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e-Bay sale: Wow what a problem customer



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 6th 06, 10:30 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
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Default e-Bay sale: Wow what a problem customer

Folks I am in a tough bind here. As often is the case both sides have some
foothold in this claim but I feel that this guy is being very unreasonable.
I have maintained professionalism thus far but now this guy is threatening
my PayPal account.

The background:
I was out of the country when an auction ended. I notified the buyer within
48 hours of the auction ending that I was out of the country and would
return on May 1. Upon returning I would mail his item ASAP. I received no
reply at that time.

I return to the country on May 1. On May 2, in the evening, I package this
guys item up. On May 3 I mailed the item right away in the morning. Upon
returning home that evening I find an e-mail from that was sent on around
10:30 PM May 2 saying he wants to back out of the sale if the items have not
shipped since he has a customer waiting on the items and has another venue
to purchase the same item. There is a follow up e-mail at 11:09 AM on May 3
with the same buyer stating that he need the items shipped ASAP as another
customer is waiting on them. Then I get an e-mail on May 3 with him wanting
to back out of the sale. In each e-mail he points to text in my auction
which states that "Checks must first clear with the bank before the item is
shipped. PayPal and money orders ship immediately". On the May 3 e-mail he
states that since the items were not sent as stated in the listing that he
wants to back out. As a somewhat unrelated side note his e-mails are filled
with spelling errors.

I e-mail the seller explaining that i shipped the previous day (a mistake in
verbiage, unfortuately as you will soon see).

On May 5 he receives the items and sends me this e-mail:
"hi patrick,

i find it very perculuier that you stated you shipped out day before you
replied to my email, yet postage was paid/stamped, and initiated on the 3rd
from your post office.
this is very disturbing, again as i had asked since you didn't expidite the
quarters to me as was stated in your listing, and i had to make other
arraingements for my customer, due to this.
i had made a promise to my customer, and needed to follow through, to make a
sale and keep a customer for future business.

i don't need these quarters now, and am not happy with how this worked out.
you made a promis commitment to ship out immeadiately on your auction
listing, and i bid accordingly to your promise/commitment.

we need to resolve this matter in a hopefully healthy manner, what do you
propose?????

i await a reply, and hopefully healthy solution, one we can both feel
comfortable with."

My reply to him:

"I stated at the time that the listing ended that I would not be able to
ship
until after May 1. You made no indication whatsoever at the time that you
needed the shipment to be expedited. Had I known there was an urgent need
to ship before that I could have contacted someone in the states to handle
the situation for me. There was never a request to expedite until May 2 -
one day after I informed you that I would return. By that time the order
had been packaged and it was sent before I read your e-mail.

All my auctions come with at least a 14 day return privilege, from the time
the goods were received, no questions asked as long as you have not opened
the boxes on them. Simply send the quarters back and I will issue a refund
check for the purchase amount less postage, e-Bay/PayPal fees, and
insurance."

Just before midnight on the 5th of May I get another e-mail from the guy:

"you made the statement concerning not shipping till beginning of may via
email after the auction had ended, and stated you were out of country. how
would i have known that other arraingments could be made with you being
away???? i am not the "amazing cresken".

the statement i am initially referring to, and what i went by in making my
decision to purchase was what you have listed in your auction page fore
these coins (located at the bottom of your listing) stating this
verbetim(actually copy/pasted your shipping instructions from listing:

Seller's payment instructions
PayPal, Money Orders, and Personal Checks are accepted. PayPal is mandatory
for international orders. PayPal and Money Orders ship immediately. Personal
Checks must clear before item is shipped. I do offer combined shipping for
multiple auctions won within 48 hours. Additional items are just $1 more. If
paying by check or money order you may combine auctions that finish within a
7 day period.

PAYPAL AND MONEY ORDERS SHIP IMMEADIATLEY.......... nothing states: OUT OF
COUNTRY, WILL SHIP UPON RETURN.......

I WILL NOT INCUR THE INITIAL 18.40 S&H AND INSURANCE PAID (WHEN IT COST YOU
ONLY 10.00 TOTAL) AND THE ADDITIONAL S&H/INSURANCE BACK TO YOU.

It took 10 days for you to act on this and i emailed you and got a reply a
day before you truly did ship out the coins, & i feel like you where trying
to salvage the sale, telling me they were already shipped out, when truly
they didn't ship till next day.

i ask once more to try to amicablly work this out, or i will contact ebay,
and leave appropriate feedback, and also file w/ paypal for transaction not
as stated and have your account frozen up till resolved.

this is something i would rather avoid, nor want to put the time/effort
into, but i am asking for a solution that is workable, or will be forced w/
no other choice, if it becomes nessesary."


Now at this point I am very angry. I was tempted to fire back an e-mail
saying that I do not appreciate threats. Perhaps for the future I should
change the text of my auction to say Paypal and money order ship as soon as
humanly possible. I mean if someone really wanted to get picky they could
claim if I did not ship within 5 minutes of a PayPal payment being recevived
since that does not constitute "immediately". The text was meant to
indicate only that checks have to clear first unlike Paypal and Money
Orders.

He asks how he was supposed to know I could make arrangements but on the
flip side how could I know he needed the shipment expedited if he did not
ask anything? Futhermore the $10 he cites is not shipping costs but merely
postage and signature confirmation. I offered this guy a return and he is
now treatening to shut down my PayPal account!

The reason I post this to the group is for a reality check. Am I being at
all unreasonable? He is clearly being unreasonable, yes?

Thanks for comments and criticisms alike.




--
CIA DEA DIA FBI KGB NSA WMD TLA


Ads
  #2  
Old May 6th 06, 11:37 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
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Default e-Bay sale: Wow what a problem customer


"Ira" wrote in message
oups.com...
The buyer is impossible, but he CAN hurt you.


Thanks very much for the advice. I just want to clarify this statement. I
know he can leave me my first negative feedback thus ruining my 100% rating
but can he really freeze my PayPal account? After all he admits to having
the items and I can prove through signature confirmation that he has them.
What do you mean by "he CAN hurt you."?


  #3  
Old May 6th 06, 12:49 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
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Default e-Bay sale: Wow what a problem customer

[Default] On Sat, 06 May 2006 10:37:46 GMT, "PC"
climbed to the top of the minaret and sang out:


"Ira" wrote in message
roups.com...
The buyer is impossible, but he CAN hurt you.


Thanks very much for the advice. I just want to clarify this statement. I
know he can leave me my first negative feedback thus ruining my 100% rating
but can he really freeze my PayPal account? After all he admits to having
the items and I can prove through signature confirmation that he has them.
What do you mean by "he CAN hurt you."?


Althgough he can file a complaint with paypal, you have the
opportunity to dispute the complaint, and give paypal thge tracking
numbers, so they can see that you really did send him the coins,. At
that point, paypal should resolve the complaint in your favor.

But whatever you do, don't give him a negative first, as he could then
leave a retaliatory negative, so only give him a negative if he gives
you one first.
  #4  
Old May 6th 06, 01:19 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
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Posts: n/a
Default e-Bay sale: Wow what a problem customer


"WheatPenny" wrote in message
...

Althgough he can file a complaint with paypal, you have the
opportunity to dispute the complaint, and give paypal thge tracking
numbers, so they can see that you really did send him the coins,.


Plus he has admitted in his e-mails to getting them.

At
that point, paypal should resolve the complaint in your favor.


That is what I am hoping for. I have lived up to the terms of the agreement
despite his attempts to nitpick my auction text. I mean, if I don't ship
within five minutes of receiving PayPal payment then technically I did not
ship immediately, did I? But no reasonable person would complain in that
scenario. All in all from the time he purchased to receiving goods was 12
days. That is not unreasonable. Furthermore I informed this guy right away
what the issue was and he had no complaint back then. Only now does he want
to complain.

But whatever you do, don't give him a negative first, as he could then
leave a retaliatory negative, so only give him a negative if he gives
you one first.


Sound advice. I peeked at his feebacks and he has left 23 while receiving
20 himself. Most of the negatives against him complain of receiving the
wrong item or - get this - slow shipping. I don't plan on giving him
negative feedback first but I am counting on getting negative feedback from
him even if I agree to refund all the shipping and handling fees. I fear
there is no way to win with this guy.


  #5  
Old May 6th 06, 01:23 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
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Default e-Bay sale: Wow what a problem customer

He can hurt you not only by leaving negative feedback with non-truths
posted, but can prtest the charge thru PyPal and/or execute a
chargeback. Once this is done, PayPal will pull money out of your
account untl they complete their investigation, which can take up to 40
days, althouh PayPl claims only 30. This happened to me.

A bidder won, on eBay, a $6100 coin on Nov 2 of last year and left me
pos. feedback. Then, nearly 4 months later, entered a chargeback for
the full amount and PayPal froze $6100, taking what was in my account
and then taking teh excess from my checking account while they
investigated. Although I had proof of delivery and finally BUYER sent
an e-mail to PayPal, whch PayPal acknowledged, tha tehchargeback was
improper and he wished to revoke it, IT MADE NO DIFFRERNCE. PayPal
announced, after 36 days, that they could NOT successfully dispute teh
chargeback and the $6100 was given to AMEX, the CC the customer used.
He had already sold the coin in question and didn't have enough to
reimburse me, having spent to proceeds. AMEX apparaently decided that I
was a better source for the funds than the deadbeat buyer, and that was
that!. To add insult to injury, PayPal deducted an additional $142 as
investigation fees!

Just becuase I was clearly in the right and buyer admitted it was no
solace as PayPal relinquished the money to AMEX and didn't even go to
bat for their "valued" customer, the merchant! They didn't even to
attempt to challenge the chargeback! Somwehre in PayPal's 37 pages of
paticulars (yes, 37 pages) they state that they must abide by the final
and non-appealble decision of the credit card company.

I repeat.

It it were me, I'd just get the coins back and refund the guy's money
and move on. Beng in the right is not always enough.

Ira

  #6  
Old May 6th 06, 01:29 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default e-Bay sale: Wow what a problem customer


"Ira" wrote in message
ups.com...
He can hurt you not only by leaving negative feedback with non-truths
posted, but can prtest the charge thru PyPal and/or execute a
chargeback. Once this is done, PayPal will pull money out of your
account untl they complete their investigation, which can take up to 40
days, althouh PayPl claims only 30. This happened to me.

A bidder won, on eBay, a $6100 coin on Nov 2 of last year and left me
pos. feedback. Then, nearly 4 months later, entered a chargeback for
the full amount and PayPal froze $6100, taking what was in my account
and then taking teh excess from my checking account while they
investigated. Although I had proof of delivery and finally BUYER sent
an e-mail to PayPal, whch PayPal acknowledged, tha tehchargeback was
improper and he wished to revoke it, IT MADE NO DIFFRERNCE. PayPal
announced, after 36 days, that they could NOT successfully dispute teh
chargeback and the $6100 was given to AMEX, the CC the customer used.
He had already sold the coin in question and didn't have enough to
reimburse me, having spent to proceeds. AMEX apparaently decided that I
was a better source for the funds than the deadbeat buyer, and that was
that!. To add insult to injury, PayPal deducted an additional $142 as
investigation fees!

Just becuase I was clearly in the right and buyer admitted it was no
solace as PayPal relinquished the money to AMEX and didn't even go to
bat for their "valued" customer, the merchant! They didn't even to
attempt to challenge the chargeback! Somwehre in PayPal's 37 pages of
paticulars (yes, 37 pages) they state that they must abide by the final
and non-appealble decision of the credit card company.

I repeat.

It it were me, I'd just get the coins back and refund the guy's money
and move on. Beng in the right is not always enough.

Ira



Excuse my cynicism but being in the right is RARELY enough when dealing with
a corporation or government entity.
I think Ira's advice is sound though not very satisfying, get the coins back
and refund the guy's money and move on.

Dale



  #7  
Old May 6th 06, 01:42 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
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Posts: n/a
Default e-Bay sale: Wow what a problem customer


"Dale Hallmark" dalehall"AT"cableone.net wrote in message
...

"Ira" wrote in message
ups.com...

*snip*

Excuse my cynicism but being in the right is RARELY enough when dealing
with a corporation or government entity.
I think Ira's advice is sound though not very satisfying, get the coins
back and refund the guy's money and move on.


What a crock of ****. PayPal will punish me even though I did everything
right and can prove shipment was received? This has me tempted to open a
new banking account, transfer all my funds to it, and delete my PayPal
account. Then let them try and get funds from me.

I need to sit on this for a while as I am quite angry at this situation. I
will make my decision when my head is a little more clear.


  #8  
Old May 6th 06, 01:56 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default e-Bay sale: Wow what a problem customer


"PC" wrote in message
...

"Dale Hallmark" dalehall"AT"cableone.net wrote in message
...

"Ira" wrote in message
ups.com...

*snip*

Excuse my cynicism but being in the right is RARELY enough when dealing
with a corporation or government entity.
I think Ira's advice is sound though not very satisfying, get the coins
back and refund the guy's money and move on.


What a crock of ****. PayPal will punish me even though I did everything
right and can prove shipment was received? This has me tempted to open a
new banking account, transfer all my funds to it, and delete my PayPal
account. Then let them try and get funds from me.



That is an option, I would be tempted.

Dale


  #9  
Old May 6th 06, 02:08 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
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Posts: n/a
Default e-Bay sale: Wow what a problem customer


"PC" wrote in message
...
Sound advice. I peeked at his feebacks and he has left 23 while receiving
20 himself. Most of the negatives against him complain of receiving the
wrong item or - get this - slow shipping. I don't plan on giving him
negative feedback first but I am counting on getting negative feedback

from
him even if I agree to refund all the shipping and handling fees. I fear
there is no way to win with this guy.



You don't say what you sold or how much it sold for or how many total
feedbacks he has, but if he has many thousands, having 20 negatives might
put him at 99% or 98% which won't win him any Nobel Prizes but isn't
unreasonable. If he only has a couple hundred total with 20 negatives I
would have cancelled his bid and blocked him, unless he sniped, in which
case you don't have the time to do that.

But in your future auctions you should rip out the word "immediately" as
some people will take that literally and throw a hissy fit if you don't
LITERALLY ship it immediately.

eBay is a strange experience. I have bought and sold on it for over eight
years and have dealt with and later got into email exchanges with some of
the nicest, most pleasant well-spoken people you'd ever want to meet, and
also some total assholes but hey, that's humanity for ya.

It's not all that different from when I managed a bookstore in the early
1970s. Some people come in, buy a book, pay for it, walk out, that's that.
Others were just royal pains in the butt but at least you deal with people
face to face when you work retail. When I correspond with an eBay buyer or
seller, and their spelling is horrible, I know they're going to be trouble,
and I'm usually right.

I've dealt with those high volume sellers and liquidators who get a couple
hundred feedbacks a day and use automatic checkout systems so that you get
the sense you've not even communicated with a human being (I hate that..) ..
and they tend to get a lot of negatives, and had both good and bad
experiences with them (these people tend to sell consumer electronics and
such, rather than coins..) .. dealt with total newbies and many people for
whom it was their first purchase and never left feedback or I had to explain
to them how to do it. I've had people leave me positives close to three
months after they bought something from me as in "Oh, so THAT'S how I leave
feedback"..

I've sold things to people who then refused to pay for it - I was selling
twelve seven-piece place settings of my late folks' china a few months ago -
packing that stuff is more trouble than I even want to describe, although
the more I did, the faster at it I got. One woman bought a set, one place
setting of seven pieces for like $175.00 and then when I requested payment,
she refused to pay saying "I thought I was getting twelve place settings
because you said so in your auction so I don't think it's worth it and I'm
not going to pay for it." Yeah sure, I was selling twelve place settings ONE
AT A TIME and I said so in each auction. Twelve seven piece place settings
of that pattern of china would cost about $3500.00 retail and she thought
that's what she was getting for $175.00? Uh-huh.. She was getting one place
setting for less than half retail and didn't think it was worth it. Some of
them just can't, don't, or won't read.

Anyway, I try to parse my descriptions and "Fine Print" terms of payment and
shipping so they are completely unambiguous. And go to tremendous lengths to
shoot the best pictures I can with a quality camera from many angles. Not
one tiny out of focus picture which can hide flaws. This protects me
because if there's some kind of idiotic dispute by a buyer, I have it right
there in black and white and glorious Technicolor (and you can't change a
description after an auction has closed.. although if you host your own
pictures, you CAN change them after the fact, but that's pretty sleazy..) ..
so I have proof if eBay or PayPal ever bares their fangs at me due to a
buyer's whining. My auctions typically say something like "I will ship 24-48
hours (weekends excepted).. upon receipt of clean payment" and never use the
word "immediately." And that's the word that got you into this mess with
that guy. So.. don't use it anymore and if it's in any of your current
autions, rip it outta there before they close.

Harv





  #10  
Old May 6th 06, 02:21 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
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Posts: n/a
Default e-Bay sale: Wow what a problem customer


"Dale Hallmark" dalehall"AT"cableone.net wrote in message
...


That is an option, I would be tempted.


If I merely update my PayPal account with a different checking account will
that take care of it? Or can they still dip into accounts they may know
about but are not associated with my PayPal account? The current account
associated is my main checking and would be problematic.

If it is true that my PayPal checking account will be frozen during the
dispute time then I just might have to eat this one.

Anyone who wants this guy's e-Bay ID so they can ban him from their auctions
email me at cameronscoins AT mn DOT rr DOT com.


 




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