.

In addition to that, I have personally run across an eBayer who openly
states that he is doing that, too, along with 1822 dimes and a few other
scarce dates.

I have noticed the difficulty of the 1815 quarter, as you have. But none of
this accounts for the wide discrepancy in price guide levels. Again, I must
observe that if you and I know that all this is happening, then why do not
the authors of the price guides know it even better?

James

On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 04:55:47 -0500, "Mr. Jaggers"
lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:


"Aram H. Haroutunian" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 18:34:10 -0500, "Mr. Jaggers"
lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:


"krs4b" wrote in message
groups.com...
On Jul 22, 11:11 am, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com
wrote:
This auction for an 1824/2 (all 1824s are overdates) U.S. quarter
closed
today at $643:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...pagename=STRK%...

That is quite typical of what this coin has been bringing for over
three
years now.

Here are some published values for a VG example of this date:

Coin Dealer Newsletter (Greysheet): $180 (dealer wholesale)

NGC Numismedia price guide online: $220

2008 Redbook: $225

Coin Prices (Krause Publications): $360

PCGS price guide online: $775 (interpolated, as there is no VG column)

Coin World's Coin Values: $1000 (jumped suddenly to that level from
$135
on
2/5/2007)

What conclusions can we draw from this that are bankable?

James

seems to be a lot like sport cards is some ways, once you get past the
price for the content of precious metal, the collecting value is what
someone is willing to pay at that time and for whatever reason. i have
seen 1996 silver eagles selling for as low as $45 and up because of
it's low mintage so it would take quite a jump in the price of silver
for the recent increases in silver to be affecting a coin that is
shown in price guides to be $24. it's all about what someone will pay.
on another note,all of this grading is very confusing to us we are new
to this hobby. which company is the collectors standard? like beckett
is in sport cards.

When a newcomer to the hobby plunks down good money for a price guide or
price guides, he has every right to expect it/them to be reasonably
accurate
and current. He should not be faced with multiple sources who quote the
price of this coin over a range such as we see. The people who produce
the
guides supposedly are professional numismatists whom I expect to stay on
top
of these things, not say all of a sudden, "Shazam, that coin went way up,
let's change the value from $135 to $1000 in one fell swoop." Zut alors!

James

Let me put my two cents in (probably all it's worth). The published
Rarity Rating for the 1824 Capped Bust Quarter has always been an R3.
This means it is scarce, but not rare. I believe that the price
run-up was the direct result of my not buying a Fine example for $110
a few years ago. Instead, I advised the dealer to offer it on eBay.
He did, and that coin brought $192. I was pleased that I could help.
I have since worn out my foot kicking myself for not buying that coin.
I have since concluded that this coin is harder to find than
previously thought. I also noticed that the 1815 has undergone a
similar increase in price, but nowhere as much as the 1824. The 1815
is not even scarce. What the two dates have in common, however, is
that each has only one die marriage, so collectors don't need to worry
about whether their coin is a rare variety or not. I had been puzzled
for some time by the skyrocketing prices for the 1824. I have now
settled for the proposition that it is probably closer to an R5 than
an R3. And is hard to find. And is missing from a lot of date
collections. And is perceived to be expensive- a self fulfilling
approach to pricing, for both buyers and sellers.
HTH. Aram.

Ah, so it's all YOUR fault! 8)

There is also the rumor making the rounds that a certain dealer has been
quietly buying up every 1822 and 1824 quarter that he sees, in order to be
the "market maker" on them.

In addition to that, I have personally run across an eBayer who openly
states that he is doing that, too, along with 1822 dimes and a few other
scarce dates.

I have noticed the difficulty of the 1815 quarter, as you have. But none of
this accounts for the wide discrepancy in price guide levels. Again, I must
observe that if you and I know that all this is happening, then why do not
the authors of the price guides know it even better?

James

The first thing that comes to mind is that the buyers have the power
to suppress prices through the deft manipulation of the people in the
price guide business. Also, if the price setters are the market
makers and control the available supply, they would want to remain in
the accumulation mode for as long as possible. IOW, the listed
prices, all over the place as they are, are part of the larger scam
for unaware sellers to be ripped. That's what it looks like to me.
Of course, I am guessing and could be absolutely wrong.
Aram.

"Aram H. Haroutunian" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 04:55:47 -0500, "Mr. Jaggers"
lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:


"Aram H. Haroutunian" wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 18:34:10 -0500, "Mr. Jaggers"
lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:


"krs4b" wrote in message
egroups.com...
On Jul 22, 11:11 am, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com
wrote:
This auction for an 1824/2 (all 1824s are overdates) U.S. quarter
closed
today at $643:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...pagename=STRK%...

That is quite typical of what this coin has been bringing for over
three
years now.

Here are some published values for a VG example of this date:

Coin Dealer Newsletter (Greysheet): $180 (dealer wholesale)

NGC Numismedia price guide online: $220

2008 Redbook: $225

Coin Prices (Krause Publications): $360

PCGS price guide online: $775 (interpolated, as there is no VG
column)

Coin World's Coin Values: $1000 (jumped suddenly to that level from
$135
on
2/5/2007)

What conclusions can we draw from this that are bankable?

James

seems to be a lot like sport cards is some ways, once you get past the
price for the content of precious metal, the collecting value is what
someone is willing to pay at that time and for whatever reason. i have
seen 1996 silver eagles selling for as low as $45 and up because of
it's low mintage so it would take quite a jump in the price of silver
for the recent increases in silver to be affecting a coin that is
shown in price guides to be $24. it's all about what someone will pay.
on another note,all of this grading is very confusing to us we are new
to this hobby. which company is the collectors standard? like beckett
is in sport cards.

When a newcomer to the hobby plunks down good money for a price guide or
price guides, he has every right to expect it/them to be reasonably
accurate
and current. He should not be faced with multiple sources who quote the
price of this coin over a range such as we see. The people who produce
the
guides supposedly are professional numismatists whom I expect to stay on
top
of these things, not say all of a sudden, "Shazam, that coin went way
up,
let's change the value from $135 to $1000 in one fell swoop." Zut
alors!

James

Let me put my two cents in (probably all it's worth). The published
Rarity Rating for the 1824 Capped Bust Quarter has always been an R3.
This means it is scarce, but not rare. I believe that the price
run-up was the direct result of my not buying a Fine example for $110
a few years ago. Instead, I advised the dealer to offer it on eBay.
He did, and that coin brought $192. I was pleased that I could help.
I have since worn out my foot kicking myself for not buying that coin.
I have since concluded that this coin is harder to find than
previously thought. I also noticed that the 1815 has undergone a
similar increase in price, but nowhere as much as the 1824. The 1815
is not even scarce. What the two dates have in common, however, is
that each has only one die marriage, so collectors don't need to worry
about whether their coin is a rare variety or not. I had been puzzled
for some time by the skyrocketing prices for the 1824. I have now
settled for the proposition that it is probably closer to an R5 than
an R3. And is hard to find. And is missing from a lot of date
collections. And is perceived to be expensive- a self fulfilling
approach to pricing, for both buyers and sellers.
HTH. Aram.

Ah, so it's all YOUR fault! 8)

There is also the rumor making the rounds that a certain dealer has been
quietly buying up every 1822 and 1824 quarter that he sees, in order to be
the "market maker" on them.

In addition to that, I have personally run across an eBayer who openly
states that he is doing that, too, along with 1822 dimes and a few other
scarce dates.

I have noticed the difficulty of the 1815 quarter, as you have. But none
of
this accounts for the wide discrepancy in price guide levels. Again, I
must
observe that if you and I know that all this is happening, then why do not
the authors of the price guides know it even better?

James

The first thing that comes to mind is that the buyers have the power
to suppress prices through the deft manipulation of the people in the
price guide business. Also, if the price setters are the market
makers and control the available supply, they would want to remain in
the accumulation mode for as long as possible. IOW, the listed
prices, all over the place as they are, are part of the larger scam
for unaware sellers to be ripped. That's what it looks like to me.
Of course, I am guessing and could be absolutely wrong.

I hope you are, but I've not heard anything more plausible. Thanks for your
thoughts.

James