Changing the Metal Composition Of Coins

"Dave Allured" wrote in message
...
Dave Allured wrote:

Paul Anderson wrote:

In article , Dave Allured
wrote:

Sweet. We *really* should stop manufacturing and retire both the
cent and nickel, right now.

I agree, but it seems so difficult to even get rid of the penny,
imagine the outcry if we tried to eliminate the nickel too! We need to
take one step at a time.

Suppose we changed the composition of the nickel so it costs less than
face value to make. Wouldn't that mess up the vending machine
industry? Would all machines that accept nickels have to be changed?

They have you thinking inside a small box, Paul. That is a problem
begging to be not solved.

Suppose vend operators said enough is enough, priced everything at 75¢.
1.00, 1.25 etc. (Like it has been at my agency for the last year or
so.) Suppose they decided sure, we like those coin acceptors just the
way they are, so any new fangled light weight nickels just rolled back
out the coin return. Suppose you would have to consider yourself lucky
if some vending machine would even take your measly two dimes and a
nickel.

No laws would need to be changed, and almost nobody would complain.

The attachment to coinage worth more than its metal is exclusively
sentimental.

Erp. I meant, "The attachment to coinage worth LESS than its metal is
exclusively sentimental."

There are a few monetary conservatives here who would agree with your first
phrasing too.

"Dave Allured" wrote in message
...
Bruce Remick wrote:

"Paul Anderson" wrote in message
news
In article , Dave Allured
wrote:

Sweet. We *really* should stop manufacturing and retire both the
cent and nickel, right now.

I agree, but it seems so difficult to even get rid of the penny,
imagine the outcry if we tried to eliminate the nickel too! We need to
take one step at a time.

Suppose we changed the composition of the nickel so it costs less than
face value to make. Wouldn't that mess up the vending machine
industry? Would all machines that accept nickels have to be changed?

Paul

Given today's vending machine product prices, it's hard to imagine
nickels
or dimes having a practical use in vending machine purchases or change
making anymore. But I suppose as long as there are little old ladies
with
change purses, the machines will have to accept them, just like the
turnpike
toll machines.

Little old ladies with change purses have been unable to dump their
pennies into most vending machines for, oh, about half a century ago.
That indignity is now reserved for live grocery and department store
clerks.

For the last half century or more, pennies were always the subject of
controversy whenever anyone tried to spend more than a reasonable amount of
them on a purchase. I don't know if there's any law specifying how many
pennies a merchant is obligated to accept today. Nickels haven't quite
reached that status yet. Fifty years ago you could use pennies in machines
that sold candy, gum, peanuts, etc. and in "Penny Arcades" at amusement
parks. Merchants didn't flinch when people (mostly kids) would count out 20
or 30 pennies for something they had saved for. Today there don't seem to
be many machines that sell stuff priced at less than a dollar, and nothing
that I've seen that would return a nickel or dime in change.


They (the ladies) seemed to get over it fairly well. I expect they will
face up to loss of their freedom of nickels with similar aplomb.

I agree that further production of pennies and probably nickels could be
eliminated. If we can grudgingly accept a multi-trillion debt, we should
have a much easier time learning to handle a modified pricing structure
involving a few cents.

In article , Dave Allured
wrote:

They have you thinking inside a small box, Paul. That is a problem
begging to be not solved.

Suppose vend operators said enough is enough, priced everything at 75¢.
1.00, 1.25 etc. (Like it has been at my agency for the last year or
so.) Suppose they decided sure, we like those coin acceptors just the
way they are, so any new fangled light weight nickels just rolled back
out the coin return. Suppose you would have to consider yourself lucky
if some vending machine would even take your measly two dimes and a
nickel.

No laws would need to be changed, and almost nobody would complain.

If a vending machine item were today priced at 60¢ I think people would
not be happy if it went up to 75¢.

I've seen many vending machines in which products are priced at
non-multiples of 25¢. And since no one has suggested changing the
composition of dimes, I suppose an 85¢ item would be OK, just not a 90¢
item? (But then, you could put in two quarters and four dimes, or a
dollar and get a dime back.)

The vending machine industry would have to figure out if the cost of
changing all their coin acceptors is worth the possible backlash from
consumers who couldn't use new nickels in the machine.

Paul

mazorj wrote:

"Dave Allured" wrote in message
...
Dave Allured wrote:

Paul Anderson wrote:

In article , Dave Allured
wrote:

Sweet. We *really* should stop manufacturing and retire both the
cent and nickel, right now.

I agree, but it seems so difficult to even get rid of the penny,
imagine the outcry if we tried to eliminate the nickel too! We need to
take one step at a time.

Suppose we changed the composition of the nickel so it costs less than
face value to make. Wouldn't that mess up the vending machine
industry? Would all machines that accept nickels have to be changed?

They have you thinking inside a small box, Paul. That is a problem
begging to be not solved.

Suppose vend operators said enough is enough, priced everything at 75¢.
1.00, 1.25 etc. (Like it has been at my agency for the last year or
so.) Suppose they decided sure, we like those coin acceptors just the
way they are, so any new fangled light weight nickels just rolled back
out the coin return. Suppose you would have to consider yourself lucky
if some vending machine would even take your measly two dimes and a
nickel.

No laws would need to be changed, and almost nobody would complain.

The attachment to coinage worth more than its metal is exclusively
sentimental.

Erp. I meant, "The attachment to coinage worth LESS than its metal is
exclusively sentimental."

There are a few monetary conservatives here who would agree with your first
phrasing too.

Ah yes. In fact that is an understatement. ;-)

Paul Anderson wrote:
In article , Dave Allured
wrote:

They have you thinking inside a small box, Paul. That is a problem
begging to be not solved.

Suppose vend operators said enough is enough, priced everything at
75¢.
1.00, 1.25 etc. (Like it has been at my agency for the last year or
so.) Suppose they decided sure, we like those coin acceptors just
the way they are, so any new fangled light weight nickels just
rolled back out the coin return. Suppose you would have to consider
yourself lucky if some vending machine would even take your measly
two dimes and a nickel.

No laws would need to be changed, and almost nobody would complain.

If a vending machine item were today priced at 60¢ I think people
would not be happy if it went up to 75¢.

Well, of course not, but not to any greater degree than they are unhappy
about everything else. Find me a person who has not lived through several
vending machine price increases. Most of us continue to patronize them, it
appears, or the machines would gradually disappear. I don't see that
happening.

I've seen many vending machines in which products are priced at
non-multiples of 25¢. And since no one has suggested changing the
composition of dimes, I suppose an 85¢ item would be OK, just not a
90¢ item? (But then, you could put in two quarters and four dimes,
or a dollar and get a dime back.)

The vending machine industry would have to figure out if the cost of
changing all their coin acceptors is worth the possible backlash from
consumers who couldn't use new nickels in the machine.

They have indeed had to make that calculation on dozens of occasions in the
past, through times thick and thin, but they seem to continue to thrive.
You and I may not know how to do the studies and reconfigure their machines,
but I am totally confident that the vending industry knows how to do it most
efficiently and cost-effectively. They're specialists, after all.

James

On Fri, 5 Feb 2010 09:10:21 -0500, "Bruce Remick"
wrote:


"Dave Allured" wrote in message
...
Bruce Remick wrote:

"Paul Anderson" wrote in message
news In article , Dave Allured
wrote:

Sweet. We *really* should stop manufacturing and retire both the
cent and nickel, right now.

I agree, but it seems so difficult to even get rid of the penny,
imagine the outcry if we tried to eliminate the nickel too! We need to
take one step at a time.

Suppose we changed the composition of the nickel so it costs less than
face value to make. Wouldn't that mess up the vending machine
industry? Would all machines that accept nickels have to be changed?

Paul

Given today's vending machine product prices, it's hard to imagine
nickels
or dimes having a practical use in vending machine purchases or change
making anymore. But I suppose as long as there are little old ladies
with
change purses, the machines will have to accept them, just like the
turnpike
toll machines.

Little old ladies with change purses have been unable to dump their
pennies into most vending machines for, oh, about half a century ago.
That indignity is now reserved for live grocery and department store
clerks.

For the last half century or more, pennies were always the subject of
controversy whenever anyone tried to spend more than a reasonable amount of
them on a purchase. I don't know if there's any law specifying how many
pennies a merchant is obligated to accept today.


According to the article below, there doesn't seem to be any federal
law obligating merchants to accept every type of coin or currency for
payment.

'The Treasury Department goes on to say that there's no law "mandating
that a private business, a person or an organization must accept
currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services."

"Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether
or not to accept cash unless there is a state law which says
otherwise. For example, a bus line may prohibit payment of fares in
pennies or dollar bills."

Tim Smith, a spokesman for American Airlines, elaborated on this
interpretation of the law. "Any business can do what it wants," he
said. "If they say you have to pay in carrots, they can do it." '

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...37,full.column

Just like the signs that used to appear in stores stating that "We
reserve the right to refuse service to anyone", there could be signs
saying "We reserve the right to refuse particular types of payment".



Nickels haven't quite
reached that status yet. Fifty years ago you could use pennies in machines
that sold candy, gum, peanuts, etc. and in "Penny Arcades" at amusement
parks. Merchants didn't flinch when people (mostly kids) would count out 20
or 30 pennies for something they had saved for. Today there don't seem to
be many machines that sell stuff priced at less than a dollar, and nothing
that I've seen that would return a nickel or dime in change.


They (the ladies) seemed to get over it fairly well. I expect they will
face up to loss of their freedom of nickels with similar aplomb.

I agree that further production of pennies and probably nickels could be
eliminated. If we can grudgingly accept a multi-trillion debt, we should
have a much easier time learning to handle a modified pricing structure
involving a few cents.

On Feb 5, 4:17*pm, Tom Wayne wrote:

"Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether
or not to accept cash unless there is a state law which says
otherwise. For example, a bus line may prohibit payment of fares in
pennies or dollar bills."

Tim Smith, a spokesman for American Airlines, elaborated on this
interpretation of the law. "Any business can do what it wants," he
said. "If they say you have to pay in carrots, they can do it." '

I am fairly sure that a gold clause in business contracts has been
repeatedly overturned in many cases over at least a century. I am not
a lawyer, and perhaps there is a way to make such a requirement.

Peter wrote:
On Feb 5, 4:17 pm, Tom Wayne wrote:

"Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether
or not to accept cash unless there is a state law which says
otherwise. For example, a bus line may prohibit payment of fares in
pennies or dollar bills."

Tim Smith, a spokesman for American Airlines, elaborated on this
interpretation of the law. "Any business can do what it wants," he
said. "If they say you have to pay in carrots, they can do it." '

I am fairly sure that a gold clause in business contracts has been
repeatedly overturned in many cases over at least a century. I am not
a lawyer, and perhaps there is a way to make such a requirement.


I wonder why I could not sell, say cars, for gold. Say one new Smart car
for 15 ounces of gold. Not in dollars of gold, but in ounces of gold.

--
Government is a voracious monster that must have your labor to control
YOU! Your money is your liberty. The taxes you pay gently enslave you,
and eventually destroy any human liberty you have. Fear government, pray
for the country.

On Feb 27, 4:30*pm, George wrote:

I wonder why I could not sell, say cars, for gold. Say one new Smart car
for 15 ounces of gold. Not in dollars of gold, but in ounces of gold.

Brought back a memory from the 1960's. Car dealer had sign on car
window, offering it for "2,000 bananas". Guy came in with that many
bananas. Dealer of course refused. Guy brought him to court and won.
Now, he probably would be fined for bringing a frivolous law suit.

Jud - "Come Mr. Tally man, tally me banana"

"George" wrote in message
...
I wonder why I could not sell, say cars, for gold. Say one new Smart car for
15 ounces of gold. Not in dollars of gold, but in ounces of gold.

You could sell cars for anything you want - dollars, gold, horse manure,
whatever - all you have to do is find a buyer who will agree to your terms.