If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Buying coins on Ebay?
Has there been much selling of fake ancient coins on Ebay? I mean, how can
buyers tell what they are getting? As far as the positive feedback, I assume most of the buyers would not know a fake from a real coin to begin with. So, the positive feedback is a bunch of bull. Not a good way to judge material. Also, many buyers are reluctant to give negative feedback so instead you will see a lot of "OK" or "Good" with a positive rating when the buyer is really feeling negative. They don't give negative because they don't want to receive a negative rating from the seller. Where is the best, cheapest, trustworthy place to buy ancient coins? Jimmy |
Ads |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:31:42 -0400, "Jimmy Smith"
wrote: Where is the best, cheapest, trustworthy place to buy ancient coins? There is no one market that meets these conditions. Different markets for ancient coins have different pluses and minuses. eBay is fine if you buy from reputable sellers or really know the coins you're buying but can otherwise be a good place to get scammed. VCoins is a higher grade, higher safety, higher price market. U.S. and European catalog auctions are typically higher still, with exceptions. Buying in person at major national or international coin shows let you see coins in person but there's the inconvenience factor in getting there and some shows (NY Int'l) at very ritzy hotels in very expensive cities force dealers to recoup their costs through their pricing. -- Email: (delete "remove this") Consumer: http://rg.ancients.info/guide Connoisseur: http://rg.ancients.info/glom Counterfeit: http://rg.ancients.info/bogos |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
"Jimmy Smith" wrote:
Has there been much selling of fake ancient coins on Ebay? ... most of the buyers would not know a fake from a real coin ... Where is the best, cheapest, trustworthy place to buy ancient coins? I do not buy anything on eBay. Positives can be manipulated. Buyers and sellers are anonymous. I usually save my money and go to numismatic conventions hosted by coin clubs, especially the larger regional and national shows put on by the American Numismatic Association and by clubs that are ANA members. I have also shopped via the mail, generally patronizing those dealers who advertise in THE CELATOR, the leading magazine for collectors of ancients. In fact, rather that buying from anyone, if you are interested in ancients, you should start with a subscription to The Celator. In numismatics, we often cite the words of Aaron Feldman: "Buy the book before you buy the coin." In addition to The Celator, there is a series of books by Wayne Sayles, published by Krause. (Sayles founded The Celator; it is now owned by Kerry Wetterstrom.) The problem of fakes in numismatics generally is very real and in ancients all the more so. A recent report published in The Celator tells of fakes salted into cheap "uncleaned" lots of Roman coins. If you go to coin shows you get to see the coins. You will learn to spot the easy fakes. More knowledge brings more confidence. At some level, you have to minimize your risk by patronizing trusted sellers. That means participating in the hobby. There is some overhead cost in this. However, there is no such thing as a free lunch. Ultimately, you pay as much as you would have if you had done the job right the first time. We in America do not stand up often enough for capitalism and the free enterprise system. You go to the grocery store; you pay $1.29 for a can of soup and lo! you get a can of soup. You click up Travelocity, give them your credit card number and lo! you really do have reservation on a jetliner. We never question it. eBay is more like a Third World open air market. It is a totally different kind of trade and commerce than we are used to. Yes, there are many bargains, but only because there is also greater risk. Here is my review of THE CELATOR: http://www.coin-newbies.com/articles/celator.html Here is a link to the books of Wayne Sayles: http://ancientcoins.ac Michael ANA R-162953 MSNS 7935 |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Michael,
Thanks for your answer. Both you and Reid have been most helpful to this beginner. BTW, I too have read The Fountainhead (twice) and Atlas Shrugged. The books are life changers. Jimmy "Michael E. Marotta" wrote in message m... "Jimmy Smith" wrote: Has there been much selling of fake ancient coins on Ebay? ... most of the buyers would not know a fake from a real coin ... Where is the best, cheapest, trustworthy place to buy ancient coins? I do not buy anything on eBay. Positives can be manipulated. Buyers and sellers are anonymous. I usually save my money and go to numismatic conventions hosted by coin clubs, especially the larger regional and national shows put on by the American Numismatic Association and by clubs that are ANA members. I have also shopped via the mail, generally patronizing those dealers who advertise in THE CELATOR, the leading magazine for collectors of ancients. In fact, rather that buying from anyone, if you are interested in ancients, you should start with a subscription to The Celator. In numismatics, we often cite the words of Aaron Feldman: "Buy the book before you buy the coin." In addition to The Celator, there is a series of books by Wayne Sayles, published by Krause. (Sayles founded The Celator; it is now owned by Kerry Wetterstrom.) The problem of fakes in numismatics generally is very real and in ancients all the more so. A recent report published in The Celator tells of fakes salted into cheap "uncleaned" lots of Roman coins. If you go to coin shows you get to see the coins. You will learn to spot the easy fakes. More knowledge brings more confidence. At some level, you have to minimize your risk by patronizing trusted sellers. That means participating in the hobby. There is some overhead cost in this. However, there is no such thing as a free lunch. Ultimately, you pay as much as you would have if you had done the job right the first time. We in America do not stand up often enough for capitalism and the free enterprise system. You go to the grocery store; you pay $1.29 for a can of soup and lo! you get a can of soup. You click up Travelocity, give them your credit card number and lo! you really do have reservation on a jetliner. We never question it. eBay is more like a Third World open air market. It is a totally different kind of trade and commerce than we are used to. Yes, there are many bargains, but only because there is also greater risk. Here is my review of THE CELATOR: http://www.coin-newbies.com/articles/celator.html Here is a link to the books of Wayne Sayles: http://ancientcoins.ac Michael ANA R-162953 MSNS 7935 |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
In , on 10/16/2004
at 09:20 AM, "Jimmy Smith" said: Thanks for your answer. Both you and Reid have been most helpful to this beginner. BTW, I too have read The Fountainhead (twice) and Atlas Shrugged. The books are life changers. Unfortunately, I didn't see what Reid said. And while he was technically accurate in much of his froth, what Michael gave you was an extremely slanted, as usual, hard-sell. I'm note that Michael actually writes columns, and I assume from this be produces income from the Celator. Keep this in mind while you read his "review". It seems to be a great publication, but I've always hesitated to subscribe simply because he DOES write for it. Perhaps this is my own version of the "eBay is Evil" chant, but I wonder if the other Celator authors are as off-base as MM. eBay has many traps. Yet there is no shortage of coins sold there; well established dealers and knowledgable buyers (and this includes the "specialty" of ancient coins). All using eBay successfully with mininal "risk". In fact, my biggest gripe with eBay nowadays is that the buying competition is too strong and prices often go above what fixed-price lists. The Transylvanian taler I pointed out a couple of weeks ago makes a good case in point; a piece selling for $200 more than a better piece's price I had passed on at the ANA. Warning folks to stay away from eBay is silly. It's similar to warnings like this: - Stay out of all National Parks. You might get attacked by a wild animal. Metro-parks are much safer. - If you must drive, don't drive on the freeway. Too fast and dangerous! Best not to drive at all, tho. - Don't claim any tax deductions, even if they are legal and earned - this might raise red flags with the IRS and you might get audited. I could go on ... but I'll spare you (all . There obviously is fraud on eBay. And it might be heaviest in the area of ancients. However, there ARE reputable dealers on eBay, some that will guarantee a coin as genuine. Silly "rules" that warn you to stay away assumes no intelligence, which ironically feeds directly on the audience that can't see hard-sell. Don't discount eBay. Use it with caution? Ask about deals/dealers here, questionable or not. Lurk for awhile and see if a persistent dealer in ancient coins continues to get good feedback. Use it as a learning tool ... as "the book". In other words, think for yourself and don't let 1-2 over-opinionated folks here send you down the wrong path. How hard is it to tell that an 1805 Seated Dollar is fake? How dangerous is this coin, in reality? If you surround yourself with odoriferous foods and sit in the middle of the "bear management" area of Smokey Mountains National Park, you MIGHT encounter a bear (didn't work for my group , and it MIGHT end up being interested in you. If a bear isn't what you want, don't do that!!? Nick |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 14:23:42 GMT, "Nick Knight"
wrote: eBay has many traps. Yet there is no shortage of coins sold there; well established dealers and knowledgable buyers (and this includes the "specialty" of ancient coins). All using eBay successfully with mininal This is exactly right. Michael and I are miles apart regarding eBay. Michael has said he has never bought a coin there and he recommends that others don't either. I've bought many, many coins there, as have many, many people in this newsgroup -- U.S., world, and ancient -- and I and others have gotten some very good deals. I've also sold a fair share of coins on eBay and have done well also on the whole, which in some cases means I've just gotten back my cost for the coin, which is fine -- better than I would have done if I had sold to a dealer or consigned to an auction house. eBay eliminates the middleman and the often substantial costs involved. For a very low transaction cost, you buy or sell directly, without having to pay a dealer a markup when buying and an even higher markup when selling. I've yet to be scammed on eBay, because I'm careful. That's my point, and yours too. eBay can still be a bargain hunter's paradise and a smart and cost-effective way to deal coins. Regarding Jimmy's initial post, here's a list of reliable, recommended eBay sellers of ancient coins, which I've posted here before. This isn't a complete list, but buying from these dealers will significantly reduce eBay's inherent risk. Recommended Dealers of Ancients Coins on eBay (alphabetical order by last name) Parviz Ahghari of Pars Coins parscoins Plamen Arsoff of Ancient Treasures ancient_treasures Kevin Barry of Barry & Darling Ancient Coins tiberius Elia Demetrious of Quality Ancient Coins q.a.coins Brad Bowlin of Eukratides Ancient Numismatics eukratides Dimitre Genov of Ancient Auction House ancientauctionhouse.com David Hendin of Amphora Coins amphoracoins Joe Karon of Atlantic Treasure Coins littlejoe8668 Matt Kreuzer of Old Roman Coins-Classical Cash oldromancoins Ilian Lalev of Ancient Caesar ancientcaesar John Lavender of Atlantis Atlantis Mike Malter of Malter Galleries malter-galleries Barbara Francesca Serofilli of Mediterranean Coins mediterraneancoins Clark Smith of Gold Hill Coins clarksmith -- Email: (delete "remove this") Consumer: http://rg.ancients.info/guide Connoisseur: http://rg.ancients.info/glom Counterfeit: http://rg.ancients.info/bogos |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Thanks for the list of possible Ebay dealers. Do you have a personal
opinion on Toni Hristov from Caesarscoins on Ebay? Jimmy "Reid Goldsborough" wrote in message ... On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 14:23:42 GMT, "Nick Knight" wrote: eBay has many traps. Yet there is no shortage of coins sold there; well established dealers and knowledgable buyers (and this includes the "specialty" of ancient coins). All using eBay successfully with mininal This is exactly right. Michael and I are miles apart regarding eBay. Michael has said he has never bought a coin there and he recommends that others don't either. I've bought many, many coins there, as have many, many people in this newsgroup -- U.S., world, and ancient -- and I and others have gotten some very good deals. I've also sold a fair share of coins on eBay and have done well also on the whole, which in some cases means I've just gotten back my cost for the coin, which is fine -- better than I would have done if I had sold to a dealer or consigned to an auction house. eBay eliminates the middleman and the often substantial costs involved. For a very low transaction cost, you buy or sell directly, without having to pay a dealer a markup when buying and an even higher markup when selling. I've yet to be scammed on eBay, because I'm careful. That's my point, and yours too. eBay can still be a bargain hunter's paradise and a smart and cost-effective way to deal coins. Regarding Jimmy's initial post, here's a list of reliable, recommended eBay sellers of ancient coins, which I've posted here before. This isn't a complete list, but buying from these dealers will significantly reduce eBay's inherent risk. Recommended Dealers of Ancients Coins on eBay (alphabetical order by last name) Parviz Ahghari of Pars Coins parscoins Plamen Arsoff of Ancient Treasures ancient_treasures Kevin Barry of Barry & Darling Ancient Coins tiberius Elia Demetrious of Quality Ancient Coins q.a.coins Brad Bowlin of Eukratides Ancient Numismatics eukratides Dimitre Genov of Ancient Auction House ancientauctionhouse.com David Hendin of Amphora Coins amphoracoins Joe Karon of Atlantic Treasure Coins littlejoe8668 Matt Kreuzer of Old Roman Coins-Classical Cash oldromancoins Ilian Lalev of Ancient Caesar ancientcaesar John Lavender of Atlantis Atlantis Mike Malter of Malter Galleries malter-galleries Barbara Francesca Serofilli of Mediterranean Coins mediterraneancoins Clark Smith of Gold Hill Coins clarksmith -- Email: (delete "remove this") Consumer: http://rg.ancients.info/guide Connoisseur: http://rg.ancients.info/glom Counterfeit: http://rg.ancients.info/bogos |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 09:32:44 -0400, "Jimmy Smith"
wrote: Thanks for the list of possible Ebay dealers. Do you have a personal opinion on Toni Hristov from Caesarscoins on Ebay? I've bought two ancient coins from him, and both arrived and were as described. Some of his coins have been questioned in the mailing list discussion group Coin Forgery Discussion List, but like this newsgroup (and others), that discussion group has a few angry people who can drown out more reasonable discussion. On the other hand, at least one credible person credibly questioned two of his coins. On the third hand, the dealer in question sells a lot of coins ... as I see in checking his current offerings ... and it's inevitable that fakes occasionally do slip through even with the most trustworthy ancients dealers. On the fourth hand, he appears to be one of these European direct sellers, someone fairly close to the source, but not necessarily a numismatist. His attributions appear to be pretty good, though they're not on the level of a CNG, HJB, etc., but then again you wouldn't expect them to be. Risk/reward. Your call. g -- Email: (delete "remove this") Consumer: http://rg.ancients.info/guide Connoisseur: http://rg.ancients.info/glom Counterfeit: http://rg.ancients.info/bogos |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Buying coins on Ebay?
On Saturday, October 16, 2004 at 11:46:53 PM UTC+5, Reid Goldsborough wrote:
On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 14:23:42 GMT, "Nick Knight" wrote: eBay has many traps. Yet there is no shortage of coins sold there; well established dealers and knowledgable buyers (and this includes the "specialty" of ancient coins). All using eBay successfully with mininal This is exactly right. Michael and I are miles apart regarding eBay. Michael has said he has never bought a coin there and he recommends that others don't either. I've bought many, many coins there, as have many, many people in this newsgroup -- U.S., world, and ancient -- and I and others have gotten some very good deals. I've also sold a fair share of coins on eBay and have done well also on the whole, which in some cases means I've just gotten back my cost for the coin, which is fine -- better than I would have done if I had sold to a dealer or consigned to an auction house. eBay eliminates the middleman and the often substantial costs involved. For a very low transaction cost, you buy or sell directly, without having to pay a dealer a markup when buying and an even higher markup when selling. I've yet to be scammed on eBay, because I'm careful. That's my point, and yours too. eBay can still be a bargain hunter's paradise and a smart and cost-effective way to deal coins. Regarding Jimmy's initial post, here's a list of reliable, recommended eBay sellers of ancient coins, which I've posted here before. This isn't a complete list, but buying from these dealers will significantly reduce eBay's inherent risk. Recommended Dealers of Ancients Coins on eBay (alphabetical order by last name) Parviz Ahghari of Pars Coins parscoins Plamen Arsoff of Ancient Treasures ancient_treasures Kevin Barry of Barry & Darling Ancient Coins tiberius Elia Demetrious of Quality Ancient Coins q.a.coins Brad Bowlin of Eukratides Ancient Numismatics eukratides Dimitre Genov of Ancient Auction House ancientauctionhouse.com David Hendin of Amphora Coins amphoracoins Joe Karon of Atlantic Treasure Coins littlejoe8668 Matt Kreuzer of Old Roman Coins-Classical Cash oldromancoins Ilian Lalev of Ancient Caesar ancientcaesar John Lavender of Atlantis Atlantis Mike Malter of Malter Galleries malter-galleries Barbara Francesca Serofilli of Mediterranean Coins mediterraneancoins Clark Smith of Gold Hill Coins clarksmith -- Email: (delete "remove this") Consumer: http://rg.ancients.info/guide Connoisseur: http://rg.ancients.info/glom Counterfeit: http://rg.ancients.info/bogos does any one want to buy my coins or stamps |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
New eBay policy on coins | Reid Goldsborough | Coins | 7 | July 7th 04 05:21 PM |
do not forward OFF this group that Xlist | dahoov2 | Autographs | 4 | March 9th 04 03:45 AM |
US Territories and... | Grandpa | Coins | 29 | September 22nd 03 08:11 PM |
Coin Talk Needs You | Peter T Davis | Coins | 51 | September 16th 03 01:19 AM |
Coin grading/authentication services -- periodic post | Linda | Coins | 6 | August 8th 03 06:25 AM |