what else do you collect?

On Thu, 7 Jun 2007 23:56:20 +0300, "gogu"
wrote:

? "tony cooper" ?????? ??? ??????
.. .
On Thu, 7 Jun 2007 02:09:05 +0300, "gogu"
wrote:

It is normal that in every city there is some grade of criminality, what I
said is that in Europe criminality is much lower than in the US (comparing
similar cities, capital with capital, etc)!

If you can back up that statement, you will be doing something that
I've never seen done before.

You mean done by me or generally?!
As for backing up my statement I can't back it up with an on-line reference
but I can assure you that I read many times in newspaper and magazines
articles about that and there were statistics with source, methodology etc!

Exactly. My whole point is that those statistics, and the methodology
of compiling those statistics, make statements like yours almost
meaningless.

If you are really interested in seeing them, next time I come across such an
article I'll keep the page, scan it and send it to you for review.

Assuming you mean "crime rate", and not "criminality" (which means the
quality of being a criminal and not the act of committing a crime),
statistics on this are fuzzy at very best.

Of course, you know that my English is not that good;-)

I'm not critical of your English, but is important to change that term
to the correct term in order to discuss the subject.

I would agree that you are more likely to get shot in the US than you
are in, say, the UK. However, I'm not in agreement that you are more
likely to be the victim of a crime in the US compared to the UK.


OK, I will agree with you in this final statement of yours, but please don't
forget that we were discussing fire arms here!

Yes, you were. However you were also discussing "feeling safe". I
don't feel safe when I'm in a situation where I can be robbed,
molested, attacked, or otherwise endangered. The feeling has nothing
to do with what implement I'm attacked with. I'm just as worried
about getting a "Glasgow kiss" from a mugger as I am being faced with
a handgun. It is the presence of danger, and not the implement of
danger, that makes me feel unsafe.


You are correct in what you say and that's why I compared Amsterdam with
N.York in my previous posting, I wanted to compare cities which have the
same status in the respective countries...

And if we are talking about violent crimes (and not robberies, burglaries,
etc), then again statistics are "against" the US...

See, that's problem with statistics. Break out robberies where there
was a threat of a gun and only include robberies where there was the
use of a gun, and you have skewed statistics. Consider a robbery with
a threat from a tire iron or a knife as not a violent crime because a
gun isn't involved, and you further skew the statistics.


I visit US once a year and I live there for 15-30 days (N.Jersey), I am
sorry to say that but in the US I feel less secure than in the good old
Europe...

Sure. Now tell me you could spend 15-30 days in Riga, the capital of
Latvia, and feel safer than you would in Trenton, the capital of New
Jersey. The difference isn't Europe or the US; the difference is
where in Europe and where in the US.

But you said "UK", what about Germany for instance?...
Or Belgium?...
Or Portugal?...
Do you really think that you have the same possibility to be a victim of a
crime (any kind of crime) in those countries as in the US?

Yes. Certainly. Less likely to be shot, just as likely to be robbed
if I'm in a section of town where the crime rate is high.

Actually, I did come close to being robbed in Brussels. A gypsy kid
came up to me with a newspaper covering his hands and started crying
and speaking in a language I didn't understand. A good diversion
until I noticed that one hand was reaching towards my jacket pocket.

What country has the highest crime rate per capita in Europe? Vatican
City. You can look it up.


--


Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

? "tony cooper" ?????? ??? ??????
...
On Thu, 7 Jun 2007 23:56:20 +0300, "gogu"
wrote:

I visit US once a year and I live there for 15-30 days (N.Jersey), I am
sorry to say that but in the US I feel less secure than in the good old
Europe...


Sure. Now tell me you could spend 15-30 days in Riga, the capital of
Latvia, and feel safer than you would in Trenton, the capital of New
Jersey. The difference isn't Europe or the US; the difference is
where in Europe and where in the US.

Maybe to your surprise I spend quite a lot of time in Romania and Bulgaria,
considered two of the most "dangerous" countries in Europe...
I have a constructions business with contracts in Romania and my wife has a
clothing factory in Bulgaria.
Will you believe me if I say that I feel safer in Sofia or Bucharest
(generally speaking) than in N.Y?...
Of course you have always to be careful where you are going and avoid
notorious "bad" neighborhoods...


But you said "UK", what about Germany for instance?...
Or Belgium?...
Or Portugal?...
Do you really think that you have the same possibility to be a victim of a
crime (any kind of crime) in those countries as in the US?


Yes. Certainly. Less likely to be shot, just as likely to be robbed
if I'm in a section of town where the crime rate is high.

See, that's the problem.
I speak about the "general" feeling you have going around in a city!
Even at the most secure sections of N.Y I have that "watch out" feeling
which is much smaller in any European capital...

Actually, I did come close to being robbed in Brussels.

Sure, who said that there is a citry without criminality?!

A gypsy kid
came up to me with a newspaper covering his hands and started crying
and speaking in a language I didn't understand. A good diversion
until I noticed that one hand was reaching towards my jacket pocket.

LOL
This is what we call here "imported crime", that gypsy was more than sure a
Romanian gypsy;-)
Europe is full of them after the fall of the commie regimes in their
countries.
Nevertheless I am sure you feel much safer (generally speaking) in Brussels
than in N.Y!

What country has the highest crime rate per capita in Europe? Vatican
City. You can look it up.

:-)
This is one of those cases where numbers can be interpreted the way one
likes:-)
But seriously speaking I *think* London is the more dangerous capital among
the west European capitals...


--

E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and mo http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html

gogu wrote:

Nevertheless I am sure you feel much safer (generally speaking) in Brussels
than in N.Y!

What country has the highest crime rate per capita in Europe? Vatican
City. You can look it up.

:-)

Vatican City also has the lowest birth rate of any country in the
world. Wonder why?
Staying out of the 'gun' fray for the time being, but may jump back in
at any time. 8-)

On Fri, 8 Jun 2007 01:18:22 +0300, "gogu"
wrote:

? "tony cooper" ?????? ??? ??????
.. .
On Thu, 7 Jun 2007 23:56:20 +0300, "gogu"
wrote:

I visit US once a year and I live there for 15-30 days (N.Jersey), I am
sorry to say that but in the US I feel less secure than in the good old
Europe...


Sure. Now tell me you could spend 15-30 days in Riga, the capital of
Latvia, and feel safer than you would in Trenton, the capital of New
Jersey. The difference isn't Europe or the US; the difference is
where in Europe and where in the US.

Maybe to your surprise I spend quite a lot of time in Romania and Bulgaria,
considered two of the most "dangerous" countries in Europe...
I have a constructions business with contracts in Romania and my wife has a
clothing factory in Bulgaria.
Will you believe me if I say that I feel safer in Sofia or Bucharest
(generally speaking) than in N.Y?...

Certainly I believe you. But I also believe you feel closer to home,
are more familiar with the cities, and know where you can and cannot
go in those cities. You also may have a language advantage.
All those factors contribute to the "feel safer" thing.

I feel safer in NYC than I would in Sofia because I've been to NYC
many times, I know where to go and where not to go, and because I
understand the language. If some menacing looking guy comes up to me
in Sofia and asks me if I know where the bus stops, I feel a little
bit unsafe because I don't know he's asking where the bus stops.

See, that's the problem.
I speak about the "general" feeling you have going around in a city!
Even at the most secure sections of N.Y I have that "watch out" feeling
which is much smaller in any European capital...

Well, that's you. You've been reading too many tabloids.



This is one of those cases where numbers can be interpreted the way one
likes:-)

Yep. My point in a nutshell.

But seriously speaking I *think* London is the more dangerous capital among
the west European capitals...

I've heard Dublin. With my heritage, I hate to hear that. The last
time I was in Dub, though, I could see the change.

--


Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

On Wed, 30 May 2007 22:13:59 GMT, lid wrote:

there isn't a really valid reason. but i know people who
carry guns "because they can." i avoid them. when your only
tool is a gun, all you see are targets.

I'd suggest a slight change - when you're a criminal with a gun, all you
see are victims. If you know they're disarmed by law, you know you're
safe to attack them.

Guns in the hands of good people aren't a threat to anyone but bad
people.

? "Jud" ?????? ??? ??????
oups.com...

gogu wrote:

Nevertheless I am sure you feel much safer (generally speaking) in
Brussels
than in N.Y!


What country has the highest crime rate per capita in Europe? Vatican
City. You can look it up.


:-)


Vatican City also has the lowest birth rate of any country in the
world. Wonder why?


LOL
Right Jud, that's a fine example how one can (mis)read statistics if he
doesn't look at the whole picture!


Staying out of the 'gun' fray for the time being, but may jump back in
at any time. 8-)

I am already out, no need to perpetuate it, obviously we disagree on a few
things but hey, that's the beauty of the discussion:-)

--

E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and mo http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html

? "tony cooper" ?????? ??? ??????
...
On Fri, 8 Jun 2007 01:18:22 +0300, "gogu"
wrote:

Sure. Now tell me you could spend 15-30 days in Riga, the capital of
Latvia, and feel safer than you would in Trenton, the capital of New
Jersey. The difference isn't Europe or the US; the difference is
where in Europe and where in the US.


Maybe to your surprise I spend quite a lot of time in Romania and
Bulgaria,
considered two of the most "dangerous" countries in Europe...
I have a constructions business with contracts in Romania and my wife has
a
clothing factory in Bulgaria.
Will you believe me if I say that I feel safer in Sofia or Bucharest
(generally speaking) than in N.Y?...


Certainly I believe you. But I also believe you feel closer to home,
are more familiar with the cities, and know where you can and cannot
go in those cities. You also may have a language advantage.
All those factors contribute to the "feel safer" thing.

Hmmm...you certainly have a point here but even in Italy I feel safer even
at the moment when back in the 80's a person was shot just in front of me by
the police at the Santa Maria Novella station in Florence...
The general feeling though was that of security in Florence or Perugia where
I lived fro a short time.
In Rome OTOH I felt less secure...
In Milan, something between Florence and Rome.
So it also depends on the city and other factors as you say.
But I feel quite safe in France or in Spain even if I a not familiar with
life, people, etc!
Probably it also depends of how much experience you have to live in
different countries, different cultures...

I feel safer in NYC than I would in Sofia because I've been to NYC
many times, I know where to go and where not to go, and because I
understand the language.

True.

If some menacing looking guy comes up to me
in Sofia and asks me if I know where the bus stops, I feel a little
bit unsafe because I don't know he's asking where the bus stops.

Well, I don't speak German except...4-5 words but I *never* felt
uncomfortable in Germany, on the contrary!
Germany is one of the countries I feel the most secure.

See, that's the problem.
I speak about the "general" feeling you have going around in a city!
Even at the most secure sections of N.Y I have that "watch out" feeling
which is much smaller in any European capital...


Well, that's you. You've been reading too many tabloids.

No, it's my *personal* experience visiting and living (near) NY for about a
month every year!

But seriously speaking I *think* London is the more dangerous capital
among
the west European capitals...


I've heard Dublin. With my heritage, I hate to hear that. The last
time I was in Dub, though, I could see the change.

I've never been in Dublin, I wonder how it is!

rgrds and a nice weekend to everybody!

--

E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and mo http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html

"gogu" wrote in message news:f4c6h8
Hmmm...you certainly have a point here but even in Italy I feel safer even
at the moment when back in the 80's a person was shot just in front of me
by
the police at the Santa Maria Novella station in Florence...
The general feeling though was that of security in Florence or Perugia
where
I lived fro a short time.
In Rome OTOH I felt less secure...
In Milan, something between Florence and Rome.
So it also depends on the city and other factors as you say.
But I feel quite safe in France or in Spain even if I a not familiar with
life, people, etc!
Probably it also depends of how much experience you have to live in
different countries, different cultures...

Well, I don't speak German except...4-5 words but I *never* felt
uncomfortable in Germany, on the contrary!
Germany is one of the countries I feel the most secure.


No, it's my *personal* experience visiting and living (near) NY for about
a
month every year!

But seriously speaking I *think* London is the more dangerous capital
among
the west European capitals...

The city that is one of my favourites in Europe is Paris, but I do not like
it in the summer when you are hounded by urchins trying to get your money.
In that sense, I felt like I was always looking over my shoulder there.
Same in Amsterdam, you really do not have to be afraid of violent crime like
in American cities, but more petty crimes of wallet thefts, pickpockets etc.

In Stockholm everything is a lot different, or at least when I was there,
definately a cleaner looking crowd hanging out there. Only place in Europe
where I encountered a bit of real unease was in Hamburg where I was talking
to someone in a market and someone heard me speaking in English and came up
and yelled "Auslander raust den Hamburg" sp? basically foreigner get out of
Hamburg. Actually it appeared from his appearance that he really was the
one that wanted to get out of Hamburg, but a probable drug induced mental
deficiency rendered that impossible.

I have travelled in USSR, and then ex USSR and never really felt
uncomfortable being a foreigner there, even with an encounter with the KGB
once. In fact the USSR was the first foreign country I had ever travelled
in, but for me Russia is special place and I could care less about KGB and
frontier guards!

On Fri, 8 Jun 2007 22:15:19 -0400, "Sibirskmoneta"
wrote:

I have travelled in USSR, and then ex USSR and never really felt
uncomfortable being a foreigner there, even with an encounter with the KGB
once. In fact the USSR was the first foreign country I had ever travelled
in, but for me Russia is special place and I could care less about KGB and
frontier guards!


My daughter-in-law was standing in line at a McDonald's and there was
a delay because the customer at the counter was having trouble placing
his order because of a language problem. The lady standing behind my
daughter-in-law became impatient and turned to my daughter-in-law and
nastily said "Don't you wish these foreigners would go home?"

My daughter-in-law is from Russia. She's been here eight years,
speaks flawless English, and has a university degree in English.
However, she pretended that she didn't understand English and let
loose a string of Russian at the lady.


--


Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

"Sibirskmoneta" wrote in message
...


The city that is one of my favourites in Europe is Paris, but I do not
like it in the summer when you are hounded by urchins trying to get your
money.

The lady next door was in Paris and got mugged by children, or would have,
if not for the fact that her daughter flew into action slapping and kicking
the children until they scattered.