ZARA Overprint on Italy

I have three used Italian definitives of 1929 Victor Emmanuel and
Augustus with this overprint which I can't find in SG.

------------
============
============
=== ZARA ===
============
------------

(the horizontal lines are actually solid and equally-spaced.)

Google finds a Zara in the general area of Venezia, Giulia & Istria,
but no ZARA overprint is shown under VG&I. Other ideas, anyone?

Chris

On 22 Sep 2004 17:59:21 -0700, (Chris
Doran) wrote:

I have three used Italian definitives of 1929 Victor Emmanuel and
Augustus with this overprint which I can't find in SG.

------------
============
============
=== ZARA ===
============
------------

(the horizontal lines are actually solid and equally-spaced.)

Google finds a Zara in the general area of Venezia, Giulia & Istria,
but no ZARA overprint is shown under VG&I. Other ideas, anyone?

In my 1996 Sassone catalog, this is mentioned as "Occupazioni
Straniere", on page 665. This is the overall category. They are
listed as part of "Occupazioni Tedesca - 1943-44". Since I can't read
much more Italiano, that's what I'll mention here. This, apparently,
had to do with the Germans occupying part of Italy, because early
issues of ZARA are overprinted "Deutsche Besetzung Zara".

Hi Chris
Zara is actually "Zadar" in Croatia, occupied as part of the Italian
occupation of Dalmatia (part of the Austro-Hungarian empire) in 1918.
By the treaty of Rapallo,12 November 1920 all Dalmatia except Zara was
ceded to the new Yugoslavia. The areas in Dalmatia in Italian hands
after that coutry's invasion of Yugoslavia (including Zara ) were
occupied by Germany after the Italian armistice with the allies on 8
September 1943. The stamps overprinted as described were issued on 4
November 1943. After the German defeat it was returned to Croatia as
part of the federal Yugoslavia.
This information gleaned from various volumes of the Stanley Gibbons
specialised stamp catalogue.
Note at various times during WW2 parts of Yugoslavia were occupied by
and/or ceded to Germany,Italy,Hungary,Albania and Bulgaria, and when
you couple this with Yugoslav occupation of parts of Italy it makes
for quite a mess. I would imagine that genuine covers from the period
1918 - 1945 would be quite an interesting area of study - but quite
beyond my wallet ( and I think beyond my brain power - a cursory
glance at the SG volumes show that you would need at least a Ph.D in
Balkan History to follow the ins and outs of each individual town and
city).
The 3 stamps you have should be 1929 - 42 issue 50c,75c and 1L25. They
are catalogued in SG Balkans 1987 at £20.50 mint, £50.00 used,
uncatalogued on cover but at a guess stratospheric!!!
Hope this helps
Regards
Malcolm

.. Tracy Barber wrote in message . ..
On 22 Sep 2004 17:59:21 -0700, (Chris
Doran) wrote:

I have three used Italian definitives of 1929 Victor Emmanuel and
Augustus with this overprint which I can't find in SG.

------------
============
============
=== ZARA ===
============
------------

(the horizontal lines are actually solid and equally-spaced.)

Google finds a Zara in the general area of Venezia, Giulia & Istria,
but no ZARA overprint is shown under VG&I. Other ideas, anyone?

In my 1996 Sassone catalog, this is mentioned as "Occupazioni
Straniere", on page 665. This is the overall category. They are
listed as part of "Occupazioni Tedesca - 1943-44". Since I can't read
much more Italiano, that's what I'll mention here. This, apparently,
had to do with the Germans occupying part of Italy, because early
issues of ZARA are overprinted "Deutsche Besetzung Zara".

The Zara overprints were issued in 1943 after the Italians surrendered
to the Allies, and the Germans moved in to occupy the country. Some
images and more information is available he
http://www.rtvmodeler.com/ReichStamps/
Hope this helps.

Allen

Mr. Tracy Barber wrote in message . ..
On 22 Sep 2004 17:59:21 -0700, (Chris
Doran) wrote:

I have three used Italian definitives of 1929 Victor Emmanuel and
Augustus with this overprint which I can't find in SG.

------------
============
============
=== ZARA ===
============
------------

(the horizontal lines are actually solid and equally-spaced.)

Google finds a Zara in the general area of Venezia, Giulia & Istria,
but no ZARA overprint is shown under VG&I. Other ideas, anyone?

In my 1996 Sassone catalog, this is mentioned as "Occupazioni
Straniere", on page 665. This is the overall category. They are
listed as part of "Occupazioni Tedesca - 1943-44". Since I can't read
much more Italiano, that's what I'll mention here. This, apparently,
had to do with the Germans occupying part of Italy, because early
issues of ZARA are overprinted "Deutsche Besetzung Zara".

On 23 Sep 2004 04:57:15 -0700, (malcolm
hirst) wrote:

Hi Chris
Zara is actually "Zadar" in Croatia, occupied as part of the Italian
occupation of Dalmatia (part of the Austro-Hungarian empire) in 1918.
By the treaty of Rapallo,12 November 1920 all Dalmatia except Zara was
ceded to the new Yugoslavia. The areas in Dalmatia in Italian hands
after that coutry's invasion of Yugoslavia (including Zara ) were
occupied by Germany after the Italian armistice with the allies on 8
September 1943. The stamps overprinted as described were issued on 4
November 1943. After the German defeat it was returned to Croatia as
part of the federal Yugoslavia.
This information gleaned from various volumes of the Stanley Gibbons
specialised stamp catalogue.
Note at various times during WW2 parts of Yugoslavia were occupied by
and/or ceded to Germany,Italy,Hungary,Albania and Bulgaria, and when
you couple this with Yugoslav occupation of parts of Italy it makes
for quite a mess. I would imagine that genuine covers from the period
1918 - 1945 would be quite an interesting area of study - but quite
beyond my wallet ( and I think beyond my brain power - a cursory
glance at the SG volumes show that you would need at least a Ph.D in
Balkan History to follow the ins and outs of each individual town and
city).
The 3 stamps you have should be 1929 - 42 issue 50c,75c and 1L25. They
are catalogued in SG Balkans 1987 at £20.50 mint, £50.00 used,
uncatalogued on cover but at a guess stratospheric!!!

I wonder why Sassone states 1943 for the overprints? Hmmmm...



. Tracy Barber wrote in message . ..
On 22 Sep 2004 17:59:21 -0700, (Chris
Doran) wrote:

I have three used Italian definitives of 1929 Victor Emmanuel and
Augustus with this overprint which I can't find in SG.

------------
============
============
=== ZARA ===
============
------------

(the horizontal lines are actually solid and equally-spaced.)

Google finds a Zara in the general area of Venezia, Giulia & Istria,
but no ZARA overprint is shown under VG&I. Other ideas, anyone?

In my 1996 Sassone catalog, this is mentioned as "Occupazioni
Straniere", on page 665. This is the overall category. They are
listed as part of "Occupazioni Tedesca - 1943-44". Since I can't read
much more Italiano, that's what I'll mention here. This, apparently,
had to do with the Germans occupying part of Italy, because early
issues of ZARA are overprinted "Deutsche Besetzung Zara".

"Mr. Tracy Barber" wrote in message
...
On 23 Sep 2004 04:57:15 -0700, (malcolm
hirst) wrote:

Hi Chris
Zara is actually "Zadar" in Croatia, occupied as part of the Italian
occupation of Dalmatia (part of the Austro-Hungarian empire) in 1918.
By the treaty of Rapallo,12 November 1920 all Dalmatia except Zara was
ceded to the new Yugoslavia. The areas in Dalmatia in Italian hands
after that coutry's invasion of Yugoslavia (including Zara ) were
occupied by Germany after the Italian armistice with the allies on 8
September 1943. The stamps overprinted as described were issued on 4
November 1943. After the German defeat it was returned to Croatia as
part of the federal Yugoslavia.
This information gleaned from various volumes of the Stanley Gibbons
specialised stamp catalogue.
Note at various times during WW2 parts of Yugoslavia were occupied by
and/or ceded to Germany,Italy,Hungary,Albania and Bulgaria, and when
you couple this with Yugoslav occupation of parts of Italy it makes
for quite a mess. I would imagine that genuine covers from the period
1918 - 1945 would be quite an interesting area of study - but quite
beyond my wallet ( and I think beyond my brain power - a cursory
glance at the SG volumes show that you would need at least a Ph.D in
Balkan History to follow the ins and outs of each individual town and
city).
The 3 stamps you have should be 1929 - 42 issue 50c,75c and 1L25. They
are catalogued in SG Balkans 1987 at £20.50 mint, £50.00 used,
uncatalogued on cover but at a guess stratospheric!!!

I wonder why Sassone states 1943 for the overprints? Hmmmm...

Because it remained as a part of Italy until its surrender in 1943, then the
Germans took control over all parts of Italy that were not under Allied
control.

Tony




. Tracy Barber wrote in message
. ..
On 22 Sep 2004 17:59:21 -0700, (Chris
Doran) wrote:

I have three used Italian definitives of 1929 Victor Emmanuel and
Augustus with this overprint which I can't find in SG.

------------
============
============
=== ZARA ===
============
------------

(the horizontal lines are actually solid and equally-spaced.)

Google finds a Zara in the general area of Venezia, Giulia & Istria,
but no ZARA overprint is shown under VG&I. Other ideas, anyone?

In my 1996 Sassone catalog, this is mentioned as "Occupazioni
Straniere", on page 665. This is the overall category. They are
listed as part of "Occupazioni Tedesca - 1943-44". Since I can't read
much more Italiano, that's what I'll mention here. This, apparently,
had to do with the Germans occupying part of Italy, because early
issues of ZARA are overprinted "Deutsche Besetzung Zara".

Thanks everyone. I'd never have thought of looking under Yugoslavia,
though with hindsight I can find the relevant Zara/Zadar at
http://www.fallingrain.com/world/HR/20/Zadar.html

Two of my three are the 50c and 75c, the lower CVs of the set, but not
the more valuable 1L25 (now £110 used on
http://www.allworldstamps.com/), but as they came from an Italy
mixture working out at a few pence each and are now £15 and £16 used,
I'm still (literally) quids in :-) The third stamp remains a mystery
-- it's the sepia 10c Augustus (Italy SG 241) which I don't see listed
with a ZARA overprint, though it is there with Deutsche Besetzung
Zara. Does anyone have it in a different cat? The Zara page at
http://www.rtvmodeler.com/ReichStamps/ has only the DBZs.

Chris

(Allen Bohart) wrote in message . com...
The Zara overprints were issued in 1943 after the Italians surrendered
to the Allies, and the Germans moved in to occupy the country. Some
images and more information is available he
http://www.rtvmodeler.com/ReichStamps/
Hope this helps.

Allen

Mr. Tracy Barber wrote in message . ..
On 22 Sep 2004 17:59:21 -0700, (Chris
Doran) wrote:

I have three used Italian definitives of 1929 Victor Emmanuel and
Augustus with this overprint which I can't find in SG.

------------
============
============
=== ZARA ===
============
------------

(the horizontal lines are actually solid and equally-spaced.)

Google finds a Zara in the general area of Venezia, Giulia & Istria,
but no ZARA overprint is shown under VG&I. Other ideas, anyone?

In my 1996 Sassone catalog, this is mentioned as "Occupazioni
Straniere", on page 665. This is the overall category. They are
listed as part of "Occupazioni Tedesca - 1943-44". Since I can't read
much more Italiano, that's what I'll mention here. This, apparently,
had to do with the Germans occupying part of Italy, because early
issues of ZARA are overprinted "Deutsche Besetzung Zara".

On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 17:00:52 -0500, "A.E. Gelat"
wrote:

The 3 stamps you have should be 1929 - 42 issue 50c,75c and 1L25. They
are catalogued in SG Balkans 1987 at £20.50 mint, £50.00 used,
uncatalogued on cover but at a guess stratospheric!!!

I wonder why Sassone states 1943 for the overprints? Hmmmm...

Because it remained as a part of Italy until its surrender in 1943, then the
Germans took control over all parts of Italy that were not under Allied
control.

Yup, but I wonder why - if they were issued in 1943 - how they could
be part of an earlier set.

In a recent message (Chris Doran) wrote:

Thanks everyone. I'd never have thought of looking under Yugoslavia,
though with hindsight I can find the relevant Zara/Zadar at
http://www.fallingrain.com/world/HR/20/Zadar.html

Two of my three are the 50c and 75c, the lower CVs of the set, but not
the more valuable 1L25 (now £110 used on
http://www.allworldstamps.com/), but as they came from an Italy
mixture working out at a few pence each and are now £15 and £16 used,
I'm still (literally) quids in :-) The third stamp remains a mystery
-- it's the sepia 10c Augustus (Italy SG 241) which I don't see listed
with a ZARA overprint, though it is there with Deutsche Besetzung
Zara. Does anyone have it in a different cat? The Zara page at
http://www.rtvmodeler.com/ReichStamps/ has only the DBZs.

Chris


I have both Sassone and Catalago Enciclopedico Italiano. These list
the Zara with lines overprint for 50c, 75c and 1l25. It is also known for
the 20c Caesar type, and the 25c and 30c War Propaganda types.

The former is thought to be a proof from a single sheet, not known used.

Dangerous false (forged) overprints are known for this series, and
if you have a 10c I suspect that might probably be forged, and the fact
that you have two others casts doubts on their authenticity.

The Italians seem to be very prolific in manufacturing extra examples
of scarce overprints - I have several copies of very rare CLN issues
which make me wonder as to their authenticity!

--
Tony Clayton or
Coins of the UK : http://www.tclayton.demon.co.uk/coins.html
Values of Coins of the UK : http://www.tclayton.demon.co.uk/values/coins.html
Metals used in Coins : http://www.tclayton.demon.co.uk/metal.html
Sent using RISC OS on an Acorn Strong Arm RiscPC
.... :.::: ::..: ::.::. :..:: Tagline in Braille

Chris,
I would be very careful with these, as the overprint issues of
German occupied countries are infamous for the prevalence of fakes and
forgeries. I suspect that the 10c you have is one, and it may be that
the other two are as well. My Michel German specialized catalog also
does not list a 10c. A good place to pose the question, along with
scans, is in the Third_Reich_Stamps group on yahoo. Some incredibly
knowledgable people over there. Specifically, Jay Carrigan is a person
who can almost certainly give you an answer concerning identification
and validity.

Allen

(Chris Doran) wrote in message . com...
Thanks everyone. I'd never have thought of looking under Yugoslavia,
though with hindsight I can find the relevant Zara/Zadar at
http://www.fallingrain.com/world/HR/20/Zadar.html

Two of my three are the 50c and 75c, the lower CVs of the set, but not
the more valuable 1L25 (now £110 used on
http://www.allworldstamps.com/), but as they came from an Italy
mixture working out at a few pence each and are now £15 and £16 used,
I'm still (literally) quids in :-) The third stamp remains a mystery
-- it's the sepia 10c Augustus (Italy SG 241) which I don't see listed
with a ZARA overprint, though it is there with Deutsche Besetzung
Zara. Does anyone have it in a different cat? The Zara page at
http://www.rtvmodeler.com/ReichStamps/ has only the DBZs.

Chris