Has anyone News about Mettes Work?

"Victor Manta" wrote:

Thanks for info and for the links.

You're welcome.

I hope that Mr. Jørgensen will react soon to my message, this after 4
months during which nothing happened. Maybe as the new FEPA president his
priorities changed...

I have no idea.

May I cite from a message that I got 3 months ago from a participant in
this ng whom I hold in high esteem: "Although we have a moral obligation
to Mette's relatives as to whether they will let us act according to
Mette's last wishes, we have our own interpretation of what might have
been her last wish and thus act accordingly."

Sure - we are all allowed to guess what Mette's last wish was - but I
know what it is and have told you. So the only person who can act
according to Mette's last wish is Jørgen Jørgensen as the president of
www.motivsamler.dk and you must wait to see what he will do. This is
my clear opinion. No one else has the right to host her pages.

I have no special interest in thematic and have no special interest in
Mette's pages. We were good friends through many, many years and I
have deep respect for her and her great work.

I just wonder how much time should I still wait until Mette's ArtHistory
site will be eventually published on motivsamler.dk, before publishing it
on artonstamps.org, what I promissed Mette a long time ago. Any opinion?

Yes. I can assure you that Mette wanted her pages to be stored at
motivsamer.dk and no other place - not at my place nor at yours. The
organization Tony talk about below is www.motivsamler.dk

And in my opinion you don't have to be concerned about how much time
it will take before the pages will be uploaded. If you are interested
in the progress you must wait for Jørgen's answer to your question. I
can't understand that it is so difficult for you to understand/accept
that.

A couple of days after Mette was released from the Frederikssund for the
last time, we spoke on the telephone - after that she deteriorated too
quickly for further contact. During that conversation I told Mette that
the people paying for my A Media Luz project were providing me with so
much space that if the project were a hundred times longer it still would
barely use a tenth of the space provided, and that if she wanted me to
upload all her stuff to the extra space it still would be a drop in the
ocean. Mette thanked me but said that an organization - not an
individual, an organization - had agreed to assume responsibility for all
her pages with the exception of her Slania and her Albuisson opi. She
asked me, however, to download all her pages, burn them to a CD and send
it to her - I burnt the files onto two CDs and sent them to her under
separate covers just in case one got lost or damaged in transit. I also
burnt an extra copy for myself "for sentimental reasons".

Someone in the USA had earlier agreed with Mette separately to host the
Slania pages, and I got in touch with Pierre Albuisson (par l'entremise de
M Pierre Courtiade) to see what he wants done with his pages. I still
have not received a reply from Pierre A.

That is the most recent information I have on the matter. Hope it helps.

Thanks, Tony. Good luck with M. Albuisson!

Our situations are quite different. In my case I promised Mette to keep her
ArtHistory site on the Web, in case of... She made later some agreements
with other persons/organizations but she never revoked our arrangement.
Obviously, I cannot find out anymore if she did it purposely or not.

Victor, I can assure you that what you told Mette (call it a promise -
whatever), it was Mette's last will that her pages should be hosted at
www.motivsamler.dk

Mette and I talked to me many, many times in the phone - also a few
days before she passed away and as Tony say "an organization" will
host her pages.

You can't expect Mette to "revoke" something you said to her. You made
a kind offer which she did not accept but that shouldn't force her to
revoke something.

Anyway, if the Danish organization won't be able to publish ArtHistory soon,
I believe that I have the moral obligation to publish her site.

You have not! You have no "moral obligation" to publish her site. The
site is handed over to www.motivsamler.dk

I really can't understand why it is so difficult for you to
accept/understand that Mette's last wish was that motivsamler.dk
should host her pages AND that motivsamler.dk has accepted that. They
made an agreement and the "deal" is over! How long time it takes to
make her pages accessible again is motivsamler.dk's business and you
have no rights to set any "time limit".

Taking into
consideration my long time collaboration with Mette on the same topics, the
Art on Stamps, and my promise, I would create a subdomain "arthistory" of my
domain artonstamps.org and place there the entire Mette's site. Therefore
the URL of her site would be www.arthistory.artonstamps.org.

Further ideas, objections, etc.?

When I get to my bank next time, I'll get my e-mail backup from
01.01.-31.06.2009 and find the e-mails in which Mette talked about
hosting her pages. And I'll post her message to me about her last
wish. No news in that mail, though. I can assure you, Victor, that she
didn't want her pages to be hosted at your site or at my site - she
made another arrangement.

Another subject. I wondered how could you find the above links, and I found
out that when I was in Google Groups
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.c...cs?hl=en&gvc=2

and when I searched for "mette passed away" by pressing the "Search this
group" button, I got nothing, but when I searched for the same thing by
pressing "Search Groups", the links to the older postings appeared. Strange
behavior...

Yes, but it seems to the way it is!
--
Mvh Toke
Se http://www.norbyhus.dk/DDPE/
En ny bog med biografier over godt
4300 postfolk m.m.

"Toke Nørby" wrote in message
...
"Victor Manta" wrote:

snip for brevity

You can't expect Mette to "revoke" something you said to her. You made
a kind offer which she did not accept but that shouldn't force her to
revoke something.

I don't know why Toke understood that I made a proposal to Mette to keep her
site alive and that she rejected my proposal, the contrary being true. Maybe
it was a language problem. It is obvious that I could _promise_ something to
her only if she wanted it. She was then free to revoke later what we agreed
but she didn't, which was her right too.

As I wrote several months ago, if the mentioned organization will put the
ArtHistory site online then this will be a very good solution. But over 4
months passed and nothing happened, and for this reasons the questions asked
on this ng, mine included, are legitimate. For me it is not important who
publishes it, just that the site reappears. Therefore may I reiterate my
question:

How long should we still wait till the ArtHistory site appears on
motivsamler.dk, before solving the "problem" by ourselves????

Victor Manta

Victor Manta wrote:
"Toke Nørby" wrote in message
...
"Victor Manta" wrote:

snip for brevity
You can't expect Mette to "revoke" something you said to her. You made
a kind offer which she did not accept but that shouldn't force her to
revoke something.

I don't know why Toke understood that I made a proposal to Mette to keep her
site alive and that she rejected my proposal, the contrary being true. Maybe
it was a language problem. It is obvious that I could _promise_ something to
her only if she wanted it. She was then free to revoke later what we agreed
but she didn't, which was her right too.

As I wrote several months ago, if the mentioned organization will put the
ArtHistory site online then this will be a very good solution. But over 4
months passed and nothing happened, and for this reasons the questions asked
on this ng, mine included, are legitimate. For me it is not important who
publishes it, just that the site reappears. Therefore may I reiterate my
question:

How long should we still wait till the ArtHistory site appears on
motivsamler.dk, before solving the "problem" by ourselves????

Victor Manta


Victor
I'd say if you don't get your question answered within the next week go
ahead and post Mette's pages at your site. These excellent pages should
not be withheld from publication any longer.

Bill Sharpe

"Sir F. A. Rien" wrote in message
...
Bill Sharpe found these unused words:



Victor Manta wrote:
"Toke Nørby" wrote in message
...
"Victor Manta" wrote:

snip for brevity
You can't expect Mette to "revoke" something you said to her. You made
a kind offer which she did not accept but that shouldn't force her to
revoke something.

I don't know why Toke understood that I made a proposal to Mette to keep
her
site alive and that she rejected my proposal, the contrary being true.
Maybe
it was a language problem. It is obvious that I could _promise_
something to
her only if she wanted it. She was then free to revoke later what we
agreed
but she didn't, which was her right too.

As I wrote several months ago, if the mentioned organization will put
the
ArtHistory site online then this will be a very good solution. But over
4
months passed and nothing happened, and for this reasons the questions
asked
on this ng, mine included, are legitimate. For me it is not important
who
publishes it, just that the site reappears. Therefore may I reiterate my
question:

How long should we still wait till the ArtHistory site appears on
motivsamler.dk, before solving the "problem" by ourselves????

Victor Manta


Victor
I'd say if you don't get your question answered within the next week go
ahead and post Mette's pages at your site. These excellent pages should
not be withheld from publication any longer.

Bill Sharpe

I'd say "Beware of COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT"!

IF she has made arrangements, then she may have specifically passed her
copyright [donation] to the chosen organization.

Whatever we may think or wish, don't leave yourself open for legal action.


This seems correct, thanks for the warning. The problem was clear to me and
for this reason I opened here, on the major philatelic ng, a discussion on
this sensitive subject.

The good question is what can/should we do now, because that organization
hasn't published the ArtHistoty site and by not doing it hasn't carried out
Mette's will?

Other, subsequent questions: Which is the reasonable delay? Is 4 months too
long or not? Because I promised Mette, before she made other arrangements,
to republish her site, have I a moral obligation to bring the site back?

--
Victor Manta

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Art on Stamps: http://artonstamps.org/
Philatelic Webmasters Organization: http://pwmo.org/
Romania by Stamps: http://marci-postale.com/
Communism on Stamps: http://reds-on.postalstamps.biz/
Spanish North Africa: http://www.sna-on.postalstamps.biz/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Victor Manta" wrote:

"Sir F. A. Rien" wrote in message
I'd say "Beware of COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT"!

IF she has made arrangements, then she may have specifically passed her
copyright [donation] to the chosen organization.

Whatever we may think or wish, don't leave yourself open for legal action.

This is easy to understand! And Victor is probably about to "shoot
himself in his foot!"

Victor ymtede:
This seems correct, thanks for the warning. The problem was clear to me and
for this reason I opened here, on the major philatelic ng, a discussion on
this sensitive subject.

The good question is what can/should we do now, because that organization
hasn't published the ArtHistoty site and by not doing it hasn't carried out
Mette's will?

Other, subsequent questions: Which is the reasonable delay? Is 4 months too
long or not? Because I promised Mette, before she made other arrangements,
to republish her site, have I a moral obligation to bring the site back?

Search your memory (all of you) and please dig out the postings in
this ng from around 3rd Aug 2003 - You can read all threads here -
and you can scroll up and down:

http://groups.google.dk/group/rec.co...ions &lnk=ol&

and see Mette's opinion regarding Victor, e.g.:

"I am not talking about Toke's posts, but about your answer to him.
Of course you have not published any of our private discussion in
this matter (neither have I, only the rough content), that would be
abuse of mail secrecy. But you have published my opinion taken
from my posts without my prior consent, and this is what I am talking
about. You have a god-given talent for turning things upside-down,
and answer questions and comments, not with facts, but with more
questions and comments.

Unfortunately your fenny-award page is not available at this moment
(404-message), so if you have removed my posts, even without
letting me know about it, I am most grateful for your courtesy. And
if you haven't, everybody here knows now, that they are published
without my consent. This brands your behaviour, not my opinion.

Ann Mette Heindorff"

The page Mette talked about can be seen:
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://...award-2003.htm

See the two early pages but be aware that the first stored here was a
changed version from about 7 July 2003 when FIP told Victor to remove
their FIP-logo he had used without permission.

On the first page he also refer to Mette which reference was removed
on the second page.

Furthermore you can see that Victor published Francis Kiddle's e-mail
to him but that they later was removed.

When you have read the discussions I will be surprised if any of you
can think that Mette would ever had liked Victor to host her pages!
And that's (probably partly) why she handed over the rights to the
Danish organization www.motivsamler.dk.
--
Mvh Toke

Har du spurgt dit bibliotek om de har
min bog om postfolk 1624-1927 (1983)?:
http://www.norbyhus.dk/DDPE/

see inline comments

Bill

Sir F. A. Rien wrote:
Bill Sharpe found these unused words:


Victor Manta wrote:
"Toke Nørby" wrote in message
...
"Victor Manta" wrote:

snip for brevity
You can't expect Mette to "revoke" something you said to her. You made
a kind offer which she did not accept but that shouldn't force her to
revoke something.

I don't know why Toke understood that I made a proposal to Mette to keep her
site alive and that she rejected my proposal, the contrary being true. Maybe
it was a language problem. It is obvious that I could _promise_ something to
her only if she wanted it. She was then free to revoke later what we agreed
but she didn't, which was her right too.

As I wrote several months ago, if the mentioned organization will put the
ArtHistory site online then this will be a very good solution. But over 4
months passed and nothing happened, and for this reasons the questions asked
on this ng, mine included, are legitimate. For me it is not important who
publishes it, just that the site reappears. Therefore may I reiterate my
question:

How long should we still wait till the ArtHistory site appears on
motivsamler.dk, before solving the "problem" by ourselves????

Victor Manta


Victor
I'd say if you don't get your question answered within the next week go
ahead and post Mette's pages at your site. These excellent pages should
not be withheld from publication any longer.

Bill Sharpe

I'd say "Beware of COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT"!

Of course. Victor mentioned that he had promised to publish her pages. I
assume he had Mette's permission.

IF she has made arrangements, then she may have specifically passed her
copyright [donation] to the chosen organization.

Whatever we may think or wish, don't leave yourself open for legal action.

Perhaps a quick call/email to Linns may help settle your mind. I know
they're quick to enforce their 'rights'!

In what way is Linn's involved with this issue?

"Toke Nørby" wrote in message
...
"Victor Manta" wrote:

"Sir F. A. Rien" wrote in message
I'd say "Beware of COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT"!

IF she has made arrangements, then she may have specifically passed her
copyright [donation] to the chosen organization.

Whatever we may think or wish, don't leave yourself open for legal
action.

This is easy to understand! And Victor is probably about to "shoot
himself in his foot!"

Thanks for the "care" for my foot. IMHO, it will bring more if you contact
your fellow countryman Mr. Jørgensen, find out from him when will be
Mette's site published and inform us accordingly. This implies that Mr.
Jørgensen hasn't answered my message (yet?).

Search your memory (all of you) and please dig out the postings in ...
Snip, toooo old, toooo long and out of context tooooo.

Toke's red herring tactics and his ad hominem arguments won't either confuse
somebody here or change the fact that after 4 months this motivsamler.dk
site from his country hasn't published the ArtHistory site.

--
Victor Manta

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Philatelic Webmasters Organization: http://pwmo.org/
Art on Stamps: http://artonstamps.org/
Romania by Stamps: http://marci-postale.com/
Communism on Stamps: http://reds-on.postalstamps.biz/
Spanish North Africa: http://www.sna-on.postalstamps.biz/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Bill Sharpe" wrote in message
...
see inline comments

Bill

Sir F. A. Rien wrote:
Bill Sharpe found these unused words:


Victor Manta wrote:
"Toke Nørby" wrote in message
...
"Victor Manta" wrote:

snip for brevity
You can't expect Mette to "revoke" something you said to her. You made
a kind offer which she did not accept but that shouldn't force her to
revoke something.

I don't know why Toke understood that I made a proposal to Mette to
keep her site alive and that she rejected my proposal, the contrary
being true. Maybe it was a language problem. It is obvious that I could
_promise_ something to her only if she wanted it. She was then free to
revoke later what we agreed but she didn't, which was her right too.

As I wrote several months ago, if the mentioned organization will put
the ArtHistory site online then this will be a very good solution. But
over 4 months passed and nothing happened, and for this reasons the
questions asked on this ng, mine included, are legitimate. For me it is
not important who publishes it, just that the site reappears. Therefore
may I reiterate my question:

How long should we still wait till the ArtHistory site appears on
motivsamler.dk, before solving the "problem" by ourselves????

Victor Manta

Victor
I'd say if you don't get your question answered within the next week go
ahead and post Mette's pages at your site. These excellent pages should
not be withheld from publication any longer.

Bill Sharpe

I'd say "Beware of COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT"!

Of course. Victor mentioned that he had promised to publish her pages. I
assume he had Mette's permission.


That's correct, just that I'm not the only one to have it, and mine is very
old.

Nobody can know if Mette forgot (or wasn't able anymore?) to revoke my
permission, or if as an experienced lawyer she preferred to give two
permissions, hoping that at least one of both will result in the publishing
of her site.

Just to finally mention that I would be very pleased if somebody else, not
important who, will republish the ArtHistory site. My freely assumed
obligation is only to make sure that the thing is done, and to publish the
site if nobody else do it. I expected that this will expose me to all kind
of suspicions and even insults but this is the usual price to pay for such
"jobs".

--
Victor Manta

"Victor Manta" wrote:

"Toke Nørby" wrote in message
....snip
This is easy to understand! And Victor is probably about to "shoot
himself in his foot!"

Thanks for the "care" for my foot.

(It's hard to believe that you have any feet left, though! ;-)

IMHO, it will bring more if you contact
your fellow countryman Mr. Jørgensen, find out from him when will be
Mette's site published and inform us accordingly. This implies that Mr.
Jørgensen hasn't answered my message (yet?).

If YOU are interested in the progress YOU should wait for him to
answer your questions. You have imho no rights to demand him to do
anything. The rights are transferred to motivsamler.dk

Search your memory (all of you) and please dig out the postings in ...
Snip, toooo old, toooo long and out of context tooooo.

Toke's red herring tactics and his ad hominem arguments won't either confuse
somebody here or change the fact that after 4 months this motivsamler.dk
site from his country hasn't published the ArtHistory site.

That was not to distract any but to show that it's easy to understand
for all (probably all - except you) that Mette would not let you host
her site. She deeply disagreed in most of what you did/do. I have a
looong correspondence with her in which she comments what you did. Her
opinion did not change later. (I have re-read most of her e-mails to
me as I have kept them)

As I said earlier - I like her pages but I don't use them for anything
so I don't care where they are published. BUT - I care when it comes
to Mette's will and I'm only trying to do what I KNOW that Mette would
have liked me to do on this matter. And how long time it may take
before motivsamler.dk upload her pages is not your business.

(If any contacts Linn's please feel free to greet my personal friend
Michael Baadke from me. We had a nice time together in our summerhouse
some years back).
--
Mvh Toke

Har du spurgt dit bibliotek om de har
min bog om postfolk 1624-1927 (1983)?:
http://www.norbyhus.dk/DDPE/

"Toke Nørby" wrote in message
...
"Victor Manta" wrote:

"Toke Nørby" wrote in message
...snip
This is easy to understand! And Victor is probably about to "shoot
himself in his foot!"

Thanks for the "care" for my foot.

(It's hard to believe that you have any feet left, though! ;-)

IMHO, it will bring more if you contact
your fellow countryman Mr. Jørgensen, find out from him when will be
Mette's site published and inform us accordingly. This implies that Mr.
Jørgensen hasn't answered my message (yet?).

If YOU are interested in the progress YOU should wait for him to
answer your questions. You have imho no rights to demand him to do
anything. The rights are transferred to motivsamler.dk

You are wrong. If nothing happens at Mr. Jørgensen, I won't be alone to do
something that corresponds to Mette's will, which was to have her site
online again.

Search your memory (all of you) and please dig out the postings in ...
Snip, toooo old, toooo long and out of context tooooo.

Toke's red herring tactics and his ad hominem arguments won't either
confuse
somebody here or change the fact that after 4 months this motivsamler.dk
site from his country hasn't published the ArtHistory site.

That was not to distract any but to show that it's easy to understand
for all (probably all - except you) that Mette would not let you host
her site. She deeply disagreed in most of what you did/do. I have a
looong correspondence with her in which she comments what you did. Her
opinion did not change later. (I have re-read most of her e-mails to
me as I have kept them)

As I said earlier - I like her pages but I don't use them for anything
so I don't care where they are published. BUT - I care when it comes
to Mette's will and I'm only trying to do what I KNOW that Mette would
have liked me to do on this matter. And how long time it may take
before motivsamler.dk upload her pages is not your business.
snip

You are wrong again. It is not relevant on what Mette and I agreed or
disagreed in time (there were many things), and it is actually not of your
business. It it obvious that you are not fully informed, and how could you
be, when it concerns a complex relationship and a philatelic collaboration
that lasted, avec des hauts et des bas, about a decade?

Conclusion. I, and/or other participants here, will do, if it will be the
case, that what Mette wanted, which was to maintain her site online. After
having reread your postings it is clear to me that we, those who want see
ArtHistory online again, can't count on you (that you do something useful)
and for this reason our discusion is over.

Victor Manta