great bill murray story from the other nigh

"barefoot" wrote in message
oups.com...
dude...alfie's of hollywood is a KNOWN forger...it's not even alfie
anymore...i think he died YEARS ago.


Did you just say that Alfie Pettit is dead and was a known forger?

It's rare in person sigs will ever match ttm ones even if the person
is signing his own mail. I've done a study on this a long time ago on
my site of my own signature and how it changes time to time depending
on circumstance.

If you are sitting at a desk or table, wearing your reading glasses,
with a nice glass of wine listening to Taichovsky or whatever you will
tend to write slower and neater. If you are in public, you are
standing up, usually signing while someone is holding something...the
photo bends, the wind kicks up, someone moves, you are signing while
looking around at others or talking... youi are rushed; or someone
jabs you with other posters or what have you. What I am saying is
Barefoot has no right here comparing in person sigs with ttm ones
because the factors vary. And unless you can prove the ttm ones ARE
secretarial, nobody has the right to say otherwise. Case closed.
Let's hope this debate can move on.

I think you can use ttm ones only for some examples; but in persons to
home signings are apples and oranges too....

On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 16:21:50 -0700, "Tim Adams"
wrote:

the autographs look NOTHING like the ones i've
gotten in person
"barefoot" wrote in message

Don't know what you're smoking but it must be some bad ****. Either that or
she's scribbling a dud for you?
If you go to Star Archive and compare TTMs to in-person on playbills and
dealer like Alfies of Hollywood, you'll see that they all match up.

Great point!

On 23 Apr 2006 14:44:47 -0700, "UnionBoi"
wrote:


I received a letter from Elizabeth Taylor's secretary (Sharon Leigh)
with my autographed picture. If the secretary was doing Elizabeth's
signature why would she write a letter as herself? why not just sign
it as Elizabeth?

I got a letter from a couple secretaries too; I remember one off hand
which was Wilford Brimley's... she said "Mr. Brimley always has time
to sign for a fan".

On 23 Apr 2006 14:44:47 -0700, "UnionBoi"
wrote:

I am surprised we are still talking about this. Why was the new group
started except to get away from these lose/lose conversations.
barefoot is never going to change his mind. The people who collect TTM
are never going to change their minds - why continue to talk about it
(but since we are ... I'm adding some of my own thoughts).

The Autograph Collector magazine in 1986 is where I read that Lauren
Bacall signed her mail. I guess I believe them (same with Marlena
Dietrich).

I received a letter from Elizabeth Taylor's secretary (Sharon Leigh)
with my autographed picture. If the secretary was doing Elizabeth's
signature why would she write a letter as herself? why not just sign
it as Elizabeth?

I got a letter from Donny Osmond's secretary (Nori Weech) who wrote
"Sincere letters such as yours are very rare. I am Donny's personal
assistant and would be glad to forward your program for him to
autograph. Please send a SASE as you stated and expect it to take
anywhere from 2 weeks to 2 months. The backlog is terrible! (sorry)"
Again, if she was autographing his stuff why didn't she just write
"Steve - send it to me I'd be happy to sign. Donny"?

I received a letter from Greer Garson's secretary (Sandi Fadeley)
stating that Greer enjoyed reading the letters that came with the
photos.

I've received some letters from Buddy Ebsen and some from his secretary
(Gloria Buckles) and one from his wife explaining that his secretary
had died last year (I had sent two books and she was explaining why it
was taking awhile to find the books to mail back. I eventually got one
back but lost the other that was also signed by Jack Haley. Buddy
bought me a new book and sent it with his signature). Again, why not
just sign them Buddy unless Buddy signed his own mail.

Ray Bolger's wife sent me a letter stating that Ray had died before he
was able to sign the pictures I had sent (thankfully I had gotten a few
earlier). Since the pictures were mailed quite awhile before he died
why wouldn't they just have signed them and said they were signed
before he passed on?

Theresa Graves (Get Christie Love) sent me a letter 2 or 3 years after
I wrote her telling me about the joys of being a Jehova's Witness. I
doubt it would have taken that long if she isn't signing her mail.

That is just a few I can think of off the top of my head.

I can agree with Barefoot (can't believe I'm writing this) that many of
the A-List celebs read all their mail and sign it (I've already stated
that I talked to Liza's secretary and she said Liza had someone read it
and remove any negative/nasty letters and then send the others to Liza
which she replied to). I don't doubt that Orlando Bloom or Tom Cruise
or Streisand or most people of that caliber would be next to impossible
to get TTM as they probably are receiving bags of mail everyday. They
can't possibly be expected to sign/read them all - no matter how much
they might want to. I remember reading that Michael J. Fox's family,
when he was Alex Keaten, signed his pictures in the garage because that
was the only place that could hold all the bags of mail that was coming
in.

However, I can't imagine using many of the IPs to "verify" the
authenticity of the TTM signatures. During the last Oscars (or GGs -
not sure which one - one of the last award shows) being able to watch
some of the stars (Heath Ledger I believe was one) signing the many
pictures put in their face by one person and signing them while
watching what was going on around him. He wasn't concentrating on the
signing at all. That is going to look a lot different from one he
signs while sitting down and taking his time with nothing to distract
him (if he doesn't sign TTM then while signing a contract or at a
autograph convention). They are going to look different. It's just
the plain truth. Same as the person who gets the first signature from
a celeb at a convention and the last person to get a signature that
day. I'm thinking they are probably very different after hours of
signing the name.

BF - again I don't see that many people agreeing with you (my agreement
is a very small part of what you have said). You have done this before
where you have said more and more people are agreeing with you and it's
not apparent in the group (maybe you are getting personal emails I
don't know - but most people here think you are full of who knows what.

"if we didn't see it signed, we
can't be sure if it's real"

I agree with this for TTM and for IPs as I personally would not buy
from barefoot as I've seen him lie too many times in this group.
Perhaps everything he has is real, I don't know. But, based on
reputation (and this group is the only knowledge I have of him), I
wouldn't believe anything. I'd rather have my TTM then one that he
says he got IP.

Another great point. With a dealer, you're taking MORE of a chance in
my opinion of a fake, as 90% of Ebay stuff is obviously fake. We even
spot dead people's names on newly made items etc. It's so easy to
prove. While at least with a possible secretarial, at least you can
if you want, save the envelopes to prove you wrote.

A roadshow episode recently talked about a ball with Yankee's sigs on
it. The lady who appraises those talked about "clubhouse" signature
balls where there's a certain player or two (Babe Ruth?) who used kids
to sign for them (after they learned how to sign his name properly).
Those balls had less value than ones authentically signed with
provenance, but still had value none-the-less.

What I am saying here is we as fans took time to write and got
something back; that's a historical record of interaction at some
level verses a forged dealer sig with no provenance. Some historical
value COULD be placed on ours in the future like the Babe Ruth sig
(it'd have to be a high level secretarial I'd imagine like Harrison
Ford or George Lucas) but a forged dealer sig is a LOT worse....not
even fit to line a bird cage.

On 23 Apr 2006 14:44:47 -0700, "UnionBoi"
wrote:

But, based on
reputation (and this group is the only knowledge I have of him), I
wouldn't believe anything. I'd rather have my TTM then one that he
says he got IP.

you do realize that this is all because i said that 98% of ttms are
secretarial...that i said, that most people write to those a list
celebrities...i also said that really, only people in this group have
any idea what they are doing..but i guess that feell on deaf ears and
people only want to see the part where i say 98% of ttms are not real.

So if I understand this post she admits to stealing money ,that sound
like theft to me,if they do not want to sign just send everything back
in the SASE that was provided to them for that very purpose.Just my 2
cents worth



Sue H wrote:
I agree and to do so starts a very bad trend. And if you read my post
before about Bronagh Gallagher, she admitted people sent money and
other things to her and she kept it without signing. Not worth doing
that. It doesn't help.

On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 23:40:34 -0500, "Gummby3"
wrote:

As I said, if they are sending money in hopes of bribing
the celeb to sign for them, then that's just stupid.

If you base it on non-collectors, just a kid who once writes to a pop
idol like Michael Jackson or something, you could be right. But most
people are a lot saavier these days.

On 23 Apr 2006 21:37:02 -0700, "barefoot"
wrote:

you do realize that this is all because i said that 98% of ttms are
secretarial...that i said, that most people write to those a list
celebrities...i also said that really, only people in this group have
any idea what they are doing..but i guess that feell on deaf ears and
people only want to see the part where i say 98% of ttms are not real.

And to think she said that to a journalist... and it was on streaming
video on the net. Someone sent it to me a very long time ago. If you
find it, it's in heavy accent (Irish) but it's an interesting
interview.

On 24 Apr 2006 04:27:23 -0700, "casdon" wrote:

So if I understand this post she admits to stealing money ,that sound
like theft to me,if they do not want to sign just send everything back
in the SASE that was provided to them for that very purpose.Just my 2
cents worth



Sue H wrote:
I agree and to do so starts a very bad trend. And if you read my post
before about Bronagh Gallagher, she admitted people sent money and
other things to her and she kept it without signing. Not worth doing
that. It doesn't help.

On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 23:40:34 -0500, "Gummby3"
wrote:

As I said, if they are sending money in hopes of bribing
the celeb to sign for them, then that's just stupid.