another successful 8-track Thursday at WQMA 1520 AM !

DeserTBoB wrote:

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 17:04:26 -0400, 8 tracker from hell
wrote:

now, it appears that there are a few stations (including WQMA) that
recently got into webcasting using non-conventional ways of streaming & in
all cases, work on only one platform, (microsoft windows). snip

Gee...I wonder who planned that? I smell something foul...like Billy
Gates!


exactly, billy thinks that the internet should revolve around microsoft.
remember, microsoft was convicted & found guilty of abusing their monopoly
& the court was going to ream microsoft a good one, however, that assclown
george bush got elected & ordered the court to silently let the microsoft
case die.
this is all documented.


the streaming P-2-P service that your station uses sucks because of what
was mentioned above. also, it sucks because it requires running a server
on the client side. there are quite a few service providers who will get
really anal about the extra bandwidth being used. snip

Mine goes ballistic about these things.


believe it or not, some isp's meter their bandwidth & charge accordingly for
it.

i have already tried to install Streamer in WINE. allthough the gui
appears to work, it cannot connect because the API for it's networking
does not work in WINE. snip

"Streamer" was created to sell more WinBlowz crap, not to be a
universal netcasting app.


streamer is a application that uses the peer to peer networking protocol
along with its stream. in other words, it installs a server on your box &
the server uploads the stream to other streamer users. it uses the same
principal as the filesharing networks use. that way, the source (WQMA) does
not use as much bandwidth as they would use by normal streaming methods.
the problem is that when streamer is running, it is uploading at the same
bitrate as it is downloading. that can be detrimental to the quality of the
webcast & can cause buffering problems as well.

please ask your station manager to consider opening a raw mp4 stream or
providing a alternate stream through shoutcast. snip

mp4 would be much better and offer good connectivity. Streamer blows.

dB
yes, indeed, linux has support for mp4 as well.
--
i have an 8 track mind

My other computer is your XP box.

DeserTBoB wrote:



Not really. I used to DX AM radio all the time, and sure, fades and
phase cancellation was part of that. But local market stations? No
way. If there was a 500 watter not too far from me I wanted to pull
in, just add more antenna! FM, once the FCC moved it up to 100
MHz after WWII, broadcast FM was dead for distant reception. Back
when it was down around 35 MHz, FM DXing was all the rage, but the big
AM networks, through political pressure, made the FCC force the new FM
stations up into the new 100 MHz band to eliminate competition.

yes, the armstrong system. 35 to 46 mhz. it died in the early fifties, along
with robert armstrong (remember the yankee network). all because of david
sarnoff's (RCA) greed. i had a couple of FM receivers that covered that
band. one was a meisner FM tuner & the other was a zenith tabletop radio.
i used to like to DX am with a good 6 tube superhet but quit after
queerchannel ruined it.


Your programming, I think, is the future of AM. Right wing talk radio
is dying, over 50% drop in ratings in the last Arbitron period
nationwide, so these properties will need to be entertaining again to
draw an audience. The program mix you have looks great!



"Personality" radio died when the mega corporations started taking
over all broadcast properties in the US. "Personality" radio is what
kept AM great for all those years, and even the AOR FMs had their own
personalities. When Infinity and Clear Channel gobbled up the US
radio industry with a weak-kneed FCC commissioner helping them, a lot
of that completely died. It's good to see it's coming back again.

dB
it is refreshing to see a well informed person in this group. one who
doesn't buy the **** our politicians & controlled media tries to feed us.

bob, here is a site i highly recommend that you should listen to.

http://www.rbnlive.com/archiveindex.html
scroll on down to national intel report. it is good.
--
i have an 8 track mind

My other computer is your XP box.

yeh, it sounds like the complainer, whoever he is- is on a POS dial up
or webTV server-

a thing of the past

internet traffic today REQUIRES a cable or DSL hookup, in even a
moderately populated area. Once everyone logs on to a dial up server,
it becomes virtually unuseable- an email only service- browsing becomes
impossible

that's why the complainer pushes the old Usenet interface- he can't
browse the WWW/http net pages effectively- they won't download

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 16:11:42 -0700, DeserTBoB
wrote:

mp4 would be much better and offer good connectivity. Streamer blows.

I don't think Streamer blows. I do think other methods are easier when
it comes to initial setup. Problem is: who pays for those other kinds
of streaming?

Streamer uses the bandwidth of the listeners (whom don't pay anyway,
and the majority don't really want to) to relay the stream to more
listeners. We do like the idea of opening up our online streaming to
other platforms, but the listeners would have to pay our expenses.
We've maxed out our online streaming budget already (DSL/phone
expenses here are $150/month for commercial use). There are additional
expenses involved for every single listener that would listen via
other methods like Windows Media, RealPlayer, or
Shoutcast/mp3/OGG/etc.

Streamer doesn't charge for each additional listener. We can have an
unlimited number of listeners now.

One idea we've had is offering a subscription based feed for those who
want to listen via other methods. We can't really think of a way to
make an advertiser supported model work with other cost-based
streaming platforms.

Jason

I'm having great luck with the streamer download program I got from
your site for free- so far only a few dropouts and that happened only
on the monaural link, the stereo link was rock solid stable. It
downloaded and works with minimal effort- just a few mouse clicks and
it's self explanatory. Highly recommend all you 8-track fans out there
try it. It's awesome to be able to listen to a station in Mississippi,
when I live in the northeast USA. What a blast ! Keep up the great
work Jason- hopefully the 8-track Thursday will last a while so we can
enjoy it some more. I look forward to tuning in every Thursday.

For those of you who want to tune in here's the link again- try it out
!

http://www.q1520radio.com/listen.html

scroll down the page about half way

click on "first time dial up stream"

download the streamer program

when the channel list comes up, you can double click on WQMA oldies and
wait a few moments, it will connect you

if the stereo link doesn't connect, try the mono link, and vice versa.
One of them will work- and both sound very good actually.

with MP3 players being installed in cars and homes now- how bad can MP3
radio streaming be ? trust me people, it sounds as good as any radio
you've heard

Jason K wrote:

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 16:11:42 -0700, DeserTBoB
wrote:

mp4 would be much better and offer good connectivity. Streamer blows.

I don't think Streamer blows. I do think other methods are easier when
it comes to initial setup. Problem is: who pays for those other kinds
of streaming?

i understand the delema, however, there are other viable options out there
that work better without the cost.

Streamer uses the bandwidth of the listeners (whom don't pay anyway,
and the majority don't really want to) to relay the stream to more
listeners. We do like the idea of opening up our online streaming to
other platforms, but the listeners would have to pay our expenses.
We've maxed out our online streaming budget already (DSL/phone
expenses here are $150/month for commercial use). There are additional
expenses involved for every single listener that would listen via
other methods like Windows Media, RealPlayer, or
Shoutcast/mp3/OGG/etc.

again, i know & understand where your coming from but there still are better
options. streamer has just got too many things against it, especially, if
your wanting to webcast to a wide audiance.

1. it is not cross platform.
2. it is considered a server, which has implications.
3. it is useless for dialup just because of the bi-directional traffic.
4. it is against the TOS of most broadband isp's, especially cable.


Streamer doesn't charge for each additional listener.

of coarse, they cant. they are not providing the bandwidth. they are just
supplying the software.

We can have an unlimited number of listeners now.

how do you know exactly how many are listening right now?
does the streamer client report all of the connections to it?


One idea we've had is offering a subscription based feed for those who
want to listen via other methods. We can't really think of a way to
make an advertiser supported model work with other cost-based
streaming platforms.

Jason

well jason
here's somthing that can work for your station as well as expand your
audiance as well.
http://www.live365.com/pro/radio.html
not only will it fit your needs perfectly, it will keep statistics of the
listeners & provide your station with detailed reports.
they also provide the proper licensing BMI, ASCAP, etc.
they even can replace the commercials with internet commercials & pay you
for that. they can even provide subscription level service.
--
i have an 8 track mind

My other computer is your XP box.

On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 17:12:15 -0400, 8 tracker from hell
wrote:

again, i know & understand where your coming from but there still are better
options. streamer has just got too many things against it, especially, if
your wanting to webcast to a wide audiance.

1. it is not cross platform.
2. it is considered a server, which has implications.
3. it is useless for dialup just because of the bi-directional traffic.
4. it is against the TOS of most broadband isp's, especially cable. snip

For example, Adelphia makes use of P2P servers on residential cable
TDMA a TOSsable offense...they catch you, your cable TDMA is gone.
They can't eliminate your cable TV feed, whether analog or digital,
because most municipalities in which they operate have ordinances
which forbid forfeiture of service for TOS problems with a non-video
service.

We can have an unlimited number of listeners now.

how do you know exactly how many are listening right now?
does the streamer client report all of the connections to it? snip

Nope, and thus, you have no way to know what audience is being
reached. Other methods at least allow some accountability, but with
P2P, there's no conceivable way to know total audience numbers, and
it's not worth people losing their cable TDMA over something like
this.

dB

DeserTBoB wrote:


For example, Adelphia makes use of P2P servers on residential cable
TDMA a TOSsable offense...they catch you, your cable TDMA is gone.
They can't eliminate your cable TV feed, whether analog or digital,
because most municipalities in which they operate have ordinances
which forbid forfeiture of service for TOS problems with a non-video
service.


in addition to what you said, lately, cable & residential dsl operators like
roadrunner, SBC, charter, cox, & verizon have been proactivaly been
monitoring their networks for these type of servers as well as open proxy
servers. because the influx of the millions of comprimised windows PCs that
were turned in to spam zombies on their network, increasing their bandwidth
usage, cutting into their profits, & ending up getting their mail servers
listed in the DNSBL's, they are really getting serious about TOS violators.

We can have an unlimited number of listeners now.

how do you know exactly how many are listening right now?
does the streamer client report all of the connections to it? snip

Nope, and thus, you have no way to know what audience is being
reached. Other methods at least allow some accountability, but with
P2P, there's no conceivable way to know total audience numbers, and
it's not worth people losing their cable TDMA over something like
this.

dB

--
i have an 8 track mind

My other computer is your XP box.

On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 14:38:23 -0700, DeserTBoB
wrote:

Nope, and thus, you have no way to know what audience is being
reached. Other methods at least allow some accountability, but with
P2P, there's no conceivable way to know total audience numbers, and
it's not worth people losing their cable TDMA over something like
this.

Hi,

I have used the service with many different companies at this point
(Cable One, BellSouth, Charter Cable, SBC Yahoo!) and have never had
any of them complain about it's usage. I've used it extensively with
the first two. A lot of companies cover their butts with those
extensive legal pages that most subscribers don't read. Many were
constructed years ago when bandwidth was more of an issue.

And the service does let us know exactly how many are listening. They
display some public statistics too for each station at their site (the
two numbers vary a little bit, but are usually similar).

Some Streamer stations have gotten as high as 150 concurrent
listeners. Our station has never had that many, but we're usually in
the top 5 Streamer stations.

Thanks for your input, however. We don't intend to abandon Streamer,
but will continue to look for some kind of cost-effective solution to
complement it. I personally don't like one of the solutions mentioned
here already: Live 365. I find their interface/registration annoying
when I've listened to their stations in the past. I guess everyone has
their own preferences, and that's why choice is good.

Jason

The Streamer for WQMA now is great- easy log on and very high quality-
I really don't see what anyone has to complain about. I had no trouble
with it as a first time user. Any online radio is only as good as the
listener's ISP service. I've had some lousy dial ups that had a hard
time downloading an email with one attachment, let alone a Streamer
audio. If anyone has trouble getting the Streamer to work, that's a
flag that they need a new ISP. Without a DSL or cable modem service
today, forget it- it's a high speed net world now.