1964-D Franklin Silver Half Dollar Fantasy Now Available

Brand New issue!



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http://www.dc-coin.com/1grabenercoin...ice-1-3-1.aspx

In article ,
Daniel Carr wrote:
Brand New issue!



http://www.dc-coin.com/images/produc..._1964d_1.2.jpg

http://www.dc-coin.com/1grabenercoin...ice-1-3-1.aspx

Producing an altered US coin seems to me to be asking for trouble. Sure,
mutilation of coins is legal as long as no fraud is intended--you can
role them through flattening machines, drill holes in them to turn them
into pendants, cut out the relevant picture bits for jewelry, etc., but
slightly altering the markings to make it look like something that would
be worth a lot if real--that is too close to counterfeiting.

--
"Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS
crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in
TARP money, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in
bonuses, and paid no taxes? Yeah, me neither."

On Sep 21, 2:40*am, (Paul Ciszek) wrote:
In article ,

Daniel Carr wrote:
Brand New issue!

http://www.dc-coin.com/images/produc..._1964d_1.2.jpg

http://www.dc-coin.com/1grabenercoin...ice-1-3-1.aspx

Producing an altered US coin seems to me to be asking for trouble. *Sure,
mutilation of coins is legal as long as no fraud is intended--you can
role them through flattening machines, drill holes in them to turn them
into pendants, cut out the relevant picture bits for jewelry, etc., but
slightly altering the markings to make it look like something that would
be worth a lot if real--that is too close to counterfeiting.

--
"Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS
crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in
TARP money, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in
bonuses, and paid no taxes? Yeah, me neither."

When the "Clinton" Arkansas quarters were produced (not a Carr
product), they were struck over other original Statehood Quarters and
apparently there was no foul, or no foul worthy of pursuit.

Also, if you look at the Carr website, the 1964 "D" Peace Dollars
fantasies look like the dangerous thing to me (compared to the 1964
Franklins); undoubtedly there are thousands of these 1964 "D" Peace
Dollars, real ones, in existence. The people who own them are very
important people (or the children and grandchildren of deceased
important people) at the top of our nation's political classes.

Not to say that you don't really want to attract attention of the big
Bull, and not to say that "unwritten rules" can't be changed at any
time, but striking over original coins to produce a new "near novelty"
coin hasn't drawn much attention from the PTB in the recent past.

The fact that the OP only put up his message for a short period
suggests that the OP is possibly a bit worried about the status of
such pieces. He wants publicity but not too much.

oly

It seems this Carr fellow knows in his heart that what he is doing is wrong,
but trys to convince himself that he is not doing wrong by strictly
following the letter of he law.


"Daniel Carr" wrote in message
...
Brand New issue!



http://www.dc-coin.com/images/produc..._1964d_1.2.jpg

http://www.dc-coin.com/1grabenercoin...ice-1-3-1.aspx

On Sep 21, 6:00*am, "Chaim Weizmann" wrote:
It seems this Carr fellow knows in his heart that what he is doing is wrong,
but trys to convince himself that he is not doing wrong by strictly
following the letter of he law.

"Daniel Carr" wrote in message

...



Brand New issue!

http://www.dc-coin.com/images/produc..._1964d_1.2.jpg

http://www.dc-coin.com/1grabenercoin...ce-1-3-1.aspx- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Much of his argument for legitimacy is close to the line of thought
that the elongated coin people utilize; and if you strike a fantasy
coin over a real legitimate coin of the realm, what is the actual loss
to the state or sovereign???

Carr's foul may be no worse than using a phoney baloney internet
handle like "Chaim Weizmann"...

oly

18 USC §331:

"Whoever fraudulently alters, defaces, mutilates, impairs, diminishes,
falsifies, scales or lightens any of the coins coined at the mints of the
United States, or any foreign coins which are by law made current or are in
actual use or circulation as money within the United States; or whoever
fraudulently possesses, passes, utters, publishes, or sells, or attempts to
pass, utter, publish, or sell, or brings into the United States, any such
coin, knowing the same to be altered, defaced, mutilated, impaired,
diminished, falsified, scaled or lightened - shall be fined under this
title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both."

Making a $15 common Franklin into a $90 1964-D "fantasy" piece really seems
to be tempting fate with respect to this. It is definitely altering a
genuine coin. The result is a piece that's being valued higher than the
original. I would not want to have to defend my actions as being non-
fraudulent.

18 USC §487:

"Whoever, without lawful authority, makes any die, hub, or mold, or any
part thereof, either of steel or plaster, or any other substance, in
likeness or similitude, as to the design or the inscription thereon, of any
die, hub, or mold designated for the coining or making of any of the
genuine gold, silver, nickel, bronze, copper, or other coins coined at the
mints of the United States; or
"Whoever, without lawful authority, possesses any such die, hub, or mold,
or any part thereof, or permits the same to be used for or in aid of the
counterfeiting of any such coins of the United States - Shall be fined
under this title or imprisoned not more than fifteen years, or both."

Is selling these as fantasy pieces not marked as copies of real coins
(which 1964-D Franklins would have been) that may eventually end up in the
hands of someone that passes them off to the unsuspecting as real
permitting these dies to be used in the aid of counterfeiting? Again, I
would not want to have to defend my actions here.

Without being stamped COPY these are counterfeits and thus illegal.

"Paul Ciszek" wrote in message
...

In article ,
Daniel Carr wrote:
Brand New issue!



http://www.dc-coin.com/images/produc..._1964d_1.2.jpg

http://www.dc-coin.com/1grabenercoin...ice-1-3-1.aspx

Producing an altered US coin seems to me to be asking for trouble. Sure,
mutilation of coins is legal as long as no fraud is intended--you can
role them through flattening machines, drill holes in them to turn them
into pendants, cut out the relevant picture bits for jewelry, etc., but
slightly altering the markings to make it look like something that would
be worth a lot if real--that is too close to counterfeiting.


Not to politicize this (merely making an analogy), but to me, this is kinda
like the Ground Zero mosque on a certain level- yes, you can do it, but the
question is should you do it?

On Sep 20, 5:30*pm, "Daniel Carr" wrote:
Brand New issue!

http://www.dc-coin.com/images/produc..._1964d_1.2.jpg

http://www.dc-coin.com/1grabenercoin...ice-1-3-1.aspx

Replying to Dan's post, but directed to everyone. Dan is very well
respected. He's submitted a number of designs for the Statehood
Quarter program; NY and RI (I believe) having been approved and
circulating now.

I'm sure Dan has checked with the Mint to see if his fantasy coin was
legal. If not, I'm quite sure he wouldn't have produced it.

Jerry

On Sep 21, 7:53*pm, Jerry Dennis wrote:
On Sep 20, 5:30*pm, "Daniel Carr" wrote:

Brand New issue!

http://www.dc-coin.com/images/produc..._1964d_1.2.jpg

http://www.dc-coin.com/1grabenercoin...ice-1-3-1.aspx

Replying to Dan's post, but directed to everyone. *Dan is very well
respected. *He's submitted a number of designs for the Statehood
Quarter program; NY and RI (I believe) having been approved and
circulating now.

I'm sure Dan has checked with the Mint to see if his fantasy coin was
legal. *If not, I'm quite sure he wouldn't have produced it.

Jerry

The Mint isn't the entity that regulates this type of thing. The Mint
produces circulating coins and sells them to the Federal Reserve
Banking System, and that is 98%+ of what the Mint does. The Mint may
have a legal staff who has an opinion, but their opinion would hardly
be binding. The Mint is hardly some great monolithic entity with all
wisdom; they've proved that time and time again. The Secret Service
probably regulates and polices this type of thing.

oly