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#21
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anyone finding great lincolns
"sgt23" wrote in message ... On Apr 18, 4:48 pm, "mazorj" wrote: "sgt23" wrote in message ... On Apr 17, 8:42 pm, Ken Fscher wrote: On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 05:50:33 -0700 (PDT), Peter wrote: On Apr 16, 5:54 am, Ken Fscher wrote: I had a "Whoa" when I was listing a 1916P Mercury tonight and the picture of the reverse looked as if there was a D but with the die mostly filled; I must be confused. I don't see a 'mostly filled' D, anywhere on the dime. It certainly is not where the mintmark usually appears. I have a 30 power loupe, and I don't see it on the coin, but when I look at the picture, "it looks as if there was a D". I searched to see if there was filled die strikes cataloged and found a statement about 264,000 strikes and half a million coins in collections. :-) For now I consider it an optical illusion, but I won't list the coin. I think you can be pretty confident if you didn't see a D under that much magnification it does not exist. Actually, anything over 5x is good mostly for spotting and identifying extremely tiny isolated details like whether a really small dot is perfectly circular or slightly elliptical. That means that super-magnification tends to lose the bigger picture of the forest's patterns of trees. These are better identified with low magnification or the naked eye. Once identified that way, closer examination under higher power (especially with stereo microscopes) gets you into the realm of nailing down specific die markers, looking for obscure hints of counterfeiting, etc. Has he tried that yet, How would I know? and if he doesn't see the D, are there any other possibilities? Sure. When directly viewing the coin it could be something as simple as a latent, vaguely D-shaped surface discoloration visible only under certain lighting, angles, magnifications, etc. If you're looking at an image file or print, it could be an artifact that is not present on the coin but something that got added by uneven lighting, the lens, limitations or defects on the imaging chip, the camera's recording algorithms, post-production "enhancement" software, or issues with the viewing monitor or printer. Sorry you asked? :-) |
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#22
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anyone finding great lincolns
On Apr 18, 10:13*pm, "mazorj" wrote:
"sgt23" wrote in message ... On Apr 18, 4:48 pm, "mazorj" wrote: "sgt23" wrote in message ... On Apr 17, 8:42 pm, Ken Fscher wrote: On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 05:50:33 -0700 (PDT), Peter wrote: On Apr 16, 5:54 am, Ken Fscher wrote: I had a "Whoa" when I was listing a 1916P Mercury tonight and the picture of the reverse looked as if there was a D but with the die mostly filled; I must be confused. I don't see a 'mostly filled' D, anywhere on the dime. It certainly is not where the mintmark usually appears. I have a 30 power loupe, and I don't see it on the coin, but when I look at the picture, "it looks as if there was a D". I searched to see if there was filled die strikes cataloged and found a statement about 264,000 strikes and half a million coins in collections. :-) For now I consider it an optical illusion, but I won't list the coin. I think you can be pretty confident if you didn't see a D under that much magnification it does not exist. Actually, anything over 5x is good mostly for spotting and identifying extremely tiny isolated details like whether a really small dot is perfectly circular or slightly elliptical. That means that super-magnification tends to lose the bigger picture of the forest's patterns of trees. These are better identified with low magnification or the naked eye. Once identified that way, closer examination under higher power (especially with stereo microscopes) gets you into the realm of nailing down specific die markers, looking for obscure hints of counterfeiting, etc. Has he tried that yet, How would I know? and if he doesn't see the D, are there any other possibilities? Sure. *When directly viewing the coin it could be something as simple as a latent, vaguely D-shaped surface discoloration visible only under certain lighting, angles, magnifications, etc. *If you're looking at an image file or print, it could be an artifact that is not present on the coin but something that got added by uneven lighting, the lens, limitations or defects on the imaging chip, the camera's recording algorithms, post-production "enhancement" software, or issues with the viewing monitor or printer. Sorry you asked? *:-) No I'm not really sorry asked, I'm always interested in learning something new, and broadening my field of knowledge in the Numismatic field. Thanks for feeling me in! |
#23
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anyone finding great lincolns
On Apr 19, 5:48*am, Ken Fscher wrote:
On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 00:42:12 -0700 (PDT), sgt23 wrote: On Apr 17, 8:42*pm, Ken Fscher wrote: On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 05:50:33 -0700 (PDT), Peter wrote: On Apr 16, 5:54*am, Ken Fscher wrote: * * * I had a "Whoa" when I was listing a 1916P Mercury tonight and the picture of the reverse looked as if there was a D but with the die mostly filled; I must be confused. *I don't see a 'mostly filled' D, anywhere on the dime. *It certainly is not where the mintmark usually appears. * * * * I have a 30 power loupe, and I don't see it on the coin, but when I look at the picture, "it looks as if there was a D". * * * * I searched to see if there was filled die strikes cataloged and found a statement about 264,000 strikes and half a million coins in collections. :-) * * * * For now I consider it an optical illusion, but I won't list the coin. I think you can be pretty confident if you didn't see a D under that much magnification it does not exist. * * * *But then, again, the 1922 No D was a filled die, luckily the reverse helps in identification. * * * *I am very interested in the numismatic technical happenings to the dies, both die damage and man made. * * I think a lot of attempts to repair some dies are tried to keep the press going, and the coins are the only clues about those. * * * *That is why I have so many pennies selling on ebay, it is a shame the mint quit selling 5000 coin bags. I feel that mint is only interested in what the investors want, and no longer are interested in listening too the collectors. I guess it doesn't really matter that we the collectors came along way before the investor. If this was a business ran by me or you and we dropped our main customers, we would have been out of business a long time ago. Just my opinion, for whatever that might be worth. |
#24
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anyone finding great lincolns
On Apr 19, 6:10*am, Ken Fscher wrote:
On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 17:49:08 -0700 (PDT), sgt23 wrote: On Apr 18, 4:48*pm, "mazorj" wrote: "sgt23" wrote in message .... On Apr 17, 8:42 pm, Ken Fscher wrote: On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 05:50:33 -0700 (PDT), Peter wrote: On Apr 16, 5:54 am, Ken Fscher wrote: I had a "Whoa" when I was listing a 1916P Mercury tonight and the picture of the reverse looked as if there was a D but with the die mostly filled; I must be confused. I don't see a 'mostly filled' D, anywhere on the dime. It certainly is not where the mintmark usually appears. I have a 30 power loupe, and I don't see it on the coin, but when I look at the picture, "it looks as if there was a D". I searched to see if there was filled die strikes cataloged and found a statement about 264,000 strikes and half a million coins in collections. :-) For now I consider it an optical illusion, but I won't list the coin. I think you can be pretty confident if you didn't see a D under that much magnification it does not exist. Actually, anything over 5x is good mostly for spotting and identifying extremely tiny isolated details like whether a really small dot is perfectly circular or slightly elliptical. That means that super-magnification tends to lose the bigger picture of the forest's patterns of trees. *These are better identified with low magnification or the naked eye. *Once identified that way, closer examination under higher power (especially with stereo microscopes) gets you into the realm of nailing down specific die markers, looking for obscure hints of counterfeiting, etc. Has he tried that yet, and if he doesn't see the D, are there any other possibilities? * * * * I see the D on the existing images and with a 5 power large diameter lens I use (the cross-hair focusing lens from a WWII fighter plane gunsight). * * * * It is a very classic D image with the bottom left missing and a groove down the middle of the top, but it may be a little too big to be a mint mark, I will be trying to find images that show the size relative to the other devices. * * * *I bought a refurbished Olympus that focuses down to 0.4 inches and made a hand-held copy stand that seems to work good when the camera is not acting up, the thing just has too many bells and whistles. * * So if I find out anything definite and get some better pictures I will post them. * * * *With only 264,000 strikes there should not have many dies used, that is helpful. * * * *My 1956P Lincoln with a die crack on the forehead and a die chip on one side of the crack that looks like ooze did not sell on ebay, the picture didn't turn out good, but I have a couple more examples where the chip got bigger causing a bigger ooze. :-) * * * *There was a couple of bidders on the ie in liberty 1957. * * And I am trying a way to ship rolls in a padded mailer for less than $2.50 first class package, I will ask the first few buyers to let me know if any coins get damaged. * * * *I bought quite a few bank rolls of 56, 57 and 58 cents from somebody posting here about 8 years ago, and I opened them all, and some are really nice, I like to expose them to the air to see if they stay red and shiny. Maybe your right and your 1916 Mercury is a Denver production, I am in no way an expert on error or damaged coins. I'm just looking for a discussion about coins |
#25
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anyone finding great lincolns
On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 00:42:12 -0700 (PDT), sgt23
wrote: On Apr 17, 8:42Â*pm, Ken Fscher wrote: On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 05:50:33 -0700 (PDT), Peter wrote: On Apr 16, 5:54Â*am, Ken Fscher wrote: Â* Â* Â* I had a "Whoa" when I was listing a 1916P Mercury tonight and the picture of the reverse looked as if there was a D but with the die mostly filled; I must be confused. Â*I don't see a 'mostly filled' D, anywhere on the dime. Â*It certainly is not where the mintmark usually appears. Â* Â* Â* Â* I have a 30 power loupe, and I don't see it on the coin, but when I look at the picture, "it looks as if there was a D". Â* Â* Â* Â* I searched to see if there was filled die strikes cataloged and found a statement about 264,000 strikes and half a million coins in collections. :-) Â* Â* Â* Â* For now I consider it an optical illusion, but I won't list the coin. I think you can be pretty confident if you didn't see a D under that much magnification it does not exist. But then, again, the 1922 No D was a filled die, luckily the reverse helps in identification. I am very interested in the numismatic technical happenings to the dies, both die damage and man made. I think a lot of attempts to repair some dies are tried to keep the press going, and the coins are the only clues about those. That is why I have so many pennies selling on ebay, it is a shame the mint quit selling 5000 coin bags. |
#26
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anyone finding great lincolns
On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 17:49:08 -0700 (PDT), sgt23
wrote: On Apr 18, 4:48Â*pm, "mazorj" wrote: "sgt23" wrote in message ... On Apr 17, 8:42 pm, Ken Fscher wrote: On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 05:50:33 -0700 (PDT), Peter wrote: On Apr 16, 5:54 am, Ken Fscher wrote: I had a "Whoa" when I was listing a 1916P Mercury tonight and the picture of the reverse looked as if there was a D but with the die mostly filled; I must be confused. I don't see a 'mostly filled' D, anywhere on the dime. It certainly is not where the mintmark usually appears. I have a 30 power loupe, and I don't see it on the coin, but when I look at the picture, "it looks as if there was a D". I searched to see if there was filled die strikes cataloged and found a statement about 264,000 strikes and half a million coins in collections. :-) For now I consider it an optical illusion, but I won't list the coin. I think you can be pretty confident if you didn't see a D under that much magnification it does not exist. Actually, anything over 5x is good mostly for spotting and identifying extremely tiny isolated details like whether a really small dot is perfectly circular or slightly elliptical. That means that super-magnification tends to lose the bigger picture of the forest's patterns of trees. Â*These are better identified with low magnification or the naked eye. Â*Once identified that way, closer examination under higher power (especially with stereo microscopes) gets you into the realm of nailing down specific die markers, looking for obscure hints of counterfeiting, etc. Has he tried that yet, and if he doesn't see the D, are there any other possibilities? I see the D on the existing images and with a 5 power large diameter lens I use (the cross-hair focusing lens from a WWII fighter plane gunsight). It is a very classic D image with the bottom left missing and a groove down the middle of the top, but it may be a little too big to be a mint mark, I will be trying to find images that show the size relative to the other devices. I bought a refurbished Olympus that focuses down to 0.4 inches and made a hand-held copy stand that seems to work good when the camera is not acting up, the thing just has too many bells and whistles. So if I find out anything definite and get some better pictures I will post them. With only 264,000 strikes there should not have many dies used, that is helpful. My 1956P Lincoln with a die crack on the forehead and a die chip on one side of the crack that looks like ooze did not sell on ebay, the picture didn't turn out good, but I have a couple more examples where the chip got bigger causing a bigger ooze. :-) There was a couple of bidders on the ie in liberty 1957. And I am trying a way to ship rolls in a padded mailer for less than $2.50 first class package, I will ask the first few buyers to let me know if any coins get damaged. I bought quite a few bank rolls of 56, 57 and 58 cents from somebody posting here about 8 years ago, and I opened them all, and some are really nice, I like to expose them to the air to see if they stay red and shiny. |
#27
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anyone finding great lincolns
"sgt23" wrote in message ... On Apr 18, 10:13 pm, "mazorj" wrote: "sgt23" wrote in message ... On Apr 18, 4:48 pm, "mazorj" wrote: "sgt23" wrote in message ... On Apr 17, 8:42 pm, Ken Fscher wrote: On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 05:50:33 -0700 (PDT), Peter wrote: On Apr 16, 5:54 am, Ken Fscher wrote: I had a "Whoa" when I was listing a 1916P Mercury tonight and the picture of the reverse looked as if there was a D but with the die mostly filled; I must be confused. I don't see a 'mostly filled' D, anywhere on the dime. It certainly is not where the mintmark usually appears. I have a 30 power loupe, and I don't see it on the coin, but when I look at the picture, "it looks as if there was a D". I searched to see if there was filled die strikes cataloged and found a statement about 264,000 strikes and half a million coins in collections. :-) For now I consider it an optical illusion, but I won't list the coin. I think you can be pretty confident if you didn't see a D under that much magnification it does not exist. Actually, anything over 5x is good mostly for spotting and identifying extremely tiny isolated details like whether a really small dot is perfectly circular or slightly elliptical. That means that super-magnification tends to lose the bigger picture of the forest's patterns of trees. These are better identified with low magnification or the naked eye. Once identified that way, closer examination under higher power (especially with stereo microscopes) gets you into the realm of nailing down specific die markers, looking for obscure hints of counterfeiting, etc. Has he tried that yet, How would I know? and if he doesn't see the D, are there any other possibilities? Sure. When directly viewing the coin it could be something as simple as a latent, vaguely D-shaped surface discoloration visible only under certain lighting, angles, magnifications, etc. If you're looking at an image file or print, it could be an artifact that is not present on the coin but something that got added by uneven lighting, the lens, limitations or defects on the imaging chip, the camera's recording algorithms, post-production "enhancement" software, or issues with the viewing monitor or printer. Sorry you asked? :-) No I'm not really sorry asked, I'm always interested in learning something new, and broadening my field of knowledge in the Numismatic field. Thanks for feeling me in! Glad to be of help - even if I'm not sure that I want to be guilty of "feeling you in". ;-) |
#28
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anyone finding great lincolns
On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 22:28:39 -0700 (PDT), sgt23
wrote: On Apr 19, 5:48Â*am, Ken Fscher wrote: On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 00:42:12 -0700 (PDT), sgt23 wrote: On Apr 17, 8:42Â*pm, Ken Fscher wrote: On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 05:50:33 -0700 (PDT), Peter wrote: On Apr 16, 5:54Â*am, Ken Fscher wrote: Â* Â* Â* I had a "Whoa" when I was listing a 1916P Mercury tonight and the picture of the reverse looked as if there was a D but with the die mostly filled; I must be confused. Â*I don't see a 'mostly filled' D, anywhere on the dime. Â*It certainly is not where the mintmark usually appears. Â* Â* Â* Â* I have a 30 power loupe, and I don't see it on the coin, but when I look at the picture, "it looks as if there was a D". Â* Â* Â* Â* I searched to see if there was filled die strikes cataloged and found a statement about 264,000 strikes and half a million coins in collections. :-) Â* Â* Â* Â* For now I consider it an optical illusion, but I won't list the coin. I think you can be pretty confident if you didn't see a D under that much magnification it does not exist. Â* Â* Â* Â*But then, again, the 1922 No D was a filled die, luckily the reverse helps in identification. Â* Â* Â* Â*I am very interested in the numismatic technical happenings to the dies, both die damage and man made. Â* Â* I think a lot of attempts to repair some dies are tried to keep the press going, and the coins are the only clues about those. Â* Â* Â* Â*That is why I have so many pennies selling on ebay, it is a shame the mint quit selling 5000 coin bags. I feel that mint is only interested in what the investors want, and no longer are interested in listening too the collectors. I guess it doesn't really matter that we the collectors came along way before the investor. If this was a business ran by me or you and we dropped our main customers, we would have been out of business a long time ago. Just my opinion, for whatever that might be worth. I think they went to the big hopper bags for cents because of the huge volume of cents to handle. There always was a cadre of high level dealer investors that had an in with some sections of the Mint or FRB, and they got early news of finds and were able to buy up all likely bags. Now it is the coin services that can make out as long as they aren't bound by an agreement with the Mint to return any errors. I had a funny thing happen about 8 years ago, I asked a dealer in SC for specific date bags of P cents as near to early April 1995 as possible, and when they came, the buckets had gone to the West Point Mint before coming here. I live in West Point, but not New York, and my zip code is much different, so while it was probably simply a postal misdirection, it made me wonder. One of my brockage cents did not sell with a starting bid of 99 cents, after looking at it again it is obvious that it was hit a second time with a blank planchet, the rim on one side is flat along with smashed liberty and date and flatened area on the bust. Minor errors are poo-pooed by some experts, they should be promoted because the things that cause them are the most interesting part of the treasure hunting aspect of the hobby. I have some 1995P cents with a very short die crack between the U and N in UNUM, like U-NUM, it is unusual in that it isn't just a raised line on the coin buy a deep crack, I don't see how the metal could have opened up enough to have such a deep crack. I read a good article on the 1995P DD, it makes a lot of sense, but there seems to be an over-confidence in all other types of what looks like doubling as just machine damage, I have trouble understanding how a die can shift or bounce and only do damage to one or two letters or numbers and not others. |
#29
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anyone finding great lincolns
On Apr 19, 12:23*pm, "mazorj" wrote:
"sgt23" wrote in message ... On Apr 18, 10:13 pm, "mazorj" wrote: "sgt23" wrote in message .... On Apr 18, 4:48 pm, "mazorj" wrote: "sgt23" wrote in message .... On Apr 17, 8:42 pm, Ken Fscher wrote: On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 05:50:33 -0700 (PDT), Peter wrote: On Apr 16, 5:54 am, Ken Fscher wrote: I had a "Whoa" when I was listing a 1916P Mercury tonight and the picture of the reverse looked as if there was a D but with the die mostly filled; I must be confused. I don't see a 'mostly filled' D, anywhere on the dime. It certainly is not where the mintmark usually appears. I have a 30 power loupe, and I don't see it on the coin, but when I look at the picture, "it looks as if there was a D". I searched to see if there was filled die strikes cataloged and found a statement about 264,000 strikes and half a million coins in collections. :-) For now I consider it an optical illusion, but I won't list the coin. I think you can be pretty confident if you didn't see a D under that much magnification it does not exist. Actually, anything over 5x is good mostly for spotting and identifying extremely tiny isolated details like whether a really small dot is perfectly circular or slightly elliptical. That means that super-magnification tends to lose the bigger picture of the forest's patterns of trees. These are better identified with low magnification or the naked eye. Once identified that way, closer examination under higher power (especially with stereo microscopes) gets you into the realm of nailing down specific die markers, looking for obscure hints of counterfeiting, etc. Has he tried that yet, How would I know? and if he doesn't see the D, are there any other possibilities? Sure. When directly viewing the coin it could be something as simple as a latent, vaguely D-shaped surface discoloration visible only under certain lighting, angles, magnifications, etc. If you're looking at an image file or print, it could be an artifact that is not present on the coin but something that got added by uneven lighting, the lens, limitations or defects on the imaging chip, the camera's recording algorithms, post-production "enhancement" software, or issues with the viewing monitor or printer. Sorry you asked? :-) No I'm not really sorry asked, I'm always interested in learning something new, and broadening my field of knowledge in the Numismatic field. Thanks for feeling me in! Glad to be of help - even if I'm not sure that I want to be guilty of "feeling you in". *;-) LOL, At least your not trying to feel me up. Sorry that was wrong... Any ways thanks again! |
#30
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anyone finding great lincolns
On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 13:55:45 -0400, "mazorj"
wrote: "Jerry Dennis" wrote in message ... ... Oh, goodie! Something I can respond to. If you ever have the opportunity, OLD time constructioners would nail a cent to the front door frame of the house they were building. Usually a hole was drilled through the cent and nailed in place, since nails back then were somewhat expensive. As nails became cheaper, the coin would be "triangled" with nails. Jerry Now that you mention it, I vaguely recall my father (who was a carpenter) once telling me about how the "old-timers" sometimes would do that. Too bad for the ones that were holed, though. Another technique would have been to stash them in a spot that didn't require any fastening, such as in the grooved inletting under a door sill or behind the inletted clamshell edge trim along the top of the doorway. Which I just realized hearkens directly back to ancient times when entryways often were festooned with items and symbols to guard against evil gods and spirits or propitiate the friendlier ones. It's amazing how some of these primitive traditions have survived into modern times. And not all of them are done on the sly. The tradition of the groom carrying his bride over the threshold is rooted in the significance of doorways. And we still cling to our many manifestations of the "lucky penny," such as inserting one in new wallets and "penny loafer" moccasins. (Not to mention the obsolete but presumably still extant practice of placing pennies on the eyes of the departed.) Who knows, some day we may see numismatic metal detectors fighting over trash heaps that are target-rich in old shoes and pocketbooks. :-) Poking around in attic woodwork and other concealed spots and even in masonry can reveal other interesting workman "souvenirs". Skilled tradesmen often would leave their names or initials, dates, and comments as a sort of "Kilroy was here" message. Sometimes they'd leave a trinket or two, which I suppose would qualify them as "construction exonumia". Or as ancestors of the trinkets planted as a reward to successful geo-trackers. - mazorj, Amateur Nail-Banger I worked with a roofer once who would put a dollar bill under the shingles. His thought was to leave something for the next roofer to find! Dave |
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