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e-Bay sale: Wow what a problem customer
Folks I am in a tough bind here. As often is the case both sides have some
foothold in this claim but I feel that this guy is being very unreasonable. I have maintained professionalism thus far but now this guy is threatening my PayPal account. The background: I was out of the country when an auction ended. I notified the buyer within 48 hours of the auction ending that I was out of the country and would return on May 1. Upon returning I would mail his item ASAP. I received no reply at that time. I return to the country on May 1. On May 2, in the evening, I package this guys item up. On May 3 I mailed the item right away in the morning. Upon returning home that evening I find an e-mail from that was sent on around 10:30 PM May 2 saying he wants to back out of the sale if the items have not shipped since he has a customer waiting on the items and has another venue to purchase the same item. There is a follow up e-mail at 11:09 AM on May 3 with the same buyer stating that he need the items shipped ASAP as another customer is waiting on them. Then I get an e-mail on May 3 with him wanting to back out of the sale. In each e-mail he points to text in my auction which states that "Checks must first clear with the bank before the item is shipped. PayPal and money orders ship immediately". On the May 3 e-mail he states that since the items were not sent as stated in the listing that he wants to back out. As a somewhat unrelated side note his e-mails are filled with spelling errors. I e-mail the seller explaining that i shipped the previous day (a mistake in verbiage, unfortuately as you will soon see). On May 5 he receives the items and sends me this e-mail: "hi patrick, i find it very perculuier that you stated you shipped out day before you replied to my email, yet postage was paid/stamped, and initiated on the 3rd from your post office. this is very disturbing, again as i had asked since you didn't expidite the quarters to me as was stated in your listing, and i had to make other arraingements for my customer, due to this. i had made a promise to my customer, and needed to follow through, to make a sale and keep a customer for future business. i don't need these quarters now, and am not happy with how this worked out. you made a promis commitment to ship out immeadiately on your auction listing, and i bid accordingly to your promise/commitment. we need to resolve this matter in a hopefully healthy manner, what do you propose????? i await a reply, and hopefully healthy solution, one we can both feel comfortable with." My reply to him: "I stated at the time that the listing ended that I would not be able to ship until after May 1. You made no indication whatsoever at the time that you needed the shipment to be expedited. Had I known there was an urgent need to ship before that I could have contacted someone in the states to handle the situation for me. There was never a request to expedite until May 2 - one day after I informed you that I would return. By that time the order had been packaged and it was sent before I read your e-mail. All my auctions come with at least a 14 day return privilege, from the time the goods were received, no questions asked as long as you have not opened the boxes on them. Simply send the quarters back and I will issue a refund check for the purchase amount less postage, e-Bay/PayPal fees, and insurance." Just before midnight on the 5th of May I get another e-mail from the guy: "you made the statement concerning not shipping till beginning of may via email after the auction had ended, and stated you were out of country. how would i have known that other arraingments could be made with you being away???? i am not the "amazing cresken". the statement i am initially referring to, and what i went by in making my decision to purchase was what you have listed in your auction page fore these coins (located at the bottom of your listing) stating this verbetim(actually copy/pasted your shipping instructions from listing: Seller's payment instructions PayPal, Money Orders, and Personal Checks are accepted. PayPal is mandatory for international orders. PayPal and Money Orders ship immediately. Personal Checks must clear before item is shipped. I do offer combined shipping for multiple auctions won within 48 hours. Additional items are just $1 more. If paying by check or money order you may combine auctions that finish within a 7 day period. PAYPAL AND MONEY ORDERS SHIP IMMEADIATLEY.......... nothing states: OUT OF COUNTRY, WILL SHIP UPON RETURN....... I WILL NOT INCUR THE INITIAL 18.40 S&H AND INSURANCE PAID (WHEN IT COST YOU ONLY 10.00 TOTAL) AND THE ADDITIONAL S&H/INSURANCE BACK TO YOU. It took 10 days for you to act on this and i emailed you and got a reply a day before you truly did ship out the coins, & i feel like you where trying to salvage the sale, telling me they were already shipped out, when truly they didn't ship till next day. i ask once more to try to amicablly work this out, or i will contact ebay, and leave appropriate feedback, and also file w/ paypal for transaction not as stated and have your account frozen up till resolved. this is something i would rather avoid, nor want to put the time/effort into, but i am asking for a solution that is workable, or will be forced w/ no other choice, if it becomes nessesary." Now at this point I am very angry. I was tempted to fire back an e-mail saying that I do not appreciate threats. Perhaps for the future I should change the text of my auction to say Paypal and money order ship as soon as humanly possible. I mean if someone really wanted to get picky they could claim if I did not ship within 5 minutes of a PayPal payment being recevived since that does not constitute "immediately". The text was meant to indicate only that checks have to clear first unlike Paypal and Money Orders. He asks how he was supposed to know I could make arrangements but on the flip side how could I know he needed the shipment expedited if he did not ask anything? Futhermore the $10 he cites is not shipping costs but merely postage and signature confirmation. I offered this guy a return and he is now treatening to shut down my PayPal account! The reason I post this to the group is for a reality check. Am I being at all unreasonable? He is clearly being unreasonable, yes? Thanks for comments and criticisms alike. -- CIA DEA DIA FBI KGB NSA WMD TLA |
#2
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e-Bay sale: Wow what a problem customer
On Sat, 06 May 2006 09:30:28 GMT, "PC" wrote:
Folks I am in a tough bind here. As often is the case both sides have some foothold in this claim but I feel that this guy is being very unreasonable. I have maintained professionalism thus far but now this guy is threatening my PayPal account. I've read the other responses and agree with the ones that suggest you should have quickly given the guy a full refund, including S&H, and moved on. It's gone too far now, though, and you are going to have a problem no matter what you do. You're trying to reason with him in your email, but your anger shows through. He's going to dig in, too. In his email, he's stated that "we need to resolve this matter in a hopefully healthy manner, what do you propose?????", so it's evident that he will accept some sort of compromise. Put the ball in his court. Just send him an email that says: "On review, I see that the shipping delay has caused you a problem. Please let me know exactly how you would like this handled and I will comply." Nothing more. Eat a little crow just to defuse the situation. Don't add explanations, excuses, or additional comments. Keep it brief and don't add points that he can differ with. Your objective at this point should be to end the situation as soon as possible. You aren't going to "win", so don't make the losing more painful. It's like arguing with your wife. Sometimes it's better just to say "You're right, I'm wrong, and I'll never do it again." even if she's wrong. Some battles are unwinnable. -- Tony Cooper Orlando, FL |
#3
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e-Bay sale: Wow what a problem customer
Tony Cooper writes:
Put the ball in his court. Just send him an email that says: "On review, I see that the shipping delay has caused you a problem. Please let me know exactly how you would like this handled and I will comply." Nothing more. That sounds like a great idea. I agree with Tony on this. Even if the guy is a dirtbag and gets negatives all the time, there was a shipping delay, justified or not, and it's not worth the hassle to try and get "justice" at this point. Stacia |
#4
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e-Bay sale: Wow what a problem customer
"Stacia" wrote in message ... Tony Cooper writes: Put the ball in his court. Just send him an email that says: "On review, I see that the shipping delay has caused you a problem. Please let me know exactly how you would like this handled and I will comply." Nothing more. That sounds like a great idea. I agree with Tony on this. Even if the guy is a dirtbag and gets negatives all the time, there was a shipping delay, justified or not, and it's not worth the hassle to try and get "justice" at this point. I sent him an e-mail and patterned it after Tony's response: XXXX, After further reviewing all aspects of this situation and how things played out I can see how this caused you problems. I feel bad about the situation and want to make it right. What do you propose we do to make this right? Thanks, Patrick We'll see what happens. It has been almost 24 since I sent it. He was pretty quick on the e-mails before. Either he was busy on Saturday and has not read it or he is thinking through his position carefully. I'll let you know. |
#5
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e-Bay sale: Wow what a problem customer
On Sun, 07 May 2006 14:21:38 GMT, "PC" wrote:
"Stacia" wrote in message ... Tony Cooper writes: Put the ball in his court. Just send him an email that says: "On review, I see that the shipping delay has caused you a problem. Please let me know exactly how you would like this handled and I will comply." Nothing more. That sounds like a great idea. I agree with Tony on this. Even if the guy is a dirtbag and gets negatives all the time, there was a shipping delay, justified or not, and it's not worth the hassle to try and get "justice" at this point. I sent him an e-mail and patterned it after Tony's response: XXXX, After further reviewing all aspects of this situation and how things played out I can see how this caused you problems. I feel bad about the situation and want to make it right. What do you propose we do to make this right? Good choice. This puts him in the position of being a total jerk if he doesn't come up with a reasonable compromise. Most people respond favorably to this type of reply, but there are always committed jerks. -- Tony Cooper Orlando, FL |
#6
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Follow up to e-Bay sale: Wow what a problem customer
The buyer got back to me and now is willing to keep the items for a $15.00
discount. At this point I am prepared to take it even tough it leaves me with a net loss. I would be curious to hear people's reactions. .. |
#7
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e-Bay sale: Wow what a problem customer
Wow, PC. I feel your pain.
First thing to do is block the bidder so that he can never again bid on your auctions. Re-working your terms is also a good idea. In no case should you get into a confrontational email correspondence with the buyer. If you feel there is any chance he could win in the complaint process (BTW, he probably has somewhat of a case here, as the delivery time could be deemed to be excessive). In the future, you should note any absences in your listings... Or, you can fight all the way, give him a negative feedback, and eat the negative you will receive from him. When leaving negative feedback, just give the facts, and don't go off the deep end with inappropriate comments. Everyone gets a negative sooner or later, it is no big deal. Your subsequent idea of draining the PayPal account, etc. is also a good one, and one that many sellers use - it is not very wise to leave a lot in your PayPal account, obviously. For me, it would depend on the amount of money we were talking about. If it was a lot, I might fight it to the end, but if it wasn't a lot, I would probably refund with S&H, block the guy, and forget about it. Fortunately, very few people are unreasonable - most people, especially in coins, are super... Kind Regards, John PC wrote: Folks I am in a tough bind here. As often is the case both sides have some foothold in this claim but I feel that this guy is being very unreasonable. I have maintained professionalism thus far but now this guy is threatening my PayPal account. The background: I was out of the country when an auction ended. I notified the buyer within 48 hours of the auction ending that I was out of the country and would return on May 1. Upon returning I would mail his item ASAP. I received no reply at that time. I return to the country on May 1. On May 2, in the evening, I package this guys item up. On May 3 I mailed the item right away in the morning. Upon returning home that evening I find an e-mail from that was sent on around 10:30 PM May 2 saying he wants to back out of the sale if the items have not shipped since he has a customer waiting on the items and has another venue to purchase the same item. There is a follow up e-mail at 11:09 AM on May 3 with the same buyer stating that he need the items shipped ASAP as another customer is waiting on them. Then I get an e-mail on May 3 with him wanting to back out of the sale. In each e-mail he points to text in my auction which states that "Checks must first clear with the bank before the item is shipped. PayPal and money orders ship immediately". On the May 3 e-mail he states that since the items were not sent as stated in the listing that he wants to back out. As a somewhat unrelated side note his e-mails are filled with spelling errors. I e-mail the seller explaining that i shipped the previous day (a mistake in verbiage, unfortuately as you will soon see). On May 5 he receives the items and sends me this e-mail: "hi patrick, i find it very perculuier that you stated you shipped out day before you replied to my email, yet postage was paid/stamped, and initiated on the 3rd from your post office. this is very disturbing, again as i had asked since you didn't expidite the quarters to me as was stated in your listing, and i had to make other arraingements for my customer, due to this. i had made a promise to my customer, and needed to follow through, to make a sale and keep a customer for future business. i don't need these quarters now, and am not happy with how this worked out. you made a promis commitment to ship out immeadiately on your auction listing, and i bid accordingly to your promise/commitment. we need to resolve this matter in a hopefully healthy manner, what do you propose????? i await a reply, and hopefully healthy solution, one we can both feel comfortable with." My reply to him: "I stated at the time that the listing ended that I would not be able to ship until after May 1. You made no indication whatsoever at the time that you needed the shipment to be expedited. Had I known there was an urgent need to ship before that I could have contacted someone in the states to handle the situation for me. There was never a request to expedite until May 2 - one day after I informed you that I would return. By that time the order had been packaged and it was sent before I read your e-mail. All my auctions come with at least a 14 day return privilege, from the time the goods were received, no questions asked as long as you have not opened the boxes on them. Simply send the quarters back and I will issue a refund check for the purchase amount less postage, e-Bay/PayPal fees, and insurance." Just before midnight on the 5th of May I get another e-mail from the guy: "you made the statement concerning not shipping till beginning of may via email after the auction had ended, and stated you were out of country. how would i have known that other arraingments could be made with you being away???? i am not the "amazing cresken". the statement i am initially referring to, and what i went by in making my decision to purchase was what you have listed in your auction page fore these coins (located at the bottom of your listing) stating this verbetim(actually copy/pasted your shipping instructions from listing: Seller's payment instructions PayPal, Money Orders, and Personal Checks are accepted. PayPal is mandatory for international orders. PayPal and Money Orders ship immediately. Personal Checks must clear before item is shipped. I do offer combined shipping for multiple auctions won within 48 hours. Additional items are just $1 more. If paying by check or money order you may combine auctions that finish within a 7 day period. PAYPAL AND MONEY ORDERS SHIP IMMEADIATLEY.......... nothing states: OUT OF COUNTRY, WILL SHIP UPON RETURN....... I WILL NOT INCUR THE INITIAL 18.40 S&H AND INSURANCE PAID (WHEN IT COST YOU ONLY 10.00 TOTAL) AND THE ADDITIONAL S&H/INSURANCE BACK TO YOU. It took 10 days for you to act on this and i emailed you and got a reply a day before you truly did ship out the coins, & i feel like you where trying to salvage the sale, telling me they were already shipped out, when truly they didn't ship till next day. i ask once more to try to amicablly work this out, or i will contact ebay, and leave appropriate feedback, and also file w/ paypal for transaction not as stated and have your account frozen up till resolved. this is something i would rather avoid, nor want to put the time/effort into, but i am asking for a solution that is workable, or will be forced w/ no other choice, if it becomes nessesary." Now at this point I am very angry. I was tempted to fire back an e-mail saying that I do not appreciate threats. Perhaps for the future I should change the text of my auction to say Paypal and money order ship as soon as humanly possible. I mean if someone really wanted to get picky they could claim if I did not ship within 5 minutes of a PayPal payment being recevived since that does not constitute "immediately". The text was meant to indicate only that checks have to clear first unlike Paypal and Money Orders. He asks how he was supposed to know I could make arrangements but on the flip side how could I know he needed the shipment expedited if he did not ask anything? Futhermore the $10 he cites is not shipping costs but merely postage and signature confirmation. I offered this guy a return and he is now treatening to shut down my PayPal account! The reason I post this to the group is for a reality check. Am I being at all unreasonable? He is clearly being unreasonable, yes? Thanks for comments and criticisms alike. -- CIA DEA DIA FBI KGB NSA WMD TLA |
#8
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e-Bay sale: Wow what a problem customer
In , on 05/06/2006
at 09:30 AM, "PC" said: Now at this point I am very angry. I was tempted to fire back an e-mail saying that I do not appreciate threats. Perhaps for the future I should change the text of my auction to say Paypal and money order ship as soon as humanly possible. There you go. If you're going to state "immediately", gosh-golly, I would expect things pretty darn quickly. That said, a "normal individual" probably wouldn't have had trouble with your delay. Bad luck to have sold to a "dealer" who needed it for a "customer". This makes me wonder why the customer couldn't have shown some initiatize and cut out the middle man, but that's just me. I've always looked at it that, when a seller screws up, he should reimburse the total amount, including shipping. The return shipping is optional, but it seems a small price to pay to "save" your paypal account. And to try and charge "eBay fees"??? You'd get a neg from me. I did Just That recently when a moron sold me a PC card that wasn't even close to what he claimed. He offered that kind of "refund". Just last week I purchased a large lot of non-coins; stamps. Seller (third party "service") claimed 75k stamps mounted in albums. I got a nice deal on these and paid $50 to ship them to me. When they came, they were way short. I figured, after counting 1 of 5 albums, that there were actually more like 11k. Not worth the money I paid AT ALL. So I wrote the seller, in a relatively nice tone, asking for his suggestions as to how to resolve the issue. I was shocked. and quite pleased, when he appologized and offered a FULL REFUND (including postage) and would even pay FedEx to come and pick the item up and ship it back. A potentially nasty situation was instantly defused. I thanked him profusely, and told him I would happily and promptly prepare the box for pickup. But then I offered an alternative ... I would be happy to pay him a much lesser amount; an amount that the set WAS worth to me. He quickly agreed, and I believe we're both pretty happy. I am! And the seller saved $100 in shipping costs he would have had to eat for no sale. PLUS STINKING EBAY FEES. Buyers, well, this one at least, aren't interested in your overhead. When I take something back to ANY stored for a refund, I don't care to hear about how much the electricity is costing the store, or how much they paid the cashier, or the credit card company, or the accountants. Just give me what I paid back. Including sales tax. It's YOUR job to argue with the state/ebay to get the fees back, not mine. In this case, yes, you did deliver and a more reasonable buyer would have been ok. Bad luck, you didn't get an extemely reasonable buyer; you got one with some time contraints that fit into your terms. But you didn't deliver on your own terms. I think you did a decent job of trying to post-fix the issue, but it didn't work out. I vote that you give the guy his money back completely. If you're really worried about it, kick in the extra $10 for return shipping. Then, quit listing auctions to end when you are out of town. Nick |
#9
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e-Bay sale: Wow what a problem customer
"Nick Knight" wrote in message ... In , on 05/06/2006 at 09:30 AM, "PC" said: Now at this point I am very angry. I was tempted to fire back an e-mail saying that I do not appreciate threats. Perhaps for the future I should change the text of my auction to say Paypal and money order ship as soon as humanly possible. There you go. If you're going to state "immediately", gosh-golly, I would expect things pretty darn quickly. But I explained to him the situation and he gave no protest. I fully informed him of the situation. He has ample time to back out and protest. He did not. That said, a "normal individual" probably wouldn't have had trouble with your delay. Bad luck to have sold to a "dealer" who needed it for a "customer". This makes me wonder why the customer couldn't have shown some initiatize and cut out the middle man, but that's just me. I've always looked at it that, when a seller screws up, he should reimburse the total amount, including shipping. The return shipping is optional, but it seems a small price to pay to "save" your paypal account. And to try and charge "eBay fees"??? You'd get a neg from me. I did Just That recently when a moron sold me a PC card that wasn't even close to what he claimed. He offered that kind of "refund". That was a mistake as I can recoup e-Bay fees by saying he backed out of the sale. I can recoup PayPal fees by giving him the refund through PayPal. *snip* return shipping. Then, quit listing auctions to end when you are out of town. I often get called out of town with no more than a days notice. Sometimes it can not be avoided. I have already changed the text on current auctions so that in the future when that text (which is filled in automatically based on your last sale) is read it will state ASAP. This guy is still an a***ole. |
#10
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e-Bay sale: Wow what a problem customer
In , on 05/06/2006
at 02:31 PM, "PC" said: There you go. If you're going to state "immediately", gosh-golly, I would expect things pretty darn quickly. But I explained to him the situation and he gave no protest. I fully informed him of the situation. He has ample time to back out and protest. He did not. From what I remember, you wrote to him saying you couldn't ship until 5/1. Did you state in the email to "write back quickly if you have a problem with this"??? Perhaps the buyer paid and went out of town for a few days. Expecting, when he returned, that he'd have the package. You're not the only one who can go out of town, are you? And, once he's paid, he's under no obligation to wait around to see if there is any problem with the stated terms. I understand your case. Honest. I just think he has one, too. And he has nothing to lose for trying to make his case. Nick |
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