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#1
July 10th 03, 07:26 PM
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Bookplate or "flatsigned"?
I saw this statement in an eBay listing. Does anyone (besides me)think
this is incorrect? SIGNED by President Nixon on the beautifully colored Library and Birthplace Bookplate. A Bookplate is the best guarantee that the signature is authentic. Art Layton Stamford CT 
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#2
July 10th 03, 08:43 PM
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"Art Layton" wrote...
I saw this statement in an eBay listing. Does anyone (besides me)think this is incorrect? SIGNED by President Nixon on the beautifully colored Library and Birthplace Bookplate. A Bookplate is the best guarantee that the signature is authentic. Signed on a bookplate just makes it more likely that the signature is an AutoPen. One would think that the *best* guarantee would be having the item signed in one's presence. -- Jon Meyers [To reply, lose your way.]
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#3
July 10th 03, 08:47 PM
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#4
July 11th 03, 01:38 PM
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On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:03:41 -0400, "William M. Klimon"
wrote: "Jon Meyers" wrote in message ... Signed on a bookplate just makes it more likely that the signature is an AutoPen. One would think that the *best* guarantee would be having the item signed in one's presence. I believe it was this past season on the ANTIQUES ROADSHOW, they had a collector with a large and impressive autograph collection, and with almost every autography in her albums she had a photograph of herself taken with the signer. Now there's some verification. William M. Klimon http://www.gateofbliss.com For unique items... One of the more notorious forgers in sports memoribilia used this trick. 1. Pay athlete to sign X amount of items. 2. Have photograph taken with athlete signing items. 3. When athlete leaves copy signature on a whole bunch more items. I suspect that at least one bookseller (well known to all here) engages in this particular practice. Cheers, John
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#5
July 11th 03, 11:28 PM
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John Pelan wrote in message . ..
On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:03:41 -0400, "William M. Klimon" wrote: "Jon Meyers" wrote in message ... Signed on a bookplate just makes it more likely that the signature is an AutoPen. One would think that the *best* guarantee would be having the item signed in one's presence. I believe it was this past season on the ANTIQUES ROADSHOW, they had a collector with a large and impressive autograph collection, and with almost every autography in her albums she had a photograph of herself taken with the signer. Now there's some verification. William M. Klimon http://www.gateofbliss.com For unique items... One of the more notorious forgers in sports memoribilia used this trick. 1. Pay athlete to sign X amount of items. 2. Have photograph taken with athlete signing items. 3. When athlete leaves copy signature on a whole bunch more items. I suspect that at least one bookseller (well known to all here) engages in this particular practice. Cheers, John I have always thought that a signed limited edition was a pretty good bet. Seems like to forge the signature one would also have to forge the book too. At least that was the argument I made to a sports collectible dealer when I could get a pretty good deal on a Babe Ruth book some years ago which was a signed, limited edition. The dealer wouldn't buy it because there were so many forgeries even back then, probably over fifteen years ago. And since I collect modern firsts, Frost, Fitzgerald and Lawrence as well as the Modern Movement, I can personally attest that there are many more forgeries of Hemingway books on eBay that authentic. Isn't it interesting how there seems to be a sudden proliferation of signed Hemingway books these days? Rick Kalamaya
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#7
July 13th 03, 01:41 AM
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John Pelan wrote in message . ..
On 11 Jul 2003 15:28:35 -0700, (Rick Kalamaya) wrote: John Pelan wrote in message . .. On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:03:41 -0400, "William M. Klimon" wrote: "Jon Meyers" wrote in message ... Signed on a bookplate just makes it more likely that the signature is an AutoPen. One would think that the *best* guarantee would be having the item signed in one's presence. I believe it was this past season on the ANTIQUES ROADSHOW, they had a collector with a large and impressive autograph collection, and with almost every autography in her albums she had a photograph of herself taken with the signer. Now there's some verification. William M. Klimon http://www.gateofbliss.com For unique items... One of the more notorious forgers in sports memoribilia used this trick. 1. Pay athlete to sign X amount of items. 2. Have photograph taken with athlete signing items. 3. When athlete leaves copy signature on a whole bunch more items. I suspect that at least one bookseller (well known to all here) engages in this particular practice. Cheers, John I have always thought that a signed limited edition was a pretty good bet. Seems like to forge the signature one would also have to forge the book too. Exactly right... Though I'm very proud of my huge collection of signed books (even, nay, especially the paperbacks). When I was starting out all I could afford were paperbacks, but I targeted the first edition whenever possible and in many cases in the genre I collect, the paperback was the only edition. I think I have something like 3,000... At least that was the argument I made to a sports collectible dealer when I could get a pretty good deal on a Babe Ruth book some years ago which was a signed, limited edition. Ruth signatures are far more common than is often believed (or admited to) by dealers. He was a tremendously gregarious man and cheerfully signed anything put in front of him. The more reserved and private Gehrig is a much more difficult signature. (Reminds me, now I have to chase down Raffy for 500-HR Club) and I still can't afford Ruth and can't seem to find a decent Ott... *sighs* The dealer wouldn't buy it because there were so many forgeries even back then, probably over fifteen years ago. And since I collect modern firsts, Frost, Fitzgerald and Lawrence as well as the Modern Movement, I can personally attest that there are many more forgeries of Hemingway books on eBay that authentic. Isn't it interesting how there seems to be a sudden proliferation of signed Hemingway books these days? Simple, easy targets... Ruth - baseball, Hemingway - modern firsts, Philip K. Dick - SF. There's a few boooks I own that I would have trouble tracing the provenance of, but who the hell is going to forge H.A. Manhood, Mrs. Belloc-Lowndes, or Neil Bell? ;-) Cheers, John Why, yes. Besides who would want the signature of such an odious person as Hemingway whose literary reputation is fading slightly anyway. All the ballplayers I have, Mantle, Musial, Gibson, Brock, and etc. were all gathered in person so I know they are authentic. And my Ted Williams signatures (2) are in a book and certainly look authentic, being purchased at a bookstore in Boulder with a decent reputation. What you say about Ruth is true but his signature is still pricey especially on a ball. Stan the Man (my hero) also signs nearly every time he is asked. But while we are talking baseball signatures, how would you like to have an authentic Shoeless Joe? Rick Kalamaya
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#8
July 13th 03, 02:09 AM
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On 12 Jul 2003 17:41:05 -0700, (Rick Kalamaya) wrote:
John Pelan wrote in message . .. On 11 Jul 2003 15:28:35 -0700, (Rick Kalamaya) wrote: John Pelan wrote in message . .. On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:03:41 -0400, "William M. Klimon" wrote: "Jon Meyers" wrote in message ... Signed on a bookplate just makes it more likely that the signature is an AutoPen. One would think that the *best* guarantee would be having the item signed in one's presence. I believe it was this past season on the ANTIQUES ROADSHOW, they had a collector with a large and impressive autograph collection, and with almost every autography in her albums she had a photograph of herself taken with the signer. Now there's some verification. William M. Klimon http://www.gateofbliss.com For unique items... One of the more notorious forgers in sports memoribilia used this trick. 1. Pay athlete to sign X amount of items. 2. Have photograph taken with athlete signing items. 3. When athlete leaves copy signature on a whole bunch more items. I suspect that at least one bookseller (well known to all here) engages in this particular practice. Cheers, John I have always thought that a signed limited edition was a pretty good bet. Seems like to forge the signature one would also have to forge the book too. Exactly right... Though I'm very proud of my huge collection of signed books (even, nay, especially the paperbacks). When I was starting out all I could afford were paperbacks, but I targeted the first edition whenever possible and in many cases in the genre I collect, the paperback was the only edition. I think I have something like 3,000... At least that was the argument I made to a sports collectible dealer when I could get a pretty good deal on a Babe Ruth book some years ago which was a signed, limited edition. Ruth signatures are far more common than is often believed (or admited to) by dealers. He was a tremendously gregarious man and cheerfully signed anything put in front of him. The more reserved and private Gehrig is a much more difficult signature. (Reminds me, now I have to chase down Raffy for 500-HR Club) and I still can't afford Ruth and can't seem to find a decent Ott... *sighs* The dealer wouldn't buy it because there were so many forgeries even back then, probably over fifteen years ago. And since I collect modern firsts, Frost, Fitzgerald and Lawrence as well as the Modern Movement, I can personally attest that there are many more forgeries of Hemingway books on eBay that authentic. Isn't it interesting how there seems to be a sudden proliferation of signed Hemingway books these days? Simple, easy targets... Ruth - baseball, Hemingway - modern firsts, Philip K. Dick - SF. There's a few boooks I own that I would have trouble tracing the provenance of, but who the hell is going to forge H.A. Manhood, Mrs. Belloc-Lowndes, or Neil Bell? ;-) Cheers, John Why, yes. Besides who would want the signature of such an odious person as Hemingway whose literary reputation is fading slightly anyway. All the ballplayers I have, Mantle, Musial, Gibson, Brock, and etc. were all gathered in person so I know they are authentic. And my Ted Williams signatures (2) are in a book and certainly look authentic, being purchased at a bookstore in Boulder with a decent reputation. What you say about Ruth is true but his signature is still pricey especially on a ball. Yep. I'd rather have it on a card like or 8 x 10 like all my other ones... Stan the Man (my hero) also signs nearly every time he is asked. But while we are talking baseball signatures, how would you like to have an authentic Shoeless Joe? Rick Kalamaya Joe Jackson is possible, but not very likely. He was illiterate and actually signed documents with an "X" until very late in life. Almost all Jackson "autographs" were signed by his wife. I'm off the hook on Jackson, my baseball autographs were originally based on the 300-HR club, but now that any halfway competent power-hitter can reach that plateau, I've sort of lost interest in continuing. Having to chase Gary Gaetti's autograph was sort of the straw that broke the camel's back.;-) That said, I do have one pitcher... Bob Gibson; I liked the way he played the game. Do I detect a Cardinal bias in your collecting? You've got Albert, I trust? The next triple-crown hitter: Albert Pujols... count on it. Cheers, John
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#9
July 13th 03, 11:20 PM
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John Pelan wrote in message . ..
On 12 Jul 2003 17:41:05 -0700, (Rick Kalamaya) wrote: John Pelan wrote in message . .. On 11 Jul 2003 15:28:35 -0700, (Rick Kalamaya) wrote: John Pelan wrote in message . .. On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:03:41 -0400, "William M. Klimon" wrote: "Jon Meyers" wrote in message ... Signed on a bookplate just makes it more likely that the signature is an AutoPen. One would think that the *best* guarantee would be having the item signed in one's presence. I believe it was this past season on the ANTIQUES ROADSHOW, they had a collector with a large and impressive autograph collection, and with almost every autography in her albums she had a photograph of herself taken with the signer. Now there's some verification. William M. Klimon http://www.gateofbliss.com For unique items... One of the more notorious forgers in sports memoribilia used this trick. 1. Pay athlete to sign X amount of items. 2. Have photograph taken with athlete signing items. 3. When athlete leaves copy signature on a whole bunch more items. I suspect that at least one bookseller (well known to all here) engages in this particular practice. Cheers, John I have always thought that a signed limited edition was a pretty good bet. Seems like to forge the signature one would also have to forge the book too. Exactly right... Though I'm very proud of my huge collection of signed books (even, nay, especially the paperbacks). When I was starting out all I could afford were paperbacks, but I targeted the first edition whenever possible and in many cases in the genre I collect, the paperback was the only edition. I think I have something like 3,000... At least that was the argument I made to a sports collectible dealer when I could get a pretty good deal on a Babe Ruth book some years ago which was a signed, limited edition. Ruth signatures are far more common than is often believed (or admited to) by dealers. He was a tremendously gregarious man and cheerfully signed anything put in front of him. The more reserved and private Gehrig is a much more difficult signature. (Reminds me, now I have to chase down Raffy for 500-HR Club) and I still can't afford Ruth and can't seem to find a decent Ott... *sighs* The dealer wouldn't buy it because there were so many forgeries even back then, probably over fifteen years ago. And since I collect modern firsts, Frost, Fitzgerald and Lawrence as well as the Modern Movement, I can personally attest that there are many more forgeries of Hemingway books on eBay that authentic. Isn't it interesting how there seems to be a sudden proliferation of signed Hemingway books these days? Simple, easy targets... Ruth - baseball, Hemingway - modern firsts, Philip K. Dick - SF. There's a few boooks I own that I would have trouble tracing the provenance of, but who the hell is going to forge H.A. Manhood, Mrs. Belloc-Lowndes, or Neil Bell? ;-) Cheers, John Why, yes. Besides who would want the signature of such an odious person as Hemingway whose literary reputation is fading slightly anyway. All the ballplayers I have, Mantle, Musial, Gibson, Brock, and etc. were all gathered in person so I know they are authentic. And my Ted Williams signatures (2) are in a book and certainly look authentic, being purchased at a bookstore in Boulder with a decent reputation. What you say about Ruth is true but his signature is still pricey especially on a ball. Yep. I'd rather have it on a card like or 8 x 10 like all my other ones... Stan the Man (my hero) also signs nearly every time he is asked. But while we are talking baseball signatures, how would you like to have an authentic Shoeless Joe? Rick Kalamaya Joe Jackson is possible, but not very likely. He was illiterate and actually signed documents with an "X" until very late in life. Almost all Jackson "autographs" were signed by his wife. I'm off the hook on Jackson, my baseball autographs were originally based on the 300-HR club, but now that any halfway competent power-hitter can reach that plateau, I've sort of lost interest in continuing. Having to chase Gary Gaetti's autograph was sort of the straw that broke the camel's back.;-) That said, I do have one pitcher... Bob Gibson; I liked the way he played the game. Do I detect a Cardinal bias in your collecting? You've got Albert, I trust? The next triple-crown hitter: Albert Pujols... count on it. Cheers, John Yes, I have followed the Cardinals since I was very small. Sort of like the characters in John Grisham's "Painted House." Grisham now lives in Charlottesville and his son, named after the baseball great Ty Cobb, plays for the UVA baseball team that my son played for a few years ago. And being from Mississippi Grisham is a big Cardinal fan. I wonder if Faulkner was a Cardinal fan? He was at UVA at the end of his life also. I have a baseball signed by all the living Cardinal HOFers now that Enos Slaughter has died: Musial, Brock, Gibson and Schoendinst. But although I have Albert on my fantasy baseball team I don't yet have his signature. I guess I will have to work on that. Wish I had more of him because other than his bat my team's offense stinks. And I have some other nice baseball books in my book collection although I don't specialize in them. I have a first of Shoeless Joe (great book) because Kinsella was coming to Denver about the time we first got our major league team. I got him to sign it in person. And talking to him was very fascinating also. Great game and lends itself more than any other to the literary pursuits. Yours in Jack Buck, Rick
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#10
July 14th 03, 12:20 AM
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"Rick Kalamaya" wrote...
John Pelan wrote... Do I detect a Cardinal bias in your collecting? Yes, I have followed the Cardinals since I was very small. Sort of like the characters in John Grisham's "Painted House." Grisham now lives in Charlottesville and his son, named after the baseball great Ty Cobb, plays for the UVA baseball team that my son played for a few years ago. And being from Mississippi Grisham is a big Cardinal fan. I wonder if Faulkner was a Cardinal fan? He was at UVA at the end of his life also. I have a baseball signed by all the living Cardinal HOFers now that Enos Slaughter has died: Musial, Brock, Gibson and Schoendinst.... Please don't kill the messenger, but...the very-much-alive Ozzie Smith is now in the Hall. -- Jon Meyers [To reply, lose your way.]
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