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#1
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Denmark 1961 King Definitive Question
Most of these stamps occur in either non-flourescent ( no u/v
reaction) or flourescent ( very bold Yellow reaction under long wave u/ v ). I have 2 of this ( a 50 o red and a 60 o red) which display a weak white flourescent reaction under lw uv. Does this signify that the flourescence has washed off while soaking, or was there an issue on a whitened paper not deliberately flourescent to meet postal mechanisation needs? There are also a couple of the "wavy line" definitives which display the same characteristics. The flourescence while weaker than the yellow is quite obvious. The paper is not noticeably whiter in daylight than the normal, although there are some whiter non-flourescent papers used. The Stanley Gibbons specialised does not have any mention of this. Thanks in advance. Malcolm |
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#2
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Denmark 1961 King Definitive Question
My extensive collection of mint, never hinged Danish stamps shows many
variations of fluorescence. Most Danish stamps glow a very strong yellow under longwave ultraviolet light. Nonetheless, some also glow a pale version of yellow, some are also bright white or a mixture half white and half pale yellow, with a very distinct break in the middle of the design. Off-hand, Italy is another country that illustrates wide varieties in fluorescence during the 1960's and if memory serves me, Sweden has this fluorescent variety, as well, until this type of yellow fluorescence was dropped in 1976. These two countries also have stamps that glow a strong bright yellow and in the case of Italy, some of their stamps are either fully fluorescent or half fluorescent and half "dead." I doubt Stanley Gibbons would illustrate or mention any fluorscent varieties. Stanley Gibbons states in its catalogs that if the variety cannot be seen with the naked eye, the editors ignore it. Better sources would be Facit or AFA. I have a brand new 2008 Facit Frimarkskatalog Special but I have never found any description of the fluorescent varieties that both you and I have encountered in previous editions. AFA may be a better source, but I believe that very specialized catalog is written entirely in the Danish language. I would need to purchase a copy and a Danish-English philatelic dictionary to understand the book's listings. Mark Alan Coral Springs, FL |
#3
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Denmark 1961 King Definitive Question
On Mar 14, 6:51 pm, wrote:
My extensive collection of mint, never hinged Danish stamps shows many variations of fluorescence. Most Danish stamps glow a very strong yellow under longwave ultraviolet light. Nonetheless, some also glow a pale version of yellow, some are also bright white or a mixture half white and half pale yellow, with a very distinct break in the middle of the design. Off-hand, Italy is another country that illustrates wide varieties in fluorescence during the 1960's and if memory serves me, Sweden has this fluorescent variety, as well, until this type of yellow fluorescence was dropped in 1976. These two countries also have stamps that glow a strong bright yellow and in the case of Italy, some of their stamps are either fully fluorescent or half fluorescent and half "dead." I doubt Stanley Gibbons would illustrate or mention any fluorscent varieties. Stanley Gibbons states in its catalogs that if the variety cannot be seen with the naked eye, the editors ignore it. Better sources would be Facit or AFA. I have a brand new 2008 Facit Frimarkskatalog Special but I have never found any description of the fluorescent varieties that both you and I have encountered in previous editions. AFA may be a better source, but I believe that very specialized catalog is written entirely in the Danish language. I would need to purchase a copy and a Danish-English philatelic dictionary to understand the book's listings. Mark Alan Coral Springs, FL One reason that some fluorescent agents were dropped was that easily migrated (unwanted) to adjacent documents and stamps.This type of thing happened with Canadian stamps in the 1960s. It is well documented in Canada Specialized. The 1960s were an era of great experimentation in phosphor and fluorescent tagging. Blair |
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Denmark 1961 King Definitive Question
Another problem could be that some flourescence is "fugitive" under uv
light so prolonged examination under uv light could in fact change the very thing you are searching for. Having just bought 2 new uv lamps one sw and 1 lw I am examining all my duplicate definitives for variations. I have now turned up a whole series of West German definitives which show both yellow and white flourescence - so far I have noted the 1966 Brandenburg Gate, 1971 Industrial Safety coil stamps and 1975 Technology series. I am quite surprised that these variations extend over such a long timespan - one would expect one series to be yellow, one ( in transition) to be on both and the final one to be all on white. However I put forward the following hypothesis ( I do not have enough technological knowledge to put it forward as a definitive theory ). You could have a substance in solution which excites a uv reaction at a certain specific uv wavelength to create a given reaction. You could have a number of solutions containing this substance which react differently given what I think is a broader range of wavelengths present in commercial lamps. Does anyone have sufficient knowledge of uv technology to shoot down this hypothesis in flames. My argument is that provided the key substance is present the formulation of the remainder of the content will still remain within spec whatever other substances are present. Malcolm On Mar 15, 8:17*am, Tony Clayton wrote: In a recent message wrote: My extensive collection of mint, never hinged Danish stamps shows many variations of fluorescence. *Most Danish stamps glow a very strong yellow under longwave ultraviolet light. *Nonetheless, some also glow a pale version of yellow, some are also bright white or a mixture half white and half pale yellow, with a very distinct break in the middle of the design. Off-hand, Italy is another country that illustrates wide varieties in fluorescence during the 1960's and if memory serves me, Sweden has this fluorescent variety, as well, until this type of yellow fluorescence was dropped in 1976. *These two countries also have stamps that glow a strong bright yellow and in the case of Italy, some of their stamps are either fully fluorescent or half fluorescent and half "dead." I doubt Stanley Gibbons would illustrate or mention any fluorscent varieties. *Stanley Gibbons states in its catalogs that if the variety cannot be seen with the naked eye, the editors ignore it. Better sources would be Facit or AFA. *I have a brand new 2008 Facit Frimarkskatalog Special but I have never found any description of the fluorescent varieties that both you and I have encountered in previous editions. *AFA may be a better source, but I believe that very specialized catalog is written entirely in the Danish language. *I would need to purchase a copy and a Danish-English philatelic dictionary to understand the book's listings. The Italian fluorescent varieties are not even dealt with properly in the Sassone Specialised Catalogue (Vol 5) As I have acquired a great deal of material of the period, I am starting a study of the subject, but the problem is that used stamps soaked off paper can have altered fluorescence. The really interesting ones are those that SHOULD be fluorescent, but were printed on the wrong paper, which is not fluorescent and has a different type of stars watermark. After years of searching a collection originating in France had no less than 4 of these varieties (100 lire Syracuse coin small type, type 2 stars non fluorescent instead of type 4 stars). Sassone catalogues this at 100 euro, while CEI catalogues it at 20 euro, which is a bit of a difference! -- Tony Clayton * * * * * Coins of the UK * * *:http://www.coins-of-the-uk.co.uk Sent using RISCOS on an Acorn Strong Arm RiscPC ... FANATIC: one enthusiastic about something you don't care about.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - |
#6
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Denmark 1961 King Definitive Question
I am glad you mentioned the West German stamps having two types of
tagging, yellow and white. I had purchased two large collections of West German and West Berlin stamps with a lot of time overlap from 1960-1990. Much to my surprise I found that both collections were often quite different with tagging and what I thought would be a pile of leftover stamps actually became a huge specialized collection of both types of tagging. Mark Alan Coral Springs, FL |
#7
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Denmark 1961 King Definitive Question
The fluorescence that was used in Germany in the late fifties was a
substance that was mixed throughout the paper mass and shows a yellow signal that vanished after removing the UV-lamp. The same fluorescence was used in the Netherlands [1962], in France [1963], in Italy, Danmark, Sweden and a few more countries. When the stamps lateron got printed on coated paper the fluorescence got mixed with the substance that the coating was made up of. The very paper mass didn't have the yellow fluorescemce in the coated paper but had a white fluorescence - AKA optical brighening agent or OBA. The combined effect of both types of fluorescence [yellow in the coating, white in the paper mass] could range from yellowish, orange to greenish depending on the amount of OBA. The next step was to add OBA to the coating - to make it looks whiter than white - and the visual result under UV could be a rather whitish one. Moistening a stamp with OBA in the coating usually gives the effect of a mottled or stained yellow. That result also applies to stamps printed on phosphorescent coated paper. In mint stamps the white is evident, but after soaking off [or leaving the stamps in the sun] the yellow is dominating! In the German case the word 'tagging' is not correct.... groetjes, Rein Op Thu, 20 Mar 2008 04:26:54 +0100 schreef : I am glad you mentioned the West German stamps having two types of tagging, yellow and white. I had purchased two large collections of West German and West Berlin stamps with a lot of time overlap from 1960-1990. Much to my surprise I found that both collections were often quite different with tagging and what I thought would be a pile of leftover stamps actually became a huge specialized collection of both types of tagging. Mark Alan Coral Springs, FL -- Gemaakt met Opera's revolutionaire e-mailprogramma: http://www.opera.com/mail/ |
#8
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Denmark 1961 King Definitive Question
Tagging is a way of applying the luminescent substance on top of the paper
using for stamp printing. Most catalogues don't bother to explain a thing. Stamp paper nowadays usually consists of the two layers - the very paper mass and a coating. Both layers can contain luminescent substances. Or can be without. All combinations! I.e. OBA in the paper, nothing in the coating; OBA in the coating, nothing in the mass, etc. The tagging can be applied before the stamp gets printed or in a later phase of printing - usually at the very end in the form of bars. In 1963 the Swiss [and a bit later the Belgian] stamps printed in recess had uncoated paper with an impregnation of fluorescent fluid applied from the front of the paper. There is no way of telling it apart from paper without the fluorescence other than using the UV-lamp. All this is - as I said - considered too difficult to have collectors bothered with it - the result is that hardly anyone knows what is going on when they see a range of different results under the UV-lamp. I tried to get a systematical approach into the Belgian Stamp dealers catalogue OCB, but even though my set of paper types was accepted, they didn't want me to get into details too much groetjes, Rein Op Thu, 20 Mar 2008 06:06:40 +0100 schreef Rein : The fluorescence that was used in Germany in the late fifties was a substance that was mixed throughout the paper mass and shows a yellow signal that vanished after removing the UV-lamp. The same fluorescence was used in the Netherlands [1962], in France [1963], in Italy, Danmark, Sweden and a few more countries. When the stamps lateron got printed on coated paper the fluorescence got mixed with the substance that the coating was made up of. The very paper mass didn't have the yellow fluorescemce in the coated paper but had a white fluorescence - AKA optical brighening agent or OBA. The combined effect of both types of fluorescence [yellow in the coating, white in the paper mass] could range from yellowish, orange to greenish depending on the amount of OBA. The next step was to add OBA to the coating - to make it looks whiter than white - and the visual result under UV could be a rather whitish one. Moistening a stamp with OBA in the coating usually gives the effect of a mottled or stained yellow. That result also applies to stamps printed on phosphorescent coated paper. In mint stamps the white is evident, but after soaking off [or leaving the stamps in the sun] the yellow is dominating! In the German case the word 'tagging' is not correct.... groetjes, Rein Op Thu, 20 Mar 2008 04:26:54 +0100 schreef : I am glad you mentioned the West German stamps having two types of tagging, yellow and white. I had purchased two large collections of West German and West Berlin stamps with a lot of time overlap from 1960-1990. Much to my surprise I found that both collections were often quite different with tagging and what I thought would be a pile of leftover stamps actually became a huge specialized collection of both types of tagging. Mark Alan Coral Springs, FL -- Gemaakt met Opera's revolutionaire e-mailprogramma: http://www.opera.com/mail/ |
#9
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Denmark 1961 King Definitive Question
Rein wrote:
Tagging is a way of applying the luminescent substance on top of the paper using for stamp printing. Most catalogues don't bother to explain a thing. Stamp paper nowadays usually consists of the two layers - the very paper mass and a coating. Both layers can contain luminescent substances. Or can be without. All combinations! I.e. OBA in the paper, nothing in the coating; OBA in the coating, nothing in the mass, etc. The tagging can be applied before the stamp gets printed or in a later phase of printing - usually at the very end in the form of bars. In 1963 the Swiss [and a bit later the Belgian] stamps printed in recess had uncoated paper with an impregnation of fluorescent fluid applied from the front of the paper. There is no way of telling it apart from paper without the fluorescence other than using the UV-lamp. All this is - as I said - considered too difficult to have collectors bothered with it - the result is that hardly anyone knows what is going on when they see a range of different results under the UV-lamp. I tried to get a systematical approach into the Belgian Stamp dealers catalogue OCB, but even though my set of paper types was accepted, they didn't want me to get into details too much In the Unitrade specialized catalogue for Canadian stamps, paper fluorescence is quite important. There is a chart showing the 7 different grades of fluorescence and examples, where possible, from the 8 different paper manufacturers where a stamp is printed solely on that paper with that level of fluorescence. On the Centennial definitives, it can get to be quite a mess - all these different grades of fluorescence, 3 different chemical makeups for the tagging, different perforations, even fluorescent ink on one of the values. And as I recall, the Darnell catalogue even shows some paper varieties missing in the Unitrade, dealing with the level of fluorescence on the back of the stamp (commemorative stamps from the '70s, mostly). Ryan |
#10
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Denmark 1961 King Definitive Question
On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 06:42:30 +0100, Rein wrote:
Tagging is a way of applying the luminescent substance on top of the paper using for stamp printing. Most catalogues don't bother to explain a thing. Stamp paper nowadays usually consists of the two layers - the very paper mass and a coating. Both layers can contain luminescent substances. Or can be without. All combinations! I.e. OBA in the paper, nothing in the coating; OBA in the coating, nothing in the mass, etc. The tagging can be applied before the stamp gets printed or in a later phase of printing - usually at the very end in the form of bars. In 1963 the Swiss [and a bit later the Belgian] stamps printed in recess had uncoated paper with an impregnation of fluorescent fluid applied from the front of the paper. There is no way of telling it apart from paper without the fluorescence other than using the UV-lamp. All this is - as I said - considered too difficult to have collectors bothered with it - the result is that hardly anyone knows what is going on when they see a range of different results under the UV-lamp. I tried to get a systematical approach into the Belgian Stamp dealers catalogue OCB, but even though my set of paper types was accepted, they didn't want me to get into details too much Care to share them with us unwashed collectors that could use that info, or is it proprietary? :^) |
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