Wreck of renowned British warship found in Channel -- HMS Vvictory

Hello

It was probably transporting 100,000 gold
Portuguese coins.

----------------------------------------------

FROM:
http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/art...shipwreck.html

Wreck of renowned British warship found in Channel

Feb. 1, 2009 08:32 AM
Associated Press

TAMPA, Fla. - Florida deep-sea explorers who found $500
million in sunken treasure two years ago say they have
discovered another prized shipwreck: A legendary
British man-of-war that sank in the English Channel 264
years ago.

(STORY PHOTO IMAGE)
http://www.azcentral.com/i/sized/7/9...5D48E4B397.jpg

In this photo released Sunday, Feb. 1, 2009 by Odyssey
Marine Exploration, Inc., the Odyssey Explorer's ROV
takes a photo of a Bronze cannon on the shipwreck site
of HMS Victory bearing the royal crest of
King George I, in the English Channel.

Odyssey Marine Exploration hasn't found any gold this
time, but it's looking for an even bigger jackpot. The
company's research indicates the HMS Victory was
carrying 4 tons of gold coins that could be worth
considerably more than the treasure that Odyssey raised
from a sunken Spanish galleon in 2007, co-founder Greg
Stemm said ahead of a news conference set for Monday
in London.

So far, Odyssey has recovered two brass cannons from
the wreck of the Victory and continues to examine and
map the debris field, which lies about 330 feet
beneath the surface, Stemm said. The company said it
is negotiating with the British government over
collaborating on the project.

"This is a big one, just because of the history,"
Stemm said. "Very rarely do you solve an age-old
mystery like this."

Odyssey said the 31 brass cannons and other evidence
on the wreck allowed definitive identification of the
HMS Victory, 175-foot sailing ship that was separated
from its fleet during a storm and sank in the English
Channel on Oct. 4, 1744, with at least 900 men
aboard. The ship was the largest and, with 110 brass
cannons, the most heavily armed vessel of its day. It
was the inspiration for the HMS Victory famously
commanded by Adm. Horatio Nelson decades later.

Odyssey was searching for other valuable shipwrecks
in the English Channel when it came across the
Victory. Stemm wouldn't say exactly where the ship
was found for fear of attracting plunderers, though
he said it wasn't close to where it was expected
to be.

"We found this more than 50 miles from where
anybody would have thought it went down," Stemm
said. Federal court records filed by Odyssey in
Tampa seeking the exclusive salvage rights said
the site is 25 to 40 miles from the English coast,
outside of its territorial waters.

A Ministry of Defense spokesman said Sunday the
government was aware of Odyssey's claim to have
found the Victory.

"Assuming the wreck is indeed that of a British
warship, her remains are sovereign immune," he
said on condition of anonymity in keeping with
government policy. "This means that no intrusive
action may be taken without the express consent
of the United Kingdom."

He would not say whether the government had begun
talks with Odyssey over the future of the find.

Newspapers of the day and other historical records
analyzed by the company indicated that the Victory
sank off the Channel Island of Alderney near
Cherbourg, France. A 1991 British postage stamp
depicts the Victory crashing on the rocks there.
Pieces of the ship had washed up in various places,
but its final resting place had remained a mystery.

The belief that the Victory had crashed onto the
rocks had marred an otherwise exemplary service
record of the ship's commander, Sir John Balchin,
and a lighthouse keeper on Alderney was prosecuted
for failing to keep the light on. Odyssey believes
the discovery exonerates both men.

"As far as the family is concerned, it is an
astonishing revelation," said Robert Balchin, a
66-year-old British university administrator and
direct descendant of the commander. "It's as if
he's sort of come alive again.

"When I went to see this extraordinary find of the
cannon with the coat of arms of the king on the
side, it was really a wonderful feeling to know
that Sir John Balchin saw that every day, and it
brought a very special communion with the past."

The HMS Victory was returning from Lisbon,
Portugal, and was probably transporting 100,000
gold Portuguese coins for merchants, according to
Odyssey's research. The ship had sailed there to
help rescue a Mediterranean convoy blockaded by
the French in the River Tagus at Lisbon.

The wreck site is roughly 70 feet by 200 feet
and littered with other debris, Odyssey said. Its
research ship, Odyssey Explorer, is equipped with
a remote underwater robot capable of carefully
removing the smallest of items from the bottom
and shooting high-resolution photos and video.

Odyssey, a publicly traded corporation, announced
in May 2007 that it had raised 17 tons of silver
coins from an Atlantic Ocean shipwreck. The
company later said it believed the wreck to be the
Spanish galleon
Nuestra Senora de las Mercedes y las Animas, which
sank off Portugal in 1804.

Shortly afterward, the Spanish government sued
Odyssey in federal court in Tampa to claim the
treasure, arguing that the shipwreck was never
abandoned by Spain. The case is pending.

Some in the Spanish government have called the
company 21st-century pirates, and twice in the
months after the 2007 announcement, ships from
Spain's Civil Guard seized Odyssey ships off the
Spanish coast. Both ships and their crews were
released within a week.

The company's relationship with the British
government has been more cordial. Odyssey had
already negotiated an agreement with British
officials regarding the search for the HMS Sussex,
which sank in the western Mediterranean in 1694
with gold coins aboard.

...

Hello

This story is being flooded on several news
links. Below is the BBC story link and artist's
impression of how HMS Victory may have looked.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7863840.stm

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/image...ictory_300.jpg

--------------------------------------------

"Arizona Coin Collector" wrote in
message m...

Hello

It was probably transporting 100,000 gold
Portuguese coins.

----------------------------------------------

FROM:
http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/art...shipwreck.html

Wreck of renowned British warship found in Channel

Feb. 1, 2009 08:32 AM
Associated Press

TAMPA, Fla. - Florida deep-sea explorers who found $500
million in sunken treasure two years ago say they have
discovered another prized shipwreck: A legendary
British man-of-war that sank in the English Channel 264
years ago.

(STORY PHOTO IMAGE)
http://www.azcentral.com/i/sized/7/9...5D48E4B397.jpg

In this photo released Sunday, Feb. 1, 2009 by Odyssey
Marine Exploration, Inc., the Odyssey Explorer's ROV
takes a photo of a Bronze cannon on the shipwreck site
of HMS Victory bearing the royal crest of
King George I, in the English Channel.

Odyssey Marine Exploration hasn't found any gold this
time, but it's looking for an even bigger jackpot. The
company's research indicates the HMS Victory was
carrying 4 tons of gold coins that could be worth
considerably more than the treasure that Odyssey raised
from a sunken Spanish galleon in 2007, co-founder Greg
Stemm said ahead of a news conference set for Monday
in London.

So far, Odyssey has recovered two brass cannons from
the wreck of the Victory and continues to examine and
map the debris field, which lies about 330 feet
beneath the surface, Stemm said. The company said it
is negotiating with the British government over
collaborating on the project.

"This is a big one, just because of the history,"
Stemm said. "Very rarely do you solve an age-old
mystery like this."

Odyssey said the 31 brass cannons and other evidence
on the wreck allowed definitive identification of the
HMS Victory, 175-foot sailing ship that was separated
from its fleet during a storm and sank in the English
Channel on Oct. 4, 1744, with at least 900 men
aboard. The ship was the largest and, with 110 brass
cannons, the most heavily armed vessel of its day. It
was the inspiration for the HMS Victory famously
commanded by Adm. Horatio Nelson decades later.

Odyssey was searching for other valuable shipwrecks
in the English Channel when it came across the
Victory. Stemm wouldn't say exactly where the ship
was found for fear of attracting plunderers, though
he said it wasn't close to where it was expected
to be.

"We found this more than 50 miles from where
anybody would have thought it went down," Stemm
said. Federal court records filed by Odyssey in
Tampa seeking the exclusive salvage rights said
the site is 25 to 40 miles from the English coast,
outside of its territorial waters.

A Ministry of Defense spokesman said Sunday the
government was aware of Odyssey's claim to have
found the Victory.

"Assuming the wreck is indeed that of a British
warship, her remains are sovereign immune," he
said on condition of anonymity in keeping with
government policy. "This means that no intrusive
action may be taken without the express consent
of the United Kingdom."

He would not say whether the government had begun
talks with Odyssey over the future of the find.

Newspapers of the day and other historical records
analyzed by the company indicated that the Victory
sank off the Channel Island of Alderney near
Cherbourg, France. A 1991 British postage stamp
depicts the Victory crashing on the rocks there.
Pieces of the ship had washed up in various places,
but its final resting place had remained a mystery.

The belief that the Victory had crashed onto the
rocks had marred an otherwise exemplary service
record of the ship's commander, Sir John Balchin,
and a lighthouse keeper on Alderney was prosecuted
for failing to keep the light on. Odyssey believes
the discovery exonerates both men.

"As far as the family is concerned, it is an
astonishing revelation," said Robert Balchin, a
66-year-old British university administrator and
direct descendant of the commander. "It's as if
he's sort of come alive again.

"When I went to see this extraordinary find of the
cannon with the coat of arms of the king on the
side, it was really a wonderful feeling to know
that Sir John Balchin saw that every day, and it
brought a very special communion with the past."

The HMS Victory was returning from Lisbon,
Portugal, and was probably transporting 100,000
gold Portuguese coins for merchants, according to
Odyssey's research. The ship had sailed there to
help rescue a Mediterranean convoy blockaded by
the French in the River Tagus at Lisbon.

The wreck site is roughly 70 feet by 200 feet
and littered with other debris, Odyssey said. Its
research ship, Odyssey Explorer, is equipped with
a remote underwater robot capable of carefully
removing the smallest of items from the bottom
and shooting high-resolution photos and video.

Odyssey, a publicly traded corporation, announced
in May 2007 that it had raised 17 tons of silver
coins from an Atlantic Ocean shipwreck. The
company later said it believed the wreck to be the
Spanish galleon
Nuestra Senora de las Mercedes y las Animas, which
sank off Portugal in 1804.

Shortly afterward, the Spanish government sued
Odyssey in federal court in Tampa to claim the
treasure, arguing that the shipwreck was never
abandoned by Spain. The case is pending.

Some in the Spanish government have called the
company 21st-century pirates, and twice in the
months after the 2007 announcement, ships from
Spain's Civil Guard seized Odyssey ships off the
Spanish coast. Both ships and their crews were
released within a week.

The company's relationship with the British
government has been more cordial. Odyssey had
already negotiated an agreement with British
officials regarding the search for the HMS Sussex,
which sank in the western Mediterranean in 1694
with gold coins aboard.

..

I thought it already was in Portsmouth.

"Arizona Coin Collector" wrote in message
m...
Hello

It was probably transporting 100,000 gold
Portuguese coins.

----------------------------------------------

FROM:

http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/art...shipwreck.html

Wreck of renowned British warship found in Channel

Feb. 1, 2009 08:32 AM
Associated Press

TAMPA, Fla. - Florida deep-sea explorers who found $500
million in sunken treasure two years ago say they have
discovered another prized shipwreck: A legendary
British man-of-war that sank in the English Channel 264
years ago.

(STORY PHOTO IMAGE)
http://www.azcentral.com/i/sized/7/9...5D48E4B397.jpg

In this photo released Sunday, Feb. 1, 2009 by Odyssey
Marine Exploration, Inc., the Odyssey Explorer's ROV
takes a photo of a Bronze cannon on the shipwreck site
of HMS Victory bearing the royal crest of
King George I, in the English Channel.

Odyssey Marine Exploration hasn't found any gold this
time, but it's looking for an even bigger jackpot. The
company's research indicates the HMS Victory was
carrying 4 tons of gold coins that could be worth
considerably more than the treasure that Odyssey raised
from a sunken Spanish galleon in 2007, co-founder Greg
Stemm said ahead of a news conference set for Monday
in London.

So far, Odyssey has recovered two brass cannons from
the wreck of the Victory and continues to examine and
map the debris field, which lies about 330 feet
beneath the surface, Stemm said. The company said it
is negotiating with the British government over
collaborating on the project.

"This is a big one, just because of the history,"
Stemm said. "Very rarely do you solve an age-old
mystery like this."

Odyssey said the 31 brass cannons and other evidence
on the wreck allowed definitive identification of the
HMS Victory, 175-foot sailing ship that was separated
from its fleet during a storm and sank in the English
Channel on Oct. 4, 1744, with at least 900 men
aboard. The ship was the largest and, with 110 brass
cannons, the most heavily armed vessel of its day. It
was the inspiration for the HMS Victory famously
commanded by Adm. Horatio Nelson decades later.

Odyssey was searching for other valuable shipwrecks
in the English Channel when it came across the
Victory. Stemm wouldn't say exactly where the ship
was found for fear of attracting plunderers, though
he said it wasn't close to where it was expected
to be.

"We found this more than 50 miles from where
anybody would have thought it went down," Stemm
said. Federal court records filed by Odyssey in
Tampa seeking the exclusive salvage rights said
the site is 25 to 40 miles from the English coast,
outside of its territorial waters.

A Ministry of Defense spokesman said Sunday the
government was aware of Odyssey's claim to have
found the Victory.

"Assuming the wreck is indeed that of a British
warship, her remains are sovereign immune," he
said on condition of anonymity in keeping with
government policy. "This means that no intrusive
action may be taken without the express consent
of the United Kingdom."

He would not say whether the government had begun
talks with Odyssey over the future of the find.

Newspapers of the day and other historical records
analyzed by the company indicated that the Victory
sank off the Channel Island of Alderney near
Cherbourg, France. A 1991 British postage stamp
depicts the Victory crashing on the rocks there.
Pieces of the ship had washed up in various places,
but its final resting place had remained a mystery.

The belief that the Victory had crashed onto the
rocks had marred an otherwise exemplary service
record of the ship's commander, Sir John Balchin,
and a lighthouse keeper on Alderney was prosecuted
for failing to keep the light on. Odyssey believes
the discovery exonerates both men.

"As far as the family is concerned, it is an
astonishing revelation," said Robert Balchin, a
66-year-old British university administrator and
direct descendant of the commander. "It's as if
he's sort of come alive again.

"When I went to see this extraordinary find of the
cannon with the coat of arms of the king on the
side, it was really a wonderful feeling to know
that Sir John Balchin saw that every day, and it
brought a very special communion with the past."

The HMS Victory was returning from Lisbon,
Portugal, and was probably transporting 100,000
gold Portuguese coins for merchants, according to
Odyssey's research. The ship had sailed there to
help rescue a Mediterranean convoy blockaded by
the French in the River Tagus at Lisbon.

The wreck site is roughly 70 feet by 200 feet
and littered with other debris, Odyssey said. Its
research ship, Odyssey Explorer, is equipped with
a remote underwater robot capable of carefully
removing the smallest of items from the bottom
and shooting high-resolution photos and video.

Odyssey, a publicly traded corporation, announced
in May 2007 that it had raised 17 tons of silver
coins from an Atlantic Ocean shipwreck. The
company later said it believed the wreck to be the
Spanish galleon
Nuestra Senora de las Mercedes y las Animas, which
sank off Portugal in 1804.

Shortly afterward, the Spanish government sued
Odyssey in federal court in Tampa to claim the
treasure, arguing that the shipwreck was never
abandoned by Spain. The case is pending.

Some in the Spanish government have called the
company 21st-century pirates, and twice in the
months after the 2007 announcement, ships from
Spain's Civil Guard seized Odyssey ships off the
Spanish coast. Both ships and their crews were
released within a week.

The company's relationship with the British
government has been more cordial. Odyssey had
already negotiated an agreement with British
officials regarding the search for the HMS Sussex,
which sank in the western Mediterranean in 1694
with gold coins aboard.

..

"Longnine009" wrote in message
...

I thought it already was in Portsmouth.


Hello

(STORY IMAGE PHOTO LINK)
A bronze cannon recovered from the wreck of the
HMS Victory was hoisted onto the deck of the
Odyssey Explorer.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/...ship.600.1.jpg

Below is the New York Times story link on the
British Warship "HMS VICTORY".
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/03/sc...pwreck.html?hp

"Arizona Coin Collector" wrote in message
...
Hello

This story is being flooded on several news
links. Below is the BBC story link and artist's
impression of how HMS Victory may have looked.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7863840.stm

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/image...ictory_300.jpg

--------------------------------------------

"Arizona Coin Collector" wrote in
message m...

Hello

It was probably transporting 100,000 gold
Portuguese coins.

************************************************** ************************
FWIW from the Odyssey Marine Exploration Inc. (OMEX) yahoo message board:

The ship sank in 1744

In 1722 John V introduced a new coinage based on the gold escudo, The
Portuguese Escudo.

Double Joe = 8 escudo = 18dwt (pennyweight)

20 dwt = 1 troy oz
1 Double Joe = .9 troy oz.
100,000 x .9 troy oz = 90,000 troy oz
90,000 / 12 troy oz = 7,500/2000 = 3.75 tons

So, if the coins were Moidores then 4 tons is incorrect.
If the coins were Double Joes' then 4 tons it is.

In either case the numismatic value will be more than the metal value

jack
************************************************** **************************

In a recent message "Longnine009" wrote:

I thought it already was in Portsmouth.

Read the following bit:

Odyssey said the 31 brass cannons and other evidence
on the wreck allowed definitive identification of the
HMS Victory, 175-foot sailing ship that was separated
from its fleet during a storm and sank in the English
Channel on Oct. 4, 1744, with at least 900 men
aboard. The ship was the largest and, with 110 brass
cannons, the most heavily armed vessel of its day. It
was the inspiration for the HMS Victory famously
commanded by Adm. Horatio Nelson decades later.

I think it is the third HMS Victory. The one at Portsmouth is the fourth.
The Royal Navy have a strong tradition of re-using names for their warships.
However, as the fourth is still 'in commission' at Portsmouth, that
name will not be reused for the foreseeable future.

--
Tony Clayton
Coins of the UK : http://www.coins-of-the-uk.co.uk
Sent using RISCOS on an Acorn Strong Arm RiscPC
.... 4 food groups: fast, frozen, microwaved, and junk

"Tony Clayton" wrote in message
...
In a recent message "Longnine009" wrote:

I thought it already was in Portsmouth.

Read the following bit:

Odyssey said the 31 brass cannons and other evidence
on the wreck allowed definitive identification of the
HMS Victory, 175-foot sailing ship that was separated
from its fleet during a storm and sank in the English
Channel on Oct. 4, 1744, with at least 900 men
aboard. The ship was the largest and, with 110 brass
cannons, the most heavily armed vessel of its day. It
was the inspiration for the HMS Victory famously
commanded by Adm. Horatio Nelson decades later.

I think it is the third HMS Victory. The one at Portsmouth is the fourth.
The Royal Navy have a strong tradition of re-using names for their
warships.
However, as the fourth is still 'in commission' at Portsmouth, that
name will not be reused for the foreseeable future.

Thanks. I took a tour on the one in Portsmouth. Supposedly it's the
one where Adm. Nelson was killed by a sniper. They had the spot
mark with a brass plaque.

--
Tony Clayton
Coins of the UK : http://www.coins-of-the-uk.co.uk
Sent using RISCOS on an Acorn Strong Arm RiscPC
... 4 food groups: fast, frozen, microwaved, and junk