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Question about London postmarks



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 5th 05, 04:47 AM
TC Blair
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Default Question about London postmarks

From: Marcel Lajus )
Subject: Question about London postmarks
This is the only article in this thread
View: Original Format
Newsgroups: rec.collecting.stamps.discuss
Date: 2005-01-04 13:25:57 PST


Hello,

I have a lot of old english stamps mainly from Victoria reign with
numeral cancellations. With my handbook "Collect british postmarks"
fifth edition I can identify most of the provincial marks and find
the place on a map.

But for London, different kinds of offices can be found : Inland
section (with a figure in a diamond), District post (with a
figure in a circle) and suburban offices. Some of them have the
district initials (EC, CX, W, WC, SW...) with a number and others
have the numbers inside a circle (like EC3).

First of all, does anybody knows the difference between these
sorts of offices? No explanation about them on my CBP.

Is there a chance to find the area and the street where these
postmarks were used? My main interest is to classify them
geographically. It's a way for me to travel with my stamps.

I'd like to find a book more comprehensive about these
cancellations. Is there any that you could advise me?

Thank you for your help

A+
Marcel

--
Invalid return address
To answer please use
m . lajus @ laposte . net (suppress the blanks)
=================================================


Salut Marcel:

Here is a list of the old London Postal Districts.
I hope this helps answer your question.

Blair

=================================================

London Postal Districts

East London
E1 Aldgate, Stepney, Mile End, Whitechapel
E2 Bethnal Green Shoreditch
E3 Bow Bromley-by-Bow, Old Ford
E4 Chingford Highams Park
E5 Clapton
E6 East Ham Beckton
E7 Forest Gate Upton Park
E8 Hackney Dalston
E9 Homerton South Hackney
E10 Leyton
E11 Leytonstone Wanstead
E12 Manor Park
E13 Plaistow
E14 Poplar Isle of Dogs, Millwall
E15 Stratford West Ham
E16 Victoria Docks Canning Town, North Woolwich
E17 Walthamstow
E18 Woodford only South Woodford is in E18
most of Woodford itself is in IG8
E98 includes The Times newspaper in Wapping

East Central London - the City
EC1 North West: Clerkenwell, Finsbury, Barbican
EC2 North East: Moorgate, Liverpool Street
EC3 South East: Monument, Aldgate, Fenchurch St, Tower Hill
EC4 South West: Fleet Street, Temple, Blackfriars, St Paul's

North London
N1 Islington, Barnsbury, Canonbury
N2 East Finchley eastern part of Hampstead Garden Suburb
N3 Finchley Central Finchley Church End
N4 Finsbury Park Manor House
N5 Highbury
N6 Highgate
N7 Holloway Lower Holloway see also N19
N8 Hornsey Crouch End
N9 Lower Edmonton
N10 Muswell Hill
N11 New Southgate Friern Barnet
N12 North Finchley Woodside Park
N13 Palmers Green
N14 Southgate
N15 South Tottenham Seven Sisters
N16 Stoke Newington Stamford Hill
N17 Tottenham
N18 Upper Edmonton
N19 Upper Holloway Archway, Tufnell Park
N20 Whetstone Totteridge
N21 Winchmore Hill
N22 Wood Green Alexandra Palace

North West London
NW1 Camden Town, Regent's Park, north Marylebone
NW2 Cricklewood Dollis Hill, Neasden
NW3 Hampstead Belsize Park, Swiss Cottage
NW4 Hendon Brent Cross
NW5 Kentish Town
NW6 Kilburn Queens Park, South & West Hampstead, Brondesbury Park
NW7 Mill Hill
NW8 St John's Wood
NW9 West Hendon The Hyde, Kingsbury, Colindale
NW10 Willesden Harlesden, Kensal Green
NW11 Golders Green western part of Hampstead Garden Suburb

South East London
SE1 Waterloo, Bermondsey, South Bank, The Borough, north Lambeth
SE2 Abbey Wood Thamesmead South
SE3 Blackheath Kidbrooke, Westcombe Park
SE4 Brockley Crofton Park, Honor Oak Park
SE5 Camberwell
SE6 Catford Bellingham, Hither Green
SE7 Charlton
SE8 Deptford
SE9 Eltham Mottingham
SE10 Greenwich
SE11 Kennington Lambeth
SE12 Lee Grove Park
SE13 Lewisham Hither Green
SE14 New Cross New Cross Gate
SE15 Peckham Nunhead
SE16 Rotherhithe South Bermonsey, Surrey Docks
SE17 Walworth Elephant & Castle
SE18 Woolwich Plumstead
SE19 Upper Norwood Crystal Palace, Norwood New Town
SE20 Anerley Penge
SE21 Dulwich West Dulwich
SE22 East Dulwich
SE23 Forest Hill
SE24 Herne Hill
SE25 South Norwood
SE26 Sydenham
SE27 West Norwood Tulse Hill
SE28 Thamesmead small parts of Thamesmead are in DA18 and SE2

South West London
SW1 Westminster, Belgravia, Pimlico, Victoria
SW2 Brixton central and southern Brixton, Streatham Hill
SW3 Chelsea Brompton
SW4 Clapham
SW5 Earl's Court
SW6 Fulham Parson's Green
SW7 Knightsbridge South Kensington
SW8 Nine Elms South Lambeth, Vauxhall
SW9 Stockwell northern Brixton
SW10 West Brompton World's End, (Brompton is covered by SW7, SW3 and SW1)
SW11 Battersea Clapham Junction
SW12 Balham
SW13 Barnes Castelnau
SW14 Mortlake East Sheen
SW15 Putney Roehampton
SW16 Streatham Norbury
SW17 Tooting
SW18 Wandsworth Earlsfield
SW19 Wimbledon Merton, Collier's Wood
SW20 West Wimbledon Raynes Park, Cottenham Park, South Wimbledon

West London
W1 the West End: Mayfair, Soho, south Marylebone
W2 Paddington, Bayswater, Hyde Park
W3 Acton
W4 Chiswick
W5 Ealing
W6 Hammersmith
W7 Hanwell
W8 Kensington central Kensington
W9 Maida Vale Warwick Avenue, Maida Hill
W10 North Kensington Ladbroke Grove
W11 Notting Hill Holland Park
W12 Shepherd's Bush
W13 West Ealing
W14 West Kensington

West Central London
WC1 Bloomsbury, Gray's Inn
WC2 Holborn, Strand, Covent Garden

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ads
  #2  
Old January 5th 05, 09:30 PM
Marcel Lajus
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"TC Blair" a écrit dans le message de
om...

Salut Marcel:

Here is a list of the old London Postal Districts.
I hope this helps answer your question.

Blair


Thank you very much Blair.
Great!

So I must conclude that the numbers I've got that are not in your list, are
from the suburban offices.
For example, I've got more than 4 numbers for East Central London. According
to my stock, it goes to at least 78.

A+
Marcel


  #3  
Old January 6th 05, 03:06 AM
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So I must conclude that the numbers I've got that are not in your
list, are
from the suburban offices.


Blair's list includes all the surburban offices. At a quick glance, and
as one who lives in one of the outermost London suburban postal areas,
I think it goes to the present day.

For example, I've got more than 4 numbers for East Central London.

According
to my stock, it goes to at least 78.


According to http://homepages.gold.ac.uk/genuki/L...ldistricts.htm
the number suffixes did not come in until 1917, so they must mean
something else on your Victorian postmarks, but I can't tell you what.
A Google on "london postmarks" comes up with a number of sites, some
with book recommendations, including "The Postal Cancellations of
London 1840-1890 by HC Westley" which sounds like what you need, but
I've never seen a copy.

Chris

  #4  
Old January 6th 05, 04:34 AM
Jay T. Carrigan
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Posts: n/a
Default

The two references I have a

1. "British Post Office Numbers 1844-1906" by G. Brumell.
I've seen this on Ebay with prices ranging from $21 TO $43.
The copy in Koerber's 1985 Turner sale went for $110.

2. "British Postmarks, A Short History and Guide" by R.C. Alcock
and F.C. Holland. Ebay price range $21.50 to $27.

The following quotes are from Brumell:

"LONDON INLAND OFFICE

This was the office which dealt with all correspondence posted
in London or passing through London from other places for trans-
mission to the provinces. All the stamps in this group were
used in this office and the numbers in them merely distinguish
the different stamps in use. The special feature of this group
is a diamond containing the number: ..."

"LONDON DISTRICT (FIRST SERIES)

The London District Post, formerly known as the Penny Post and
from 1801 as the Twopenny Post, was the department of the Post
Office that controlled the circulation of letters in London
locally. ..."

Brumell contains several lists of these numerals, but in quite
a few cases proper identification depends on the date. Numbers
1-41 were sent to country sorting offices and are hard to find.
42-49 were sent to important town offices and probably used only
for local mail. These are even scarcer. 50-72 were used at the
chief office (extended to 79 in 1851).

"LONDON DISTRICT (SECOND SERIES)

.... made its appearance after the division of the London District
into 10 Districts in 1856, and for some time its use was confined
to the Head Offices of the new Districts.
....
.... called respectively the North-west, North, North-east, West,
West Central, East Central, East, South-west, South and South-
east."

The South office was abolished in 1868, the North-east in 1869.
The former Chief District Office became the East Central Head
District Office, and continued to used the old handstamps for
some time after the reorganization, even adding to the series
(80-100).

This subject is quite a bit more complicated than this brief
summary indicates.

Brumell is the one book to buy if you want to identify your
London District postmarks. However, Alcock & Holland has a lot
of background information and it's usually the first think I
look at for questions about British post marks.

There is one other book (64 page pamphlet, actually) that is
useful for British area numeral cancels, but it doesn't include
the London postmarks:

3. "The Numeral Cancellations of The British Empire" by H.H.
Heins. Ebay price range $21.50 to $30.

Jay Carrigan change domain to mchsi
www.jaypex.com


In article ,
says...

From: Marcel Lajus )
Subject: Question about London postmarks
This is the only article in this thread
View: Original Format
Newsgroups: rec.collecting.stamps.discuss
Date: 2005-01-04 13:25:57 PST


Hello,

I have a lot of old english stamps mainly from Victoria reign with
numeral cancellations. With my handbook "Collect british postmarks"
fifth edition I can identify most of the provincial marks and find
the place on a map.

But for London, different kinds of offices can be found : Inland
section (with a figure in a diamond), District post (with a
figure in a circle) and suburban offices. Some of them have the
district initials (EC, CX, W, WC, SW...) with a number and others
have the numbers inside a circle (like EC3).

First of all, does anybody knows the difference between these
sorts of offices? No explanation about them on my CBP.

Is there a chance to find the area and the street where these
postmarks were used? My main interest is to classify them
geographically. It's a way for me to travel with my stamps.

I'd like to find a book more comprehensive about these
cancellations. Is there any that you could advise me?

Thank you for your help

A+
Marcel

--
Invalid return address
To answer please use
m . lajus @ laposte . net (suppress the blanks)
=============================================== ==


Salut Marcel:

Here is a list of the old London Postal Districts.
I hope this helps answer your question.

Blair

=============================================== ==

London Postal Districts

East London
E1 Aldgate, Stepney, Mile End, Whitechapel
E2 Bethnal Green Shoreditch
E3 Bow Bromley-by-Bow, Old Ford
E4 Chingford Highams Park
E5 Clapton
E6 East Ham Beckton
E7 Forest Gate Upton Park
E8 Hackney Dalston
E9 Homerton South Hackney
E10 Leyton
E11 Leytonstone Wanstead
E12 Manor Park
E13 Plaistow
E14 Poplar Isle of Dogs, Millwall
E15 Stratford West Ham
E16 Victoria Docks Canning Town, North Woolwich
E17 Walthamstow
E18 Woodford only South Woodford is in E18
most of Woodford itself is in IG8
E98 includes The Times newspaper in Wapping

East Central London - the City
EC1 North West: Clerkenwell, Finsbury, Barbican
EC2 North East: Moorgate, Liverpool Street
EC3 South East: Monument, Aldgate, Fenchurch St, Tower Hill
EC4 South West: Fleet Street, Temple, Blackfriars, St Paul's

North London
N1 Islington, Barnsbury, Canonbury
N2 East Finchley eastern part of Hampstead Garden Suburb
N3 Finchley Central Finchley Church End
N4 Finsbury Park Manor House
N5 Highbury
N6 Highgate
N7 Holloway Lower Holloway see also N19
N8 Hornsey Crouch End
N9 Lower Edmonton
N10 Muswell Hill
N11 New Southgate Friern Barnet
N12 North Finchley Woodside Park
N13 Palmers Green
N14 Southgate
N15 South Tottenham Seven Sisters
N16 Stoke Newington Stamford Hill
N17 Tottenham
N18 Upper Edmonton
N19 Upper Holloway Archway, Tufnell Park
N20 Whetstone Totteridge
N21 Winchmore Hill
N22 Wood Green Alexandra Palace

North West London
NW1 Camden Town, Regent's Park, north Marylebone
NW2 Cricklewood Dollis Hill, Neasden
NW3 Hampstead Belsize Park, Swiss Cottage
NW4 Hendon Brent Cross
NW5 Kentish Town
NW6 Kilburn Queens Park, South & West Hampstead, Brondesbury Park
NW7 Mill Hill
NW8 St John's Wood
NW9 West Hendon The Hyde, Kingsbury, Colindale
NW10 Willesden Harlesden, Kensal Green
NW11 Golders Green western part of Hampstead Garden Suburb

South East London
SE1 Waterloo, Bermondsey, South Bank, The Borough, north Lambeth
SE2 Abbey Wood Thamesmead South
SE3 Blackheath Kidbrooke, Westcombe Park
SE4 Brockley Crofton Park, Honor Oak Park
SE5 Camberwell
SE6 Catford Bellingham, Hither Green
SE7 Charlton
SE8 Deptford
SE9 Eltham Mottingham
SE10 Greenwich
SE11 Kennington Lambeth
SE12 Lee Grove Park
SE13 Lewisham Hither Green
SE14 New Cross New Cross Gate
SE15 Peckham Nunhead
SE16 Rotherhithe South Bermonsey, Surrey Docks
SE17 Walworth Elephant & Castle
SE18 Woolwich Plumstead
SE19 Upper Norwood Crystal Palace, Norwood New Town
SE20 Anerley Penge
SE21 Dulwich West Dulwich
SE22 East Dulwich
SE23 Forest Hill
SE24 Herne Hill
SE25 South Norwood
SE26 Sydenham
SE27 West Norwood Tulse Hill
SE28 Thamesmead small parts of Thamesmead are in DA18 and SE2

South West London
SW1 Westminster, Belgravia, Pimlico, Victoria
SW2 Brixton central and southern Brixton, Streatham Hill
SW3 Chelsea Brompton
SW4 Clapham
SW5 Earl's Court
SW6 Fulham Parson's Green
SW7 Knightsbridge South Kensington
SW8 Nine Elms South Lambeth, Vauxhall
SW9 Stockwell northern Brixton
SW10 West Brompton World's End, (Brompton is covered by SW7, SW3 and SW1)
SW11 Battersea Clapham Junction
SW12 Balham
SW13 Barnes Castelnau
SW14 Mortlake East Sheen
SW15 Putney Roehampton
SW16 Streatham Norbury
SW17 Tooting
SW18 Wandsworth Earlsfield
SW19 Wimbledon Merton, Collier's Wood
SW20 West Wimbledon Raynes Park, Cottenham Park, South Wimbledon

West London
W1 the West End: Mayfair, Soho, south Marylebone
W2 Paddington, Bayswater, Hyde Park
W3 Acton
W4 Chiswick
W5 Ealing
W6 Hammersmith
W7 Hanwell
W8 Kensington central Kensington
W9 Maida Vale Warwick Avenue, Maida Hill
W10 North Kensington Ladbroke Grove
W11 Notting Hill Holland Park
W12 Shepherd's Bush
W13 West Ealing
W14 West Kensington

West Central London
WC1 Bloomsbury, Gray's Inn
WC2 Holborn, Strand, Covent Garden

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


  #5  
Old January 6th 05, 11:55 PM
TC
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 21:30:27 +0100, "Marcel Lajus"
wrote:

"TC Blair" a écrit dans le message de
. com...

Salut Marcel:

Here is a list of the old London Postal Districts.
I hope this helps answer your question.

Blair


Thank you very much Blair.
Great!

So I must conclude that the numbers I've got that are not in your list, are
from the suburban offices.
For example, I've got more than 4 numbers for East Central London. According
to my stock, it goes to at least 78.

A+
Marcel


================================================== ======

Marcel:

I agree that they were probably sub post offices.
The list should give you a basic start, though.

Blair

  #6  
Old January 7th 05, 07:33 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Note that the area numbers W8 etc refer to the postal addresses - an
early delivery code or ZIP code system. It does not necessarily only
refer to post offices, although obviously all post offices are located
within these areas.Every premises postal address includes this code (
now including a supplement in the new nationwide postcode system. For
instance Baden-Powell House, The Scout HQ in London is SW7 5JS). There
may be several different post offices and/or sub offices within each
postal area including railway station post offices and the Stock
Exchange etc. I do not know whether these smaller offices had their own
postmarks, but certainly in the remainder of the UK almost all post
offices however small at one time franked their own mail. Certainly the
Stock Exchange had its own franking device( see literature connected to
the 1 shilling green Stock Exchange forgery).
These days most mail is franked with some generic postmark, for example
SWDO ( South West District Office) as part of the increasingly
centralised mail sorting methods.
Regards
Malcolm

  #7  
Old January 7th 05, 09:07 PM
Marcel Lajus
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Posts: n/a
Default

Thank you Blair and Jay for all this information.
I'm going now to look for the books you advised me and try to understand how
it is going.

A+
Marcel

--
Invalid return address
To private answer please use
m . lajus @ laposte . net (suppress the blanks)


  #8  
Old October 19th 10, 08:05 AM
lasner12 lasner12 is offline
Junior Member
 
First recorded activity by CollectingBanter: Oct 2010
Posts: 1
Default

A postmark is a postal marking made on a letter, package, postcard or the like indicating the date and time that the item was delivered into the care of the postal service. Modern postmarks are often applied simultaneously with the cancellation or killer that marks the postage stamp(s) as having been used (though in some circumstances there may be a postmark without a killer, and sometimes the postmark and killer form a continuous design), and the two terms are often used interchangeably, if incorrectly. Postmarks may be applied by hand or by machines, using methods such as rollers or inkjets, while digital postmarks are a recent innovation. The local post Hawai'i Post had a rubber-stamp postmark parts of which were hand-painted.[1] At Hideaway Island, Vanuatu, the Underwater Post Office has an embossed postmark.[2]
 




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