Sinatra-Jobim: $4550

On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 15:06:43 -0400, (lennon fan)
wrote:

bob, maybe you could answer this question.
Certain reel tapes that I have 'squeal' and I don't know how to stop it.
Any ideas? snip

Yes...the whale oil in the oxide layer has oxidized away, and the
squealing is caused by the friction between the tape's oxide layer and
your guides and heads....not a good sign. Repeated play with a
"squealing" tape will wear both the heads and the guides.

The cure for such a tape is "baking," which is covered here and there
on the Internet, although most restorers use their own formula for
each different brand and type of tape. I use an electric scientific
oven heated to 55°C and have the bare tape pancake resting on each
side for about 3 hours, remove, cool, place on other side and repeat
for 3 more, resting the pancake on a piece of tempered glass. Don't
use a fossil fuel oven, as the combustion gases will adversely affect
the tape's binder.

Acetate sometimes responds to baking, but it can further dry out the
backing and therefore cause it to be more brittle than before. Most
Mylar and polyplastic backed tape does respond to this fairly well,
except for almost anything made by 3M or BASF. Some people have had
success with baking BASF consumer tape, but you have to be careful, as
their plastic seems to reach a "plastic" state fairly low...I'd go
with 45°C on that and see what happens. Usually, the synthetic
lubricant used on BASF tape will not respond even to heat, while the
whale oil used in most tape made by almost everyone else is driven out
of the oxide layer toward the surface, allowing the tape to be played
one or two more times before being retired.

Much "Rat Shack" RTR consumer tape was made by BASF, with the same
results. The absolute most hopeless cases were Scotch 223 and
250...once they're gone, they're gone. Both 3M and BASF used a water
soluable binder in their oxide mixtures, and exposure to atmospheric
moisture, such as in a coastal area, will almost certainly destroy it
over time.

On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 15:10:10 -0400, (lennon fan)
wrote:

one other thing submasters...
I remember about 8 years ago seeing a 15ips tape of Rubber Soul (Capitol
version) available on ebay, ultimately selling for just over $80!
I think (IIRC) that it was from Terra Haute, IN, and was likely the
master used to cut the lp? snip

More than likely a stolen sub master from a tape dupe plant. Usually,
tape sub masters never wound up anywhere near a contract record
pressing plant, as the mother matrix was the "master" for disc
production, and would be sent from a mastering lab. The pressing
plant would them make "sub mothers" from that, and then production
stampers from there. Exceptions to this were when the labels (like
Capitol and RCA) owned their own facilities, and had mastering and
pressing facilities under one roof. Remember, there was a huge RCA
tape duplication facility in Terre Haute back in those days. If it
were the real master, I doubt it'd have wound up on eBay without
someone from EMI or the RIAA catching it before it closed.

"By '69, Sinatra's
pipe were turning to leather due to lots of booze and smoke, and
compared to a lot of his earlier work, his voice began to become
annoying to some. His best stuff was the "comeback" years, starting
in '54 with Billy May and later Nelson Riddle. It was Riddle's
arrangements later on that carried Sinatra once his voice went to
crap."

I agree with you there. With the exception of "My Way", his later
stuff is crap. I had "Trilogy" on 8 track and I was surprised by the
lack of quality in his voice. Honestly, he should have stayed retired
when he said he would in 70-71. This similar stuff ruined Nico's
once-beautiful voice as well.

However, on the opposite end, Marianne Faithfull's drinking, smoking
and drugging *added* to her voice. I like her post-heroin voice; it
seems to have a lot more emotion than before. Odd thing to think/say,
huh?

On 27 Jun 2006 19:03:42 -0700, wrote:

However, on the opposite end, Marianne Faithfull's drinking, smoking
and drugging *added* to her voice. snip

That's because she didn't have one to start with, and the
smack/booze/cigs added "gravel" to it, which appeals to men,
especially if they like bar hos. For "gravel," there was always the
female additive inverse of Rod Stewart...Kim Carnes...rasp rasp
rasp.

I like her post-heroin voice; it
seems to have a lot more emotion than before. Odd thing to think/say,
huh? snip

Well, you can take the "emotion with no talent" thing a little far,
like Yoko's "screeching." "Ned! It's coming RIGHT FOR us!" Ka-BLAM!

Another junkie who DID have a real voice, and emerged pretty much
different, but still very good, was Gene Krupa's singer for
years...Anita O'Day. The smack and so on cut about half an octave off
her range, but she wound up being very bluesy while still having all
the educated "basics" of good singing. She sure looked scary after
that, though! What happened to Sinatra is that he got a swelled head
and got lazy. In the '50s, he still had the discipline and diaphragm
control, as well as the breath control and phrasing. After around
'69, he'd just sort of "croak." Tony Bennett sort of went the same
way...a great voice that got smoked out and boozed out. At least Tony
was smart, and just settled for being a "saloon singer," usually with
his pianist/arranger, and forget the big band stuff that made him
famous. Sinatra kept trying to do the old standards in concert,
sometimes with very embarrasing results. On Sinatra-Jobim, it's
pretty obvious that Frankie was in no mood to challenge himself
vocally as he routinely did in the '50s.

Yet another ex-junkie who can sing probably better now than in his
heyday (but minus a few top notes), but no one cares: Chuck Negron
from 3 Dog Night. Now THERE was a true, natural talent...no lessons,
no training, just a powerful tenor voice with an amazing range. His
"tell-all" about his life as a junkie is an interesting, if probably
somewhat single dimensional read.

On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 01:55:42 GMT, "William W Western"
wrote:

Verve in 1964, but Sinatra was....eh....not so hot. By '69, Sinatra's
pipe were turning to leather due to lots of booze and smoke, and
compared to a lot of his earlier work, his voice began to become
annoying to some.
Not available on 8 track, but I have been enjoying Frank Sinatra
Jr's new cd - _That Face!_. Some of the tunes are Riddle arrangements. Nice
to see the re-emergence of the crooners the last few years, and I suppose
that is what prompted a new recording from Frank Jr. He's got the genes. snip

Yeah, but Harry Connick, Jr. has the PIPES, and can sound more like
the seminal Frank than the kid can. What we're seeing is a return to
"cultured" vocals, oft times recycling old standards from the golden
age of American song. There's simply nothing else out there that
people want to hear more than once! Who's going to remember
Nickelback in five years? Or Fitty Cent? Or that other mook whose
name I forgot? Or Benockie, or whatever HER name is? Or even Mariah
Carey? NO one. Reason: junk material delivered by studio processed
voices. Proof of my theory has already happened...Britney Spears. All
she is now is laughing stock for the tabloids...and the press in
general.

I think Andrea Bocelli has made a huge impact on popular music which
people in the U.S. are just starting to really discover (witness the
Bocelli Clones: Russell Watson, Il Divo, etc.)

My opinion is that the public at large is growing weary of rap,
processed pop that has absolutely no life to it, singers that screech
like Minnie Riperton on steroids, completely forgettable songs that have
the shelf life of a carton of milk, and so on.

Bocelli actually works on his voice and is a credible Opera singer.
While not quite as 'powerful' as the young Pavarotti or Caruso, he does
have a very nuanced and controlled top end. This informs his pop
material and brings something approaching good singing back into the
mainstream.

I also agree about Chuck Negron...wonder why he doesn't tour with the
other members of TDN?
I thought they really were one of the better cover bands in the 60's.

On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 06:46:26 -0400, (lennon fan)
wrote:

I think Andrea Bocelli has made a huge impact on popular music which
people in the U.S. are just starting to really discover (witness the
Bocelli Clones: Russell Watson, Il Divo, etc.) snip

Right on target.

Bocelli actually works on his voice and is a credible Opera singer.
While not quite as 'powerful' as the young Pavarotti or Caruso, he does
have a very nuanced and controlled top end. This informs his pop
material and brings something approaching good singing back into the
mainstream. snip

In short, he's both a talented AND educated musician...not some flash
in the pan hack propped up by studio gear and knob twisting
"producers."

I also agree about Chuck Negron...wonder why he doesn't tour with the
other members of TDN?
I thought they really were one of the better cover bands in the 60's. snip

BIIIIIIG rift still exists today between Negron and TDN front man,
Corey Wells. Wells, also one of the most recognizable voices from
that era, had a nose-to-grindstone work ethic, never dabbled in drugs,
and was continuously irritated by Negron's drug-induced hijinx and
faux pas during their hit era while they were on the road. Missing
recording sessions was another Negron trademark during the era, and
Wells would have to play middleman between him and his junkie
girlfriend and tight-assed ABC management, who wanted another hit
album yesterday.

Danny Hutton was also a druggie, but, only having one hit ("Liar," in
which he sang the vocal into the bottom of the bathroom sink at
American Sound Recoders in Studio City to get that effect that no one
can duplicate) was easily swayed by Wells after he kicked heroin and
stopped partying to excess, realizing that his meal ticket with the
band was over when they broke up on 1976. TDN tours now with Wells
and Hutton and someone else filling Negron's spot, as well as with
Modesto-based guitarist Mike Allsup. Attempts to reunite by Negron
have been rebuffed by Wells, who doesn't want to relinquish any
control of the TDN name or their steady income on the "oldies"
circuit. It's a shame, really...Negron's tenor voice, along with
Wells' gruff baritone, really made the combination happen. Hutton was
always just a third voice to fill in the triads that they were justly
famous for. However, it was Hutton who originally hooked the three up
in '68.

TDN was always dismissed as a "lightweight" band in their day, and you
have to remember that this (the early '70s) was the
"singer/songwriter" era...if you didn't write your own material, you
were a "nobody." I always thought that they were short changed, and
their album sales prove the point. They were one of the biggest
grossing pop acts of the early '70s. They also carefully chose their
material from an array of later-famous songwriters such as Hoyt Axton,
Laura Nero, Joni Mitchell and a bunch of others. Good production
values by recordist-turned-producer Richie Podolor also helped, but it
was classical musician and producer Gabriel Mekler who produced their
first smash hit LP in 1969, which included the chart toppers, "One"
and "Try A Little Tenderness." It was Podolor, though, who knew how
to package the trio vocals with Joe Schermi's "long" bass and Floyd
Snead's thwacking drum lines to produce consistant hits. You'll also
note that the first album had a "live" feel to it (it was recorded
"live-in-the-studio" with no overdubs) while Podolor's efforts took
full advantage of multitracking and overdubbing.

Tinkering with the format ruined their recording career, as evidenced
by the disastrous "Coming Down Your Way" and their last, the
aptly-titled "Seven Separate Fools." In those, Jimmy Greenspoon
eschewed the Hammond B-3 for the Mellotron (a BIG mistake) and the
vocals were not good, fueled mostly by Negron's worsening heroin
addiction and Wells' resentment of both Negron and Hutton's refusal to
get down to business. The material for both of these was obviously
poorly chosen, as well.

Chuck Negron now has solo CDs for sale on his web site,
http://www.negron.com . They're definitely worth a listen, as his
voice, although truncated now in range, is as expressive and emotive
as ever, now with a certain "now I know better" maturity. Chuck looks
pretty good, considering smack almost killed him more than once.

Bob, are you thinking of Hard Labor (which came after Seven Separate
Fools) SSF has a few really good songs on it, IMO, Pieces Of April and
that Morning instrumental (an original) that precedes it, plus a couple
others...tho they really start swinging commercial here, with the song
Black and White.
Nice packaging on the lp as well.

On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 14:54:03 -0400, (lennon fan)
wrote:

Bob, are you thinking of Hard Labor (which came after Seven Separate
Fools) SSF has a few really good songs on it, IMO, Pieces Of April and
that Morning instrumental (an original) that precedes it, plus a couple
others...tho they really start swinging commercial here, with the song
Black and White.
Nice packaging on the lp as well. snip

You are correct..."SSF" was released in '72, and had the hits you
mentioned. "Prelude to Morning" was an original penned by organist
Jimmy Greenspoon. The "bad" albums were "Coming Down Your Way" ('75)
and "American Pastime" ('76), both of which were huge flops. "SSF"
was indeed a gold record. With "Hard Labor," ('74) the change from
the Richie Podolor sound with new producer (mandated by MCA) Jimmy
Ienner didn't foretell good things to come. Podolor saw the writing
on the wall with the group falling apart and bailed out to do other
projects. Ienner left right after "Coming Down Your Way" proved to be
a sales disaster, and MCA staffer Bob Monaco did "American Pastime,"
which convinced MCA that TDN was finished. By this time, Chuck wasn't
showing up for most recording sessions, and had to be escorted to the
studio to lay down tracks...if he was capable of staying awake.

Richie Podolor teamed up with Negron in '95 to produce his first
comeback solo album, with Floyd Snead on drums and TDN veteran Joe
Schermi on bass. It's pretty darned good, although don't expect a
return to the '70s with it. The fact that his voice survived the
years and the smack as well as it did is pretty astounding in itself.

"Hard Labor": There is an early "banned" cover without the big
bandaid on it, underneath of which shows one of the guys pulling a
record out with a pair of baby forceps...which proved to be too much
for the church nutters and the faint of heart. After the initial
release, all later ones had the "bandaid." Early "non bandaid" copies
are collectable and bring higher than normal prices. I have the 8
track in "non bandaid," as well. Some "interim" copies shipped with
adhesive bandaids, but later cover art had the bandaid lithographed
in. Beware of LP (and presumably 8 track) copies with the adhesive
bandaid peeled off...not collectable, and a "nudo."

hehe....you really know your TDN Bob..
my intro to 3dog was my dad getting an 8track for the car somewhere
around late '69 and Golden Bisquits and the 5th Dimension-Aquarius were
the first 2 8-tracks. I really loved them both and they got played
ENDLESSLY while we worked during the day out of his car as a route
manager for the baltimore sun (he carried the west going into the
county) anyway, certain routes would be open and I'd deliver papers and
we'd hear those tapes over and over and over and over and over and over

until we got our 3rd 8-track, Best of Bee Gees which also played over
and over and over
Finally I started collecting the Fabs and other groups, like Chicago and
other hots groups of the era, I think all my money went to 8-tracks and
cigarettes
...but every time I hear Elton John sing Your Song, I think of TDN,
because I think they actually recorded it first!