Collecting Counterfeits is Illegal, says Secret Service

It is against the law to own counterfeit US currency, according to
Special Agent Jeff Kegley of the the U. S. Secret Service Treasury
Obligations Section. Speaking to me on behalf of the public affairs
office, on July 9, 2004 at 2:30 pm EDT, agent Kegley said that he
"took exception" to the claim that the Secret Service "does nothing"
about the sale of counterfeit currency on eBay. Killing these illicit
auctions is routine, Kegley said. The Secret Service has their own
computer people monitoring online auctions. He pointed out, however,
that it is up to the public to report crimes.

He told me that if you know someone who is importing wholesale lots of
counterfeit coins, you should contact your local Secret Service field
office. "We are in the inside cover of your phone book, right next to
the FBI." The Secret Service has 100 offices in the USA and 17
overseas, including Hong Kong. According to Kegley, the Chinese
beheaded a major counterfeiter of U.S. currency about five years ago.

What about the fact that some collectors of half dollars from the
1820s and 1830s have a special interest in contemporary counterfeits?
"It is not legal for collectors to buy and sell counterfeits for their
collections, except as provided by the Hobby Protection Act. A
counterfeit is a counterfeit."

Kegley pointed out that several agencies are responsible for law
enforcement, even when it comes to money. The Secret Service has one
mandate; the US Mint police have another. Also, prosecutions are the
responsiblity of the US attorney's office. Contraband can be seized.
An operation can be shut down. Prosecutions may or may not follow.

(more later)

Michael E. Marotta wrote:
It is against the law to own counterfeit US currency, according to
Special Agent Jeff Kegley of the the U. S. Secret Service Treasury
Obligations Section. Speaking to me on behalf of the public affairs
office, on July 9, 2004 at 2:30 pm EDT, agent Kegley said that he
"took exception" to the claim that the Secret Service "does nothing"
about the sale of counterfeit currency on eBay. Killing these illicit
auctions is routine, Kegley said. The Secret Service has their own
computer people monitoring online auctions.

Indeed. From where I sit in the cheap seats, it looks like RCC is doing
a better job at exposing counterfeits on eBay than the Secret Service.

--
Bob

"Michael E. Marotta" wrote in message
m...
It is against the law to own counterfeit US currency, according to
Special Agent Jeff Kegley of the the U. S. Secret Service Treasury
Obligations Section. Speaking to me on behalf of the public affairs
office, on July 9, 2004 at 2:30 pm EDT, agent Kegley said that he
"took exception" to the claim that the Secret Service "does nothing"
about the sale of counterfeit currency on eBay. Killing these illicit
auctions is routine, Kegley said. The Secret Service has their own
computer people monitoring online auctions. He pointed out, however,
that it is up to the public to report crimes.

He told me that if you know someone who is importing wholesale lots of
counterfeit coins, you should contact your local Secret Service field
office. "We are in the inside cover of your phone book, right next to
the FBI." The Secret Service has 100 offices in the USA and 17
overseas, including Hong Kong. According to Kegley, the Chinese
beheaded a major counterfeiter of U.S. currency about five years ago.

What about the fact that some collectors of half dollars from the
1820s and 1830s have a special interest in contemporary counterfeits?
"It is not legal for collectors to buy and sell counterfeits for their
collections, except as provided by the Hobby Protection Act. A
counterfeit is a counterfeit."

Kegley pointed out that several agencies are responsible for law
enforcement, even when it comes to money. The Secret Service has one
mandate; the US Mint police have another. Also, prosecutions are the
responsiblity of the US attorney's office. Contraband can be seized.
An operation can be shut down. Prosecutions may or may not follow.

(more later)

May one presume you believe more damage is done to the hobby from the
selling of counterfeit coins than in the selling of overgraded or doctored
coins?
Steve Deitert

On Fri, 9 Jul 2004 13:13:25 -0700, "Bob Flaminio"
wrote:

Michael E. Marotta wrote:
It is against the law to own counterfeit US currency, according to
Special Agent Jeff Kegley of the the U. S. Secret Service Treasury
Obligations Section. Speaking to me on behalf of the public affairs
office, on July 9, 2004 at 2:30 pm EDT, agent Kegley said that he
"took exception" to the claim that the Secret Service "does nothing"
about the sale of counterfeit currency on eBay. Killing these illicit
auctions is routine, Kegley said. The Secret Service has their own
computer people monitoring online auctions.

Indeed. From where I sit in the cheap seats, it looks like RCC is doing
a better job at exposing counterfeits on eBay than the Secret Service.

Just call us "the online police" Someone has to warn/protect the
newbies and uninformed!!

Gary

Steve wrote:

(snip)

May one presume you believe more damage is done to the hobby from the
selling of counterfeit coins than in the selling of overgraded or doctored
coins?
Steve Deitert

It's not a position that I can take, but, FWIW, Virgil Hancock, in his
book on Counterfeits, went so far as to include overgraded coins as
'counterfeit'. Altered coins are counterfeit, of course, but it seems
extreme to me to include misstated grading in the same hopper.

Both are harmful, but a counterfeit or altered coin is forever
deceptive, while a mistated grade is a passing fancy, whether a dealer's
verbal statement or the designation on a slab.

Alan
'but there it is'

Please no more as this subject has been beaten to death many many times,
and Reid has more to occupy himself so he won't have time to reply.
Billy


"Michael E. Marotta" wrote:

It is against the law to own counterfeit US currency, according to
Special Agent Jeff Kegley of the the U. S. Secret Service Treasury
Obligations Section. Speaking to me on behalf of the public affairs
office, on July 9, 2004 at 2:30 pm EDT, agent Kegley said that he
"took exception" to the claim that the Secret Service "does nothing"
about the sale of counterfeit currency on eBay. Killing these illicit
auctions is routine, Kegley said. The Secret Service has their own
computer people monitoring online auctions. He pointed out, however,
that it is up to the public to report crimes.

He told me that if you know someone who is importing wholesale lots of
counterfeit coins, you should contact your local Secret Service field
office. "We are in the inside cover of your phone book, right next to
the FBI." The Secret Service has 100 offices in the USA and 17
overseas, including Hong Kong. According to Kegley, the Chinese
beheaded a major counterfeiter of U.S. currency about five years ago.

What about the fact that some collectors of half dollars from the
1820s and 1830s have a special interest in contemporary counterfeits?
"It is not legal for collectors to buy and sell counterfeits for their
collections, except as provided by the Hobby Protection Act. A
counterfeit is a counterfeit."

Kegley pointed out that several agencies are responsible for law
enforcement, even when it comes to money. The Secret Service has one
mandate; the US Mint police have another. Also, prosecutions are the
responsiblity of the US attorney's office. Contraband can be seized.
An operation can be shut down. Prosecutions may or may not follow.

(more later)

On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 20:54:45 GMT, Alan Williams
wrote:

Steve wrote:

(snip)

May one presume you believe more damage is done to the hobby from the
selling of counterfeit coins than in the selling of overgraded or doctored
coins?
Steve Deitert

It's not a position that I can take, but, FWIW, Virgil Hancock, in his
book on Counterfeits, went so far as to include overgraded coins as
'counterfeit'. Altered coins are counterfeit, of course, but it seems
extreme to me to include misstated grading in the same hopper.

Both are harmful, but a counterfeit or altered coin is forever
deceptive, while a mistated grade is a passing fancy, whether a dealer's
verbal statement or the designation on a slab.

An over graded coin is counterfeit!?!?!?!?!?!???!!?! BullS---. An
authentic coin is an authentic coin whether it is over graded or
NOT!!!!!!! Besides most self respecting SLABBERS will BB a counterfeit
coin..........

Gary

'doesn't agree with Virgil Hancock, but hopes Phil Demayo agrees
with me, I, like him, am here for my fellow stooge......er
friend........ '

Michael wrote: "....according to Special Agent Jeff Kegley of the the U. S.
Secret Service Treasury Obligations Section. Speaking to me on behalf of the
public affairs office, on July 9, 2004 at 2:30 pm EDT...."

In stark contrast to the definitive statement above is the nebulous remark made
by Reid on or about 6-10-2001: "As context, let me repeat that I had earlier
talked with the top counterfeiting guy at the ANA, the top one at the ANS, and
the top one (from what I was told by the ANA) at the counterfeit division at
Secret Service headquarters...."


Anka

On 9 Jul 2004 13:09:34 -0700, Michael E. Marotta
wrote:


What about the fact that some collectors of half dollars from the
1820s and 1830s have a special interest in contemporary counterfeits?
"It is not legal for collectors to buy and sell counterfeits for their
collections, except as provided by the Hobby Protection Act. A
counterfeit is a counterfeit."

Kegley pointed out that several agencies are responsible for law
enforcement, even when it comes to money. The Secret Service has one
mandate; the US Mint police have another. Also, prosecutions are the
responsiblity of the US attorney's office. Contraband can be seized.
An operation can be shut down. Prosecutions may or may not follow.

(more later)

Better tell the ANA, in the June issue contemporary counterfeits were
called very collectable. Better tell the major auction houses which
routinely sell old, contemporary counterfeits. Most of all better tell
The Market (which some assert is always right) which places a premium on
some contemporary counterfeits.

Everyone agrees counterfeitting modern cirrency is very wrong.
Everyone agrees that making counterfeits of collectible coins is very
wrong.
I agree that all modern replicas should follow the HPA (heck I'll even go
for uniface only).
But to include historic objects with legitimate value such as old
contemporary counterfeits whether of Baltic coins, bust halves, or Greek
drachms with counterfeit currency, modern reproductions, and Bulgarian
forgeries and to implicitly assign the same harm to the community from
both classes of objects is simply intellectually dishonest.

In article ,
Jorg Lueke wrote:

Most of all better tell
The Market (which some assert is always right) which places a premium on
some contemporary counterfeits.

As I recall, all the posts that I've seen in this newsgroup (limited as
it is to the last six months or so) referring to the Market as being
always right were in the context of the price/value for coins. I've not
seen market price/value discussions in terms of legality.

Scot Kamins
--
"Speak your truth, even as your voice quakes."