International coin sales

Today I received a message from an overseas buyer that a coin had not
arrived. I pondered for a moment about which one of us should take the
loss, then issued him a refund. Selling internationally definitely has
drawbacks. Methods of shipping that can be insured are expensive, so
would discourage any bidding on less expensive items.

Only a few of my buyers have lived outside the US, so I decided it
wasn't worth it to ship overseas anymore. I had written before that
selling coins overseas was no problem. I retract that statement. There
are a lot of buyers in the US, so there is really no point in sending
an uninsured coin elsewhere and hoping that it gets to its
destination.

The loss was small, fortunately. I guess one could say it was an
inexpensive lesson.

Anita

On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 15:50:48 GMT, Anita wrote:

Today I received a message from an overseas buyer that a coin had not
arrived. I pondered for a moment about which one of us should take the
loss, then issued him a refund. Selling internationally definitely has
drawbacks. Methods of shipping that can be insured are expensive, so
would discourage any bidding on less expensive items.

Only a few of my buyers have lived outside the US, so I decided it
wasn't worth it to ship overseas anymore. I had written before that
selling coins overseas was no problem. I retract that statement. There
are a lot of buyers in the US, so there is really no point in sending
an uninsured coin elsewhere and hoping that it gets to its
destination.

The loss was small, fortunately. I guess one could say it was an
inexpensive lesson.

Anita

It's certainly unfortunate, but you can offer (a) insured shipping, or
(b) registered mail, in addition to normal shipping. If the buyer opts
for the cheap unregistered airmail or whatever, it is their risk, not
yours.

There are scumbags out there who will keep your coin and claim that
they never received it. This isn't limited just to international
buyers, either.

--
Bob Hairgrove

Bob Hairgrove wrote:
It's certainly unfortunate, but you can offer (a) insured shipping,
or
(b) registered mail, in addition to normal shipping. If the buyer
opts
for the cheap unregistered airmail or whatever, it is their risk, not
yours.



Is that really true Bob?

I have never had a problem shipping inside or outside the US, but I
feel that *I* am taking a risk. Even if the buyer chooses not to insure
the purchase, I believe that I am still liable. I've seen the
discussions here before on the issue and always wondered what would
prevent Paypal from "charging-back" if the buyer used Paypal and didn't
receive the item. Does Paypal consider whether the seller offered
insurance?

When I win an auction, I rarely purchase insurance if I'm using Paypal.
I expect the seller to ensure that the item gets to me and is
undamaged.

I would be interested in hearing what others think.

Roger

Bob Hairgrove wrote:
It's certainly unfortunate, but you can offer (a) insured shipping,
or
(b) registered mail, in addition to normal shipping. If the buyer
opts
for the cheap unregistered airmail or whatever, it is their risk, not
yours.



Is that really true Bob?

I have never had a problem shipping inside or outside the US, but I
feel that *I* am taking a risk. Even if the buyer chooses not to insure
the purchase, I believe that I am still liable. I've seen the
discussions here before on the issue and always wondered what would
prevent Paypal from "charging-back" if the buyer used Paypal and didn't
receive the item. Does Paypal consider whether the seller offered
insurance?

When I win an auction, I rarely purchase insurance if I'm using Paypal.
I expect the seller to ensure that the item gets to me and is
undamaged.

I would be interested in hearing what others think.

Roger

On 29 Apr 2005 12:50:00 -0700, "trojan66"
wrote:
....
I have never had a problem shipping inside or outside the US, but I
feel that *I* am taking a risk. Even if the buyer chooses not to insure
the purchase, I believe that I am still liable...

Having just gone through this, Roger, I can say that what you wrote is
exactly how I felt. Neither the buyer or seller were "guilty," but I
felt that it was my place to get the coin to his door. I didn't know I
would feel this way about it until this morning.

There are guaranteed services to most countries, but these express or
registered services are very expensive. Not choosing one of the
guaranteed services does put the seller at risk. However, choosing one
for shipping would make international buyers shy away from an auction,
anyway. Or worse -- the bidder would bid without looking at shipping
costs, then renege or leave negative feedback.

This is the first problem I've had with international shipments, but
I've not had that many shipments. If one out of every ten or so
shipments gets lost, it would be expensive over time. This is my
experience right now, so I'm pulling in until I can figure out a
better way of shipping overseas.

What we need is an international post office :-)

Anita

Hello Anita and group

I live in Australia and have this theory on international shipping as most
things I buy are not from Australia.
Under $ 10 I have sent at buyers risk and if it does not arrive it is my bad
luck.
Over $ 10 send registered mail.
One of the best descriptions on items is International buyers contact me for
shipping rates then the seller can explain exactly what has to be done, then
I make a decision on what I want to do according to information provided by
the seller.
Most times I want the item and buy it.
Best Regards
Andrew Australia.



"Anita" wrote in message
...
Today I received a message from an overseas buyer that a coin had not
arrived. I pondered for a moment about which one of us should take the
loss, then issued him a refund. Selling internationally definitely has
drawbacks. Methods of shipping that can be insured are expensive, so
would discourage any bidding on less expensive items.

Only a few of my buyers have lived outside the US, so I decided it
wasn't worth it to ship overseas anymore. I had written before that
selling coins overseas was no problem. I retract that statement. There
are a lot of buyers in the US, so there is really no point in sending
an uninsured coin elsewhere and hoping that it gets to its
destination.

The loss was small, fortunately. I guess one could say it was an
inexpensive lesson.

Anita

This is a subject that always disappoints me. I always make it clear on my
auctions that insured and uninsured options are available and if a buyer
chooses uninsured postage it is sent at their risk. I will obtain proof of
posting and the risk is then with the purchaser. I have had a couple of
items not arrive that were sent, both were to eastern european destinations
and a copy of the proof of posting was photographed and sent to the buyer as
evidence of posting. To date I have not had a problem and both buyers
accepted the risk they took. I have never had anyone "charge back", but feel
I could succesfully argue a case with Paypal should the situation arise. I
cannot believe that Paypal can just deduct payment without first
establishing both sides of the story and will wait for that day to arrive
before I cut out my international market. In my opinion I feel that the
increase in auction amounts due to international bidders outweighs the risk
of a potential problem and justifies offering international post.

As a buyer I purchase a lot of my items from other countries and find it
astounding how many people will not ship internationally and are happy to
let their auctions end at a lot lower prices due to this fact. Do not punish
the majority of genuine bidders because of the few scumbags that prey on
our honesty. Sellers like yourselves should stand your ground on "your
terms" that you "stated" on the auction. I think by refunding money because
someone who accepted that risk says they have not received a coin encourages
bad behaviour. That is not to say I do not try everything in my power to
locate lost items and always respond to e-mails in a polite and courteous
manner, but I am not willing to be forced into providing additional services
which I "clearly stated" were not included in the option they chose. I feel
I am very customer orientated and will always do what I can for the buyer
including offering international post, but you have got to draw a line and
prevent people taking advantage!!

I always think this goes hand in hand with people who are not willing to
file non paying bidder disputes and leave negative feedback for non paying
bidders. I have got a feedback of over 600 with 100% positive and would be
the first to admit I will be gutted when I lose the 100%. However after
several polite reminders and satisfactory completion of an "ebay dispute", I
will always continue to leave polite negatives like "non paying bidder" if
payment is not received. As much as buyers have a duty to make other buyers
aware of fraudulent sellers, I feel it is my responsibility as a seller to
make other sellers aware of poor buyers.

Rant over

Thanks
Colin G.

On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 21:10:51 GMT, "Andrew"
wrote:
....
One of the best descriptions on items is International buyers contact me for
shipping rates then the seller can explain exactly what has to be done, then
I make a decision on what I want to do according to information provided by
the seller.
Most times I want the item and buy it.
Best Regards
Andrew Australia.

My description has a the statement for people outside the US to
contact me, but most people don't pay any attention. Five of my
auctions for gold Australian coins closed this afternoon. Three of the
coins were bought by three separate people that live outside the US.
None of them contacted me before bidding.

I sent invoices with options: airmail at their risk or guaranteed
global express. I'll bet they take the airmail letter.

Anita

I guess that educating the sellers is relatively easy but the buyers is not
so easy.
Andrew

"Anita" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 21:10:51 GMT, "Andrew"
wrote:
...
One of the best descriptions on items is International buyers contact me
for
shipping rates then the seller can explain exactly what has to be done,
then
I make a decision on what I want to do according to information provided
by
the seller.
Most times I want the item and buy it.
Best Regards
Andrew Australia.

My description has a the statement for people outside the US to
contact me, but most people don't pay any attention. Five of my
auctions for gold Australian coins closed this afternoon. Three of the
coins were bought by three separate people that live outside the US.
None of them contacted me before bidding.

I sent invoices with options: airmail at their risk or guaranteed
global express. I'll bet they take the airmail letter.

Anita

Anita wrote:
On 29 Apr 2005 12:50:00 -0700, "trojan66"
wrote:
...
I have never had a problem shipping inside or outside the US, but I
feel that *I* am taking a risk. Even if the buyer chooses not to
insure
the purchase, I believe that I am still liable...

Having just gone through this, Roger, I can say that what you wrote
is
exactly how I felt. Neither the buyer or seller were "guilty," but I
felt that it was my place to get the coin to his door. I didn't know
I
would feel this way about it until this morning.

There are guaranteed services to most countries, but these express or
registered services are very expensive. Not choosing one of the
guaranteed services does put the seller at risk. However, choosing
one
for shipping would make international buyers shy away from an
auction,
anyway. Or worse -- the bidder would bid without looking at shipping
costs, then renege or leave negative feedback.

This is the first problem I've had with international shipments, but
I've not had that many shipments. If one out of every ten or so
shipments gets lost, it would be expensive over time. This is my
experience right now, so I'm pulling in until I can figure out a
better way of shipping overseas.

What we need is an international post office :-)

Anita

I understand your position Anita...If/when this happens to me, I'll
probably change my policy as well. For the time being, I working under
the assumption that all my buyers are honest and the Post Office never
looses anything