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Game worn jersey (in seconds)



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 15th 03, 02:38 AM
Ted Kupczyk
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Default Game worn jersey (in seconds)

From ESPN.com

http://msn.espn.go.com/sportsbusines...1/1579655.html

Nothing memorable about this special "event"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
By Darren Rovell
ESPN.com

LOS ANGELES -- Behind the end zone at the Los Angeles Coliseum, Terrell
Suggs stands in front of a table stacked with Baltimore Ravens jerseys. One
by one, he slips them over his head and shoulder pads, then quickly back off
again as if on a quest to find one that fits.


Terrell Suggs' Upper Deck rookie card may include a swatch of clothing from
either a Ray Lewis or Peter Boulware jersey.
The NFL hasn't played a game here since the Raiders left town for Oakland
back in 1995 and, as evidenced by the names and numbers on the uniforms,
Suggs will never wear any of these jerseys in an actual game anyway.
"They're not going to really sell the numbers," said Suggs, who had slipped
off Ray Lewis' No. 52 jersey and on Peter Boulware's No. 58, "they're just
going to sell a piece of the clothing."

As he reaches behind his head to remove yet another jersey, an attendant
stands ready to place it in a pile with others that soon will be shipped
back to Carlsbad, Calif., home of trading card giant Upper Deck. There each
jersey will be cut into 1,000 swatches and inserted into trading cards that
will become part of this year's NFL rookie card collections.

"Event worn" is the tout that has made these special trading cards so
popular and has helped to bolster a once-sagging NFL card market that is
expected to hit $84 million this year. But as Suggs and 29 other recent
draftees proved in May, the "event" is the NFL's Players Rookie Premiere --
an occasion for which players are paid to pose for pictures taken by trading
card companies -- and the jerseys often aren't "worn" for very long.

Nothing wrong with that, said Doug Allen, assistant executive director of
the NFL Players Association, which oversees the event.

"There is absolutely no intent to fool anyone," he said. "We've gone over
the procedure with the card companies and we're very comfortable. Whether a
player wears a jersey for a few minutes or 20 minutes, what difference does
it make as long as it's worn at the event?"

Since game-used memorabilia isn't available from rookies who have never
played in a professional game, card companies have seized on the opportunity
to collect clothing worn and gear used at created events like the Rookie
Premiere. The pictures they take will appear on the cards, and so, too, will
the swatches of jerseys or shoes they quickly try on, or perhaps a piece of
a football they briefly toss around.


Byron Leftwich's rookie trading card, produced by Donruss, notes that the
swatches of jersey and football in it were collected at the "2003 NFL
Players Rookie Premiere." It does not, however, explain what the event is,
or how long the items were used.

"Get a little foot sweat going on," a card company employee tells Byron
Leftwich as the Jacksonville Jaguars' rookie quarterback makes his way
through box after box of football cleats. Players often never bother to tie
the laces before slipping off the shoes and tossing them back into their
box.

At a nearby station, players seated in folding chairs pitch footballs back
and forth to an attendant standing five feet away. After four or five
tosses, the balls are deposited into a box with the player's name on it.

Bill Dully, president of Upper Deck's rival, Donruss, explained the process:

"We want them to put the cleats on. We ask them to; they step into them. We
ask them to put the jerseys on; they step into them. They take them off. We
inventory them. And we send them back here to the building where we put them
into an inventory control system. And then we put them into cards.

"What mainly makes it OK is that on the back of the card we do state in
writing that this is an 'event-used' item and was taken at the NFL Rookie
photo shoot. There is no gray area in our language how we market or what we
put on our cards."

Officials with industry leader Upper Deck refused multiple requests for
comment. The company also declined to issue a statement regarding event-worn
materials included in their cards.

Victor Shaw of Faribault, Minn., a buyer and seller of game-used
memorabilia, including event-worn cards, said he was already a skeptic of
game-used cards in general because the swatches of material are too clean
and actual proof of visible game use is rare. A spot of blood or dirt can
increase the cards value by five to 10 times, he says. But after watching a
video tape of Leftwich going through the motions of trying on shoe after
shoe, Shaw said collectors will be disappointed.

" You need to wear it some time. You can't just try it on. That's not
really fair to the collector. We're expecting something that the player was
with quite a while, not just that he touched it. ... If it's not even part
of the action, then why bother? "
- Collector Victor Shaw, on "event-worn" jerseys that are included in
rookie trading cards
"You need to wear it some time. You can't just try it on," Shaw said.
"That's not really fair to the collector. We're expecting something that the
player was with quite a while, not just that he touched it."

"If it's not even part of the action," he asked, "then why bother?"

Swatches of sports memorabilia, including game-used materials ranging from
footballs and helmets to baseballs and bases, have been layered inside cards
since 1996. These cards have helped to keep alive the sports card industry,
which has steadily declined from its height in the early '90s. Memorabilia
cards are expected to be the driving force in the NFL card industry again
this year, and event-worn rookie cards will comprise between 1 and 5 percent
of all football memorabilia cards, according to Greg Ambrosius, a senior
editor for Sports Collector's Digest, an industry trade publication.

But when Donruss' "2003 Playoff Absolute Memorabilia" arrives in two weeks
at the local hobby store in Hanover, Pa., 11-year-old Jeff Wise said he
would be less inclined to put his entire $20 weekly allowance toward buying
packs for the chance to get an event-worn rookie card. He said he's not
giving up his event-worn collection, but his passion has been dulled because
he does care how long the players have worn the items.

"You don't want it to be just tried on," says Wise, a Ravens fan who owns
more than 100 memorabilia cards -- some "game worn," some "event worn." "You
want it worn ... like an hour maybe. Not just like run out for two passes
and take them off. Or not just throw two passes and switch it. Wear it for
20 passes and run out for a pass 20 times."

Many players at the NFL Players Rookie Premiere seemed unaware of exactly
what was going on at the event-worn stations. Leftwich said it is hard for a
player to monitor everything that was going on over the two-day period and
how all the items would be used.

"Putting a lot of stuff on. Taking a lot of stuff off," Leftwich said at the
Rookie Premiere. "I don't know what they are going to do with the stuff."

Afterward, he added: "I ain't gonna give up their secret. But you know what
they're doing. When you sit there and think about it, you're just doing it.
You don't have a problem with it, you're just happy that they asked you to
be a part of it."

Suggs said he didn't have a problem putting on the items, "as long as people
know that we only had it on for a few minutes."

Shaw has read the back of the cards, but after seeing the amount of use
event-worn materials actually get, he said the card companies still don't
tell collectors enough. If they did, he reasoned, the secondary market for
the cards might be sent on the decline, the result of fewer collectors
buying boxes of the cards.


Michael Vick's 2001 rookie trading card, produced by Upper Deck, has a
swatch of a Falcons' jersey. It is trading on the secondary market for more
than $1,700.
Collectors could stand to lose on the secondary market, as well. A 2001
autographed, event-worn jersey card featuring Michael Vick recently sold for
more than $1,300, but collectors could shy away from spending as much on
items that reek of assembly-line production.

But Howard Wheeler, a longtime collector from Syracuse, N.Y., who recently
purchased two Antwaan Randle El rookie cards, was skeptical that word of how
memorabilia is collected for the card will hurt their value.

"(It is) bogus, in essence. They are barely putting them on," he said. "But
for some of us, that's as close as we ever get to any of these players."

One industry insider believes the game-worn card market is on the decline
anyway.

"In 1997, when Upper Deck started doing memorabilia cards, they had three
versions of jersey cards all year," said Rich Klein, price guide analyst for
Beckett.com. "Now, if you want, you can be guaranteed to get a memorabilia
card in every pack."

Dully says Donruss constantly reviews how collectors perceive his company's
products. "Today, I'm comfortable, but it is definitely an evolutionary
process," he said.

That process isn't evolving fast enough for Kathy Wise, Jeff's mom, who now
isn't too happy about where her money is going.

"I would think that they would make more of an effort to make them a genuine
product -- a little more than they've done," she said.

Darren Rovell, who covers sports business for ESPN.com, can be reached at




Ads
  #2  
Old July 15th 03, 08:12 PM
ImSoExcitedImSoExcitedImsoSCARED
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

This "expose" is bull****, as most of Beckett.com's message board members have
come to conclusion about.

Like the article admits, these are "event-worn" materials, not actual game-worn
material.

Now if they wanted to get into an expose about how game worn jerseys are
store-bought, then we're talking.
-----------------
"It's no secret around Nashville that Kid Kash beats his women!" - Kid Kash,
TNA, June 2003.


  #3  
Old July 17th 03, 02:08 AM
Ted Kupczyk
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

It should be noted, though, that Dave "Deacon" Jones used to be a writer /
contributor to Tuff Stuff magazine. He was dismissed after he wrote an
article about game used cards of his and he had no idea where they got his
uniform. He did not even own a uniform of his. His last article was about
a year and a half ago.

I have well over 100 game used and event used jersey cards - so I hope that
this story is bull**** - but questionning the companies about their
integrity and process is something that is not sacred. You would think that
the President of Upper Deck had an integrity - he would comment on the issue
as to whether it is true or not just like the other representatives did from
Fleer and the other company.

By the way, if you think all autographed cars are real also - you should do
some research. Some companies such as Upper Deck and Fleer have signed
affidavits and other legal documents saying that they have observed the
signing of the cards/items. Autopen machines have been used in the past by
other companies. Just because someone gives you a COA - you can't totally
believe them unless it is signed in front of you.

Did not mean to get you all worked up by asking questions and monitoring
activities of companies that sell this stuff is not somethign that is taboo.



"ImSoExcitedImSoExcitedImsoSCARED" wrote in
message ...
This "expose" is bull****, as most of Beckett.com's message board members

have
come to conclusion about.

Like the article admits, these are "event-worn" materials, not actual

game-worn
material.

Now if they wanted to get into an expose about how game worn jerseys are
store-bought, then we're talking.
-----------------
"It's no secret around Nashville that Kid Kash beats his women!" - Kid

Kash,
TNA, June 2003.




  #4  
Old July 17th 03, 02:14 AM
Ted Kupczyk
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

It should be noted, though, that Dave "Deacon" Jones used to be a writer /
contributor to Tuff Stuff magazine. He was dismissed after he wrote an
article about game used cards of his and he had no idea where they got his
uniform. He did not even own a uniform of his. His last article was about
a year and a half ago.

I have well over 100 game used and event used jersey cards - so I hope that
this story is bull**** - but questionning the companies about their
integrity and process is something that is not sacred. You would think that
the President of Upper Deck had an integrity - he would comment on the issue
as to whether it is true or not just like the other representatives did from
Fleer and the other company.

By the way, if you think all autographed cars are real also - you should do
some research. Some companies such as Upper Deck and Fleer have signed
affidavits and other legal documents saying that they have observed the
signing of the cards/items. Autopen machines have been used in the past by
other companies. Just because someone gives you a COA - you can't totally
believe them unless it is signed in front of you.

Did not mean to get you all worked up by asking questions and monitoring
activities of companies that sell this stuff is not somethign that is taboo.



"ImSoExcitedImSoExcitedImsoSCARED" wrote in
message ...
This "expose" is bull****, as most of Beckett.com's message board members

have
come to conclusion about.

Like the article admits, these are "event-worn" materials, not actual

game-worn
material.

Now if they wanted to get into an expose about how game worn jerseys are
store-bought, then we're talking.
-----------------
"It's no secret around Nashville that Kid Kash beats his women!" - Kid

Kash,
TNA, June 2003.




  #5  
Old July 18th 03, 03:49 AM
BlackJet76
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Some companies such as Upper Deck and Fleer have signed
affidavits and other legal documents saying that they have observed the
signing of the cards/items. Autopen machines have been used in the past by
other companies. Just because someone gives you a COA - you can't totally
believe them unless it is signed in front of you.
BRBR


Since you didn't mention Topps or Donruss does that mean they don't have
simliar affidavits? Also can you give a specific example of a card signed by an
autopen? How could you ever tell?
  #6  
Old July 18th 03, 09:01 AM
Ryan Cracknell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"BlackJet76" wrote in message
...
Some companies such as Upper Deck and Fleer have signed
affidavits and other legal documents saying that they have observed the
signing of the cards/items. Autopen machines have been used in the past

by
other companies. Just because someone gives you a COA - you can't totally
believe them unless it is signed in front of you.
BRBR


Since you didn't mention Topps or Donruss does that mean they don't have
simliar affidavits? Also can you give a specific example of a card signed

by an
autopen? How could you ever tell?


Rather than constantly asking everyone else for information that's readily
available, why not do a little research. The AutoPen info can be found on
UD's website. That's their baby.


  #7  
Old July 25th 03, 01:10 AM
jpeabody
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Ted Kupczyk" wrote in message news:[email protected]
From ESPN.com

http://msn.espn.go.com/sportsbusines...1/1579655.html

Nothing memorable about this special "event"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
By Darren Rovell
ESPN.com

LOS ANGELES -- Behind the end zone at the Los Angeles Coliseum, Terrell
Suggs stands in front of a table stacked with Baltimore Ravens jerseys. One
by one, he slips them over his head and shoulder pads, then quickly back off
again as if on a quest to find one that fits.

....

I saw this report on Outside the Lines last week and it was pretty
embarrassing all around. They were trying to make a big deal out of
event-used material, with some innuendoes about it not being
"legitimate" because it's only been worn for a minute. They had on
the guy that sued Topps because of 9 extra Jagr cards, and some other
collector. The whole thing was steered to question the practice of
wearing these items for a short time. But no one got into the
game-used thing, which is what I wanted to hear. They should have
gotten Richard McWilliams on there to explain how they call a
polyester jersey an "official game-used jersey" when worn by Joe
DiMaggio in an old-timers game, or the Reggie Jackson cork bat card.
Or where their Christy Mathewson jersey came from. But the premise,
that somehow there's something almost fraudulent about these
"event-worn" items when that's all they are ever claimed to be, but
without ever coming out and saying it, was very squirmy.

I should say, though, that even though they lay this at the card
companies doorstep, they were the originators of the idea. Gaylord
Perry used to sell his jerseys, and he realized that you can sell
twice as many if you change jerseys midway through a game. This just
takes it a step further.
  #8  
Old July 25th 03, 08:49 PM
Theres NoHope In Dope Johnny Dakota
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Subject: Game worn jersey (in seconds)
From: (jpeabody)
Date: 7/24/2003 8:10 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

"Ted Kupczyk" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
From ESPN.com

http://msn.espn.go.com/sportsbusines...1/1579655.html

Nothing memorable about this special "event"

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
By Darren Rovell
ESPN.com

LOS ANGELES -- Behind the end zone at the Los Angeles Coliseum, Terrell
Suggs stands in front of a table stacked with Baltimore Ravens jerseys. One
by one, he slips them over his head and shoulder pads, then quickly back

off
again as if on a quest to find one that fits.

...

I saw this report on Outside the Lines last week and it was pretty
embarrassing all around. They were trying to make a big deal out of
event-used material, with some innuendoes about it not being
"legitimate" because it's only been worn for a minute. They had on
the guy that sued Topps because of 9 extra Jagr cards, and some other
collector. The whole thing was steered to question the practice of
wearing these items for a short time. But no one got into the
game-used thing, which is what I wanted to hear. They should have
gotten Richard McWilliams on there to explain how they call a
polyester jersey an "official game-used jersey" when worn by Joe
DiMaggio in an old-timers game, or the Reggie Jackson cork bat card.
Or where their Christy Mathewson jersey came from.


Was there a controversy over the Mathewson jersey? Or are you just giving a
general example of a rare old jersey?
-----------------
"It's no secret around Nashville that Kid Kash beats his women!" - Kid Kash,
TNA, June 2003.


  #9  
Old July 28th 03, 12:01 AM
jpeabody
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I saw this report on Outside the Lines last week and it was pretty
embarrassing all around. They were trying to make a big deal out of
event-used material, with some innuendoes about it not being
"legitimate" because it's only been worn for a minute. They had on
the guy that sued Topps because of 9 extra Jagr cards, and some other
collector. The whole thing was steered to question the practice of
wearing these items for a short time. But no one got into the
game-used thing, which is what I wanted to hear. They should have
gotten Richard McWilliams on there to explain how they call a
polyester jersey an "official game-used jersey" when worn by Joe
DiMaggio in an old-timers game, or the Reggie Jackson cork bat card.
Or where their Christy Mathewson jersey came from.


Was there a controversy over the Mathewson jersey? Or are you just giving a
general example of a rare old jersey?


I have built a fairly nice collection of game-used cards of HOFers and
I'm beginning to have serious doubts about some of the things that are
being put out now. I would just like to know a little bit more about
these things that I'm tempted and encouraged to spend money on. The
question "how do you know for sure" about the legitimacy of these
cards is not one that I ever worried about very much, but the
casualness with which these things are presented is maybe just a
little too casual. Remember when UD first announced it was going to
slice up a Ruth bat? It got national media coverage with all kinds of
hobby and non-hobby personalities contributing to the debate. Even
though recent history shows which side won, UD orchestrated the PR,
stating the price and location where they bought the bat, and the
solid pedigree it carried. They also put forth their argument for
slicing it up versus giving it away in a raffle, or whatever the
alternatives were. A couple years later, Be A Player did much the
same thing with the Vezina goalie pads. A jersey from a player like
Christy Mathewson, who played pretty much entirely before WWI cannot
have very many game-used items out there. And yet these 63 (IIRC)
jersey cards were inserted into a niche product with no advance
notice, little hobby press, and no follow-up. I inquired to UD myself
about the provenance of the jersey and the customer service person
couldn't tell me anything. There are a lot of cards containing
jersey, glove and bat swatches from early players including first
tier, pre-WWI HOFers like Mathewson, Wagner, Cobb, Lajoie, Speaker and
Eddie Collins, not to mention the continuing abundance of Ruth stuff,
much of it released almost as a surprise to those who pull them. No
one knew they would have Cobb or Wagner cards in 2001 Legendary Cuts,
nor that there would be a Mathewson jersey card NY Legends. Why not?
Would advertising these things not generate more sales? And why only
63 Matty jerseys? They just cut off a sleeve or something? Or did
they not get a whole jersey? Where's the rest of it?

The average ESPN reader or viewer probably hadn't heard of game- or
event-used cards before that segment, and now probably has a very
colored view of that part of the hobby. This, I think, is especially
important as within the hobby there seems to be a growing questioning
of the legitimacy of this material. Now with Donruss about to cut up
1 of 3 known Ruth home jerseys, Sammy Sosa's corking, and the other
well-known "problem" cards that have surfaced, I would think a more
pro-active effort on the part of the card companies would help in
shoring up not only the value of these things, but the reputations of
the hobby in general.
 




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