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anyone finding great lincolns



 
 
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  #21  
Old April 19th 10, 03:13 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
mazorj
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,169
Default anyone finding great lincolns


"sgt23" wrote in message
...
On Apr 18, 4:48 pm, "mazorj" wrote:
"sgt23" wrote in message

...
On Apr 17, 8:42 pm, Ken Fscher wrote:

On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 05:50:33 -0700 (PDT), Peter
wrote:


On Apr 16, 5:54 am, Ken Fscher wrote:


I had a "Whoa" when I was listing a 1916P Mercury
tonight and the picture of the reverse looked as if
there was a D but with the die mostly filled;


I must be confused. I don't see a 'mostly filled' D, anywhere on the
dime. It certainly is not where the mintmark usually appears.


I have a 30 power loupe, and I don't see it
on the coin, but when I look at the picture, "it looks
as if there was a D".


I searched to see if there was filled die strikes
cataloged and found a statement about 264,000
strikes and half a million coins in collections. :-)


For now I consider it an optical illusion,
but I won't list the coin.


I think you can be pretty confident if you didn't see a D under that
much magnification it does not exist.

Actually, anything over 5x is good mostly for spotting and identifying
extremely tiny isolated details like whether a really small dot is
perfectly
circular or slightly elliptical.

That means that super-magnification tends to lose the bigger picture of
the
forest's patterns of trees. These are better identified with low
magnification or the naked eye. Once identified that way, closer
examination under higher power (especially with stereo microscopes) gets
you
into the realm of nailing down specific die markers, looking for obscure
hints of counterfeiting, etc.


Has he tried that yet,

How would I know?

and if he doesn't see the D, are there any other possibilities?

Sure. When directly viewing the coin it could be something as simple as a
latent, vaguely D-shaped surface discoloration visible only under certain
lighting, angles, magnifications, etc. If you're looking at an image file
or print, it could be an artifact that is not present on the coin but
something that got added by uneven lighting, the lens, limitations or
defects on the imaging chip, the camera's recording algorithms,
post-production "enhancement" software, or issues with the viewing monitor
or printer.

Sorry you asked? :-)

Ads
  #22  
Old April 19th 10, 06:23 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
sgt23
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 816
Default anyone finding great lincolns

On Apr 18, 10:13*pm, "mazorj" wrote:
"sgt23" wrote in message

...
On Apr 18, 4:48 pm, "mazorj" wrote:

"sgt23" wrote in message


...
On Apr 17, 8:42 pm, Ken Fscher wrote:


On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 05:50:33 -0700 (PDT), Peter
wrote:


On Apr 16, 5:54 am, Ken Fscher wrote:


I had a "Whoa" when I was listing a 1916P Mercury
tonight and the picture of the reverse looked as if
there was a D but with the die mostly filled;


I must be confused. I don't see a 'mostly filled' D, anywhere on the
dime. It certainly is not where the mintmark usually appears.


I have a 30 power loupe, and I don't see it
on the coin, but when I look at the picture, "it looks
as if there was a D".


I searched to see if there was filled die strikes
cataloged and found a statement about 264,000
strikes and half a million coins in collections. :-)


For now I consider it an optical illusion,
but I won't list the coin.


I think you can be pretty confident if you didn't see a D under that
much magnification it does not exist.


Actually, anything over 5x is good mostly for spotting and identifying
extremely tiny isolated details like whether a really small dot is
perfectly
circular or slightly elliptical.


That means that super-magnification tends to lose the bigger picture of
the
forest's patterns of trees. These are better identified with low
magnification or the naked eye. Once identified that way, closer
examination under higher power (especially with stereo microscopes) gets
you
into the realm of nailing down specific die markers, looking for obscure
hints of counterfeiting, etc.



Has he tried that yet,

How would I know?

and if he doesn't see the D, are there any other possibilities?

Sure. *When directly viewing the coin it could be something as simple as a
latent, vaguely D-shaped surface discoloration visible only under certain
lighting, angles, magnifications, etc. *If you're looking at an image file
or print, it could be an artifact that is not present on the coin but
something that got added by uneven lighting, the lens, limitations or
defects on the imaging chip, the camera's recording algorithms,
post-production "enhancement" software, or issues with the viewing monitor
or printer.

Sorry you asked? *:-)


No I'm not really sorry asked, I'm always interested in learning
something new, and broadening my field of knowledge in the Numismatic
field. Thanks for feeling me in!
  #23  
Old April 19th 10, 06:28 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
sgt23
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 816
Default anyone finding great lincolns

On Apr 19, 5:48*am, Ken Fscher wrote:
On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 00:42:12 -0700 (PDT), sgt23



wrote:
On Apr 17, 8:42*pm, Ken Fscher wrote:
On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 05:50:33 -0700 (PDT), Peter
wrote:


On Apr 16, 5:54*am, Ken Fscher wrote:


* * * I had a "Whoa" when I was listing a 1916P Mercury
tonight and the picture of the reverse looked as if
there was a D but with the die mostly filled;


I must be confused. *I don't see a 'mostly filled' D, anywhere on the
dime. *It certainly is not where the mintmark usually appears.


* * * * I have a 30 power loupe, and I don't see it
on the coin, but when I look at the picture, "it looks
as if there was a D".


* * * * I searched to see if there was filled die strikes
cataloged and found a statement about 264,000
strikes and half a million coins in collections. :-)


* * * * For now I consider it an optical illusion,
but I won't list the coin.


I think you can be pretty confident if you didn't see a D under that
much magnification it does not exist.


* * * *But then, again, the 1922 No D was a filled die,
luckily the reverse helps in identification.

* * * *I am very interested in the numismatic technical
happenings to the dies, both die damage and man
made. * * I think a lot of attempts to repair some dies
are tried to keep the press going, and the coins are
the only clues about those.

* * * *That is why I have so many pennies selling on
ebay, it is a shame the mint quit selling 5000 coin
bags.


I feel that mint is only interested in what the investors want, and no
longer are interested in listening too the collectors. I guess it
doesn't really matter that we the collectors came along way before the
investor. If this was a business ran by me or you and we dropped our
main customers, we would have been out of business a long time ago.
Just my opinion, for whatever that might be worth.
  #24  
Old April 19th 10, 06:31 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
sgt23
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 816
Default anyone finding great lincolns

On Apr 19, 6:10*am, Ken Fscher wrote:
On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 17:49:08 -0700 (PDT), sgt23



wrote:
On Apr 18, 4:48*pm, "mazorj" wrote:
"sgt23" wrote in message


....
On Apr 17, 8:42 pm, Ken Fscher wrote:


On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 05:50:33 -0700 (PDT), Peter
wrote:


On Apr 16, 5:54 am, Ken Fscher wrote:


I had a "Whoa" when I was listing a 1916P Mercury
tonight and the picture of the reverse looked as if
there was a D but with the die mostly filled;


I must be confused. I don't see a 'mostly filled' D, anywhere on the
dime. It certainly is not where the mintmark usually appears.


I have a 30 power loupe, and I don't see it
on the coin, but when I look at the picture, "it looks
as if there was a D".


I searched to see if there was filled die strikes
cataloged and found a statement about 264,000
strikes and half a million coins in collections. :-)


For now I consider it an optical illusion,
but I won't list the coin.


I think you can be pretty confident if you didn't see a D under that
much magnification it does not exist.


Actually, anything over 5x is good mostly for spotting and identifying
extremely tiny isolated details like whether a really small dot is perfectly
circular or slightly elliptical.


That means that super-magnification tends to lose the bigger picture of the
forest's patterns of trees. *These are better identified with low
magnification or the naked eye. *Once identified that way, closer
examination under higher power (especially with stereo microscopes) gets you
into the realm of nailing down specific die markers, looking for obscure
hints of counterfeiting, etc.


Has he tried that yet, and if he doesn't see the D, are there any
other possibilities?


* * * * I see the D on the existing images and with a 5 power
large diameter lens I use (the cross-hair focusing lens from
a WWII fighter plane gunsight).

* * * * It is a very classic D image with the bottom left
missing and a groove down the middle of the top,
but it may be a little too big to be a mint mark,
I will be trying to find images that show the size
relative to the other devices.

* * * *I bought a refurbished Olympus that focuses
down to 0.4 inches and made a hand-held copy
stand that seems to work good when the camera
is not acting up, the thing just has too many
bells and whistles. * * So if I find out anything
definite and get some better pictures I will
post them.

* * * *With only 264,000 strikes there should
not have many dies used, that is helpful.

* * * *My 1956P Lincoln with a die crack on the
forehead and a die chip on one side of the
crack that looks like ooze did not sell on
ebay, the picture didn't turn out good, but
I have a couple more examples where the
chip got bigger causing a bigger ooze. :-)

* * * *There was a couple of bidders on the
ie in liberty 1957. * * And I am trying a way
to ship rolls in a padded mailer for less
than $2.50 first class package, I will
ask the first few buyers to let me know
if any coins get damaged.

* * * *I bought quite a few bank rolls of
56, 57 and 58 cents from somebody
posting here about 8 years ago, and
I opened them all, and some are really
nice, I like to expose them to the air
to see if they stay red and shiny.


Maybe your right and your 1916 Mercury is a Denver production, I am in
no way an expert on error or damaged coins. I'm just looking for a
discussion about coins
  #25  
Old April 19th 10, 10:48 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Ken Fscher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default anyone finding great lincolns

On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 00:42:12 -0700 (PDT), sgt23
wrote:

On Apr 17, 8:42Â*pm, Ken Fscher wrote:
On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 05:50:33 -0700 (PDT), Peter
wrote:

On Apr 16, 5:54Â*am, Ken Fscher wrote:


Â* Â* Â* I had a "Whoa" when I was listing a 1916P Mercury
tonight and the picture of the reverse looked as if
there was a D but with the die mostly filled;


I must be confused. Â*I don't see a 'mostly filled' D, anywhere on the
dime. Â*It certainly is not where the mintmark usually appears.


Â* Â* Â* Â* I have a 30 power loupe, and I don't see it
on the coin, but when I look at the picture, "it looks
as if there was a D".

Â* Â* Â* Â* I searched to see if there was filled die strikes
cataloged and found a statement about 264,000
strikes and half a million coins in collections. :-)

Â* Â* Â* Â* For now I consider it an optical illusion,
but I won't list the coin.


I think you can be pretty confident if you didn't see a D under that
much magnification it does not exist.



But then, again, the 1922 No D was a filled die,
luckily the reverse helps in identification.


I am very interested in the numismatic technical
happenings to the dies, both die damage and man
made. I think a lot of attempts to repair some dies
are tried to keep the press going, and the coins are
the only clues about those.

That is why I have so many pennies selling on
ebay, it is a shame the mint quit selling 5000 coin
bags.





  #26  
Old April 19th 10, 11:10 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Ken Fscher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default anyone finding great lincolns

On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 17:49:08 -0700 (PDT), sgt23
wrote:

On Apr 18, 4:48Â*pm, "mazorj" wrote:
"sgt23" wrote in message

...
On Apr 17, 8:42 pm, Ken Fscher wrote:



On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 05:50:33 -0700 (PDT), Peter
wrote:


On Apr 16, 5:54 am, Ken Fscher wrote:


I had a "Whoa" when I was listing a 1916P Mercury
tonight and the picture of the reverse looked as if
there was a D but with the die mostly filled;


I must be confused. I don't see a 'mostly filled' D, anywhere on the
dime. It certainly is not where the mintmark usually appears.


I have a 30 power loupe, and I don't see it
on the coin, but when I look at the picture, "it looks
as if there was a D".


I searched to see if there was filled die strikes
cataloged and found a statement about 264,000
strikes and half a million coins in collections. :-)


For now I consider it an optical illusion,
but I won't list the coin.


I think you can be pretty confident if you didn't see a D under that
much magnification it does not exist.

Actually, anything over 5x is good mostly for spotting and identifying
extremely tiny isolated details like whether a really small dot is perfectly
circular or slightly elliptical.

That means that super-magnification tends to lose the bigger picture of the
forest's patterns of trees. Â*These are better identified with low
magnification or the naked eye. Â*Once identified that way, closer
examination under higher power (especially with stereo microscopes) gets you
into the realm of nailing down specific die markers, looking for obscure
hints of counterfeiting, etc.


Has he tried that yet, and if he doesn't see the D, are there any
other possibilities?



I see the D on the existing images and with a 5 power
large diameter lens I use (the cross-hair focusing lens from
a WWII fighter plane gunsight).

It is a very classic D image with the bottom left
missing and a groove down the middle of the top,
but it may be a little too big to be a mint mark,
I will be trying to find images that show the size
relative to the other devices.

I bought a refurbished Olympus that focuses
down to 0.4 inches and made a hand-held copy
stand that seems to work good when the camera
is not acting up, the thing just has too many
bells and whistles. So if I find out anything
definite and get some better pictures I will
post them.

With only 264,000 strikes there should
not have many dies used, that is helpful.


My 1956P Lincoln with a die crack on the
forehead and a die chip on one side of the
crack that looks like ooze did not sell on
ebay, the picture didn't turn out good, but
I have a couple more examples where the
chip got bigger causing a bigger ooze. :-)

There was a couple of bidders on the
ie in liberty 1957. And I am trying a way
to ship rolls in a padded mailer for less
than $2.50 first class package, I will
ask the first few buyers to let me know
if any coins get damaged.

I bought quite a few bank rolls of
56, 57 and 58 cents from somebody
posting here about 8 years ago, and
I opened them all, and some are really
nice, I like to expose them to the air
to see if they stay red and shiny.




  #27  
Old April 19th 10, 05:23 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
mazorj
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,169
Default anyone finding great lincolns


"sgt23" wrote in message
...
On Apr 18, 10:13 pm, "mazorj" wrote:
"sgt23" wrote in message

...
On Apr 18, 4:48 pm, "mazorj" wrote:

"sgt23" wrote in message


...
On Apr 17, 8:42 pm, Ken Fscher wrote:


On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 05:50:33 -0700 (PDT), Peter
wrote:


On Apr 16, 5:54 am, Ken Fscher wrote:


I had a "Whoa" when I was listing a 1916P Mercury
tonight and the picture of the reverse looked as if
there was a D but with the die mostly filled;


I must be confused. I don't see a 'mostly filled' D, anywhere on the
dime. It certainly is not where the mintmark usually appears.


I have a 30 power loupe, and I don't see it
on the coin, but when I look at the picture, "it looks
as if there was a D".


I searched to see if there was filled die strikes
cataloged and found a statement about 264,000
strikes and half a million coins in collections. :-)


For now I consider it an optical illusion,
but I won't list the coin.


I think you can be pretty confident if you didn't see a D under that
much magnification it does not exist.


Actually, anything over 5x is good mostly for spotting and identifying
extremely tiny isolated details like whether a really small dot is
perfectly
circular or slightly elliptical.


That means that super-magnification tends to lose the bigger picture of
the
forest's patterns of trees. These are better identified with low
magnification or the naked eye. Once identified that way, closer
examination under higher power (especially with stereo microscopes) gets
you into the realm of nailing down specific die markers, looking for
obscure
hints of counterfeiting, etc.


Has he tried that yet,

How would I know?

and if he doesn't see the D, are there any other possibilities?

Sure. When directly viewing the coin it could be something as simple as a
latent, vaguely D-shaped surface discoloration visible only under certain
lighting, angles, magnifications, etc. If you're looking at an image file
or print, it could be an artifact that is not present on the coin but
something that got added by uneven lighting, the lens, limitations or
defects on the imaging chip, the camera's recording algorithms,
post-production "enhancement" software, or issues with the viewing monitor
or printer.

Sorry you asked? :-)


No I'm not really sorry asked, I'm always interested in learning
something new, and broadening my field of knowledge in the Numismatic
field. Thanks for feeling me in!

Glad to be of help - even if I'm not sure that I want to be guilty of
"feeling you in". ;-)

  #28  
Old April 20th 10, 03:49 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Ken Fischer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default anyone finding great lincolns

On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 22:28:39 -0700 (PDT), sgt23
wrote:

On Apr 19, 5:48Â*am, Ken Fscher wrote:
On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 00:42:12 -0700 (PDT), sgt23

wrote:
On Apr 17, 8:42Â*pm, Ken Fscher wrote:
On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 05:50:33 -0700 (PDT), Peter
wrote:


On Apr 16, 5:54Â*am, Ken Fscher wrote:


Â* Â* Â* I had a "Whoa" when I was listing a 1916P Mercury
tonight and the picture of the reverse looked as if
there was a D but with the die mostly filled;


I must be confused. Â*I don't see a 'mostly filled' D, anywhere on the
dime. Â*It certainly is not where the mintmark usually appears.


Â* Â* Â* Â* I have a 30 power loupe, and I don't see it
on the coin, but when I look at the picture, "it looks
as if there was a D".


Â* Â* Â* Â* I searched to see if there was filled die strikes
cataloged and found a statement about 264,000
strikes and half a million coins in collections. :-)


Â* Â* Â* Â* For now I consider it an optical illusion,
but I won't list the coin.


I think you can be pretty confident if you didn't see a D under that
much magnification it does not exist.


Â* Â* Â* Â*But then, again, the 1922 No D was a filled die,
luckily the reverse helps in identification.

Â* Â* Â* Â*I am very interested in the numismatic technical
happenings to the dies, both die damage and man
made. Â* Â* I think a lot of attempts to repair some dies
are tried to keep the press going, and the coins are
the only clues about those.

Â* Â* Â* Â*That is why I have so many pennies selling on
ebay, it is a shame the mint quit selling 5000 coin
bags.


I feel that mint is only interested in what the investors want, and no
longer are interested in listening too the collectors. I guess it
doesn't really matter that we the collectors came along way before the
investor. If this was a business ran by me or you and we dropped our
main customers, we would have been out of business a long time ago.
Just my opinion, for whatever that might be worth.


I think they went to the big hopper bags for
cents because of the huge volume of cents to
handle. There always was a cadre of high level
dealer investors that had an in with some sections
of the Mint or FRB, and they got early news of finds
and were able to buy up all likely bags.

Now it is the coin services that can make out
as long as they aren't bound by an agreement
with the Mint to return any errors.

I had a funny thing happen about 8 years ago,
I asked a dealer in SC for specific date bags of P cents
as near to early April 1995 as possible, and when they
came, the buckets had gone to the West Point Mint
before coming here.

I live in West Point, but not New York, and my
zip code is much different, so while it was probably
simply a postal misdirection, it made me wonder.

One of my brockage cents did not sell with
a starting bid of 99 cents, after looking at it again
it is obvious that it was hit a second time with a
blank planchet, the rim on one side is flat along
with smashed liberty and date and flatened area
on the bust.

Minor errors are poo-pooed by some experts,
they should be promoted because the things that
cause them are the most interesting part of the
treasure hunting aspect of the hobby.

I have some 1995P cents with a very short
die crack between the U and N in UNUM, like
U-NUM, it is unusual in that it isn't just a raised
line on the coin buy a deep crack, I don't see
how the metal could have opened up enough
to have such a deep crack.


I read a good article on the 1995P DD, it
makes a lot of sense, but there seems to be
an over-confidence in all other types of what
looks like doubling as just machine damage,
I have trouble understanding how a die can
shift or bounce and only do damage to one
or two letters or numbers and not others.





  #29  
Old April 20th 10, 03:55 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
sgt23
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 816
Default anyone finding great lincolns

On Apr 19, 12:23*pm, "mazorj" wrote:
"sgt23" wrote in message

...
On Apr 18, 10:13 pm, "mazorj" wrote:



"sgt23" wrote in message


....
On Apr 18, 4:48 pm, "mazorj" wrote:


"sgt23" wrote in message


....
On Apr 17, 8:42 pm, Ken Fscher wrote:


On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 05:50:33 -0700 (PDT), Peter
wrote:


On Apr 16, 5:54 am, Ken Fscher wrote:


I had a "Whoa" when I was listing a 1916P Mercury
tonight and the picture of the reverse looked as if
there was a D but with the die mostly filled;


I must be confused. I don't see a 'mostly filled' D, anywhere on the
dime. It certainly is not where the mintmark usually appears.


I have a 30 power loupe, and I don't see it
on the coin, but when I look at the picture, "it looks
as if there was a D".


I searched to see if there was filled die strikes
cataloged and found a statement about 264,000
strikes and half a million coins in collections. :-)


For now I consider it an optical illusion,
but I won't list the coin.


I think you can be pretty confident if you didn't see a D under that
much magnification it does not exist.


Actually, anything over 5x is good mostly for spotting and identifying
extremely tiny isolated details like whether a really small dot is
perfectly
circular or slightly elliptical.


That means that super-magnification tends to lose the bigger picture of
the
forest's patterns of trees. These are better identified with low
magnification or the naked eye. Once identified that way, closer
examination under higher power (especially with stereo microscopes) gets
you into the realm of nailing down specific die markers, looking for
obscure
hints of counterfeiting, etc.


Has he tried that yet,


How would I know?


and if he doesn't see the D, are there any other possibilities?


Sure. When directly viewing the coin it could be something as simple as a
latent, vaguely D-shaped surface discoloration visible only under certain
lighting, angles, magnifications, etc. If you're looking at an image file
or print, it could be an artifact that is not present on the coin but
something that got added by uneven lighting, the lens, limitations or
defects on the imaging chip, the camera's recording algorithms,
post-production "enhancement" software, or issues with the viewing monitor
or printer.


Sorry you asked? :-)


No I'm not really sorry asked, I'm always interested in learning
something new, and broadening my field of knowledge in the Numismatic
field. Thanks for feeling me in!

Glad to be of help - even if I'm not sure that I want to be guilty of
"feeling you in". *;-)


LOL, At least your not trying to feel me up. Sorry that was wrong...
Any ways thanks again!
  #30  
Old April 21st 10, 01:57 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Farmer Dave
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10
Default anyone finding great lincolns

On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 13:55:45 -0400, "mazorj"
wrote:


"Jerry Dennis" wrote in message
...

...
Oh, goodie! Something I can respond to. If you ever have the
opportunity, OLD time constructioners would nail a cent to the front
door frame of the house they were building. Usually a hole was
drilled through the cent and nailed in place, since nails back then
were somewhat expensive. As nails became cheaper, the coin would be
"triangled" with nails.

Jerry

Now that you mention it, I vaguely recall my father (who was a carpenter)
once telling me about how the "old-timers" sometimes would do that. Too bad
for the ones that were holed, though. Another technique would have been to
stash them in a spot that didn't require any fastening, such as in the
grooved inletting under a door sill or behind the inletted clamshell edge
trim along the top of the doorway.

Which I just realized hearkens directly back to ancient times when entryways
often were festooned with items and symbols to guard against evil gods and
spirits or propitiate the friendlier ones. It's amazing how some of these
primitive traditions have survived into modern times. And not all of them
are done on the sly. The tradition of the groom carrying his bride over the
threshold is rooted in the significance of doorways. And we still cling to
our many manifestations of the "lucky penny," such as inserting one in new
wallets and "penny loafer" moccasins. (Not to mention the obsolete but
presumably still extant practice of placing pennies on the eyes of the
departed.) Who knows, some day we may see numismatic metal detectors
fighting over trash heaps that are target-rich in old shoes and pocketbooks.
:-)

Poking around in attic woodwork and other concealed spots and even in
masonry can reveal other interesting workman "souvenirs". Skilled tradesmen
often would leave their names or initials, dates, and comments as a sort of
"Kilroy was here" message. Sometimes they'd leave a trinket or two, which I
suppose would qualify them as "construction exonumia". Or as ancestors of
the trinkets planted as a reward to successful geo-trackers.

- mazorj, Amateur Nail-Banger


I worked with a roofer once who would put a dollar bill under the
shingles. His thought was to leave something for the next roofer to
find!

Dave
 




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