eBay's Big 4 TPGs

Jerry Dennis wrote:
On Dec 18, 9:53?am, Frank Provasek wrote:
On Dec 18, 2:51?am, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com
wrote:





Jerry Dennis wrote:
On Dec 17, 3:40?pm, Frank Provasek wrote:
On Dec 11, 5:21?pm, Jerry Dennis wrote:

Perhaps, but I must interject. ?ICG is (or at least was)
notorious for liberal grading in MS grades. ?None of the other
TPG have as many MS-70s as ICG.

Jerry

According towww.greysheet.com, these are the average relative
valuations for sight-unseen dealer bids:

PCGS: 76.98%
NGC: 77.11%
ANACS: 56.79%
ICG: 63.91%
PCI: 49.17%
SEGS: 48.21%
NCI: 40.05%
INS: 29.05%

ICG, at least until about a year ago with J.P. Martin (who
developed the ANA grading seminars and standards) as its chief
grader, used the ANA standards. ?As such, MOST modern NCLT
(noncirculating legal tender) trinkets WILL grade 70 unless they
have been mishandled. ?(70 is NOT "perfect")

Services such as PCGS, with almost unobtainable internal standards
for "70," make that grade artificially scarce (in their plastic)
thus making PCGS coins "worth" more.

Conversely, many 19th century coins with "rub" that PCGS ?will
grade MS61 or MS62, would be graded AU58 by ICG.

From the PCGS official grading guide:

What slight friction? ?Discoloration on the high points? ?Who
cares!

--
RARE COIN AUCTIONS NO RESERVES
?http://www.frankcoins.comhttp://mywo...nsTexasAuction
License 11259, Board member of Texas Coin Dealers Association,
Member TNA, ANA, PCGS, NGC - ?Full Time Since 1991

I found the greysheet bid percentages interesting. ?I would have
thought ANACS would have rated higher (closer to 70%) since they
seem a lot tougher on MS grades.

That not withstanding, I must point out here that I have no grief,
whatsoever, with ICG grading in the AU and below grades.

...and how about the others in the AU and below grades?

James the Provocateur- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In circulated grades, the 4 "approved" services and PCI and SEGS are
pretty close, and all are very good (and certainly far better than
raw) on authentication.

Ebay allows you to list a 1916-D dime with a fake mintmark RAW -- but
if you offer one and mention that it is in a slab from PCI or Larry
Briggs's SEGS, ( almost certainly genuine) Ebay will end the auction,
and issue sanctions, up to and including reporting to law
enforcement.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Paragraph 1 - I agree wholeheartedly with the majority of RCC-ers.

What does the majority say? I'm not sure I'm part of it.

The "big four" plus PCI and SEGS are all relatively accurate in the
lower grades, I have no problem with any of them.

Relative to what? The ANA Grading Standards, or to each other?

Paragraph 2 - Screw ebay.

No, thanks, I still like eBay.

James the "Relative" Virgin

On Dec 18, 5:35*pm, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:
Jerry Dennis wrote:
On Dec 18, 9:53?am, Frank Provasek wrote:
On Dec 18, 2:51?am, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com
wrote:

Jerry Dennis wrote:
On Dec 17, 3:40?pm, Frank Provasek wrote:
On Dec 11, 5:21?pm, Jerry Dennis wrote:

Perhaps, but I must interject. ?ICG is (or at least was)
notorious for liberal grading in MS grades. ?None of the other
TPG have as many MS-70s as ICG.

Jerry

According towww.greysheet.com, these are the average relative
valuations for sight-unseen dealer bids:

PCGS: 76.98%
NGC: 77.11%
ANACS: 56.79%
ICG: 63.91%
PCI: 49.17%
SEGS: 48.21%
NCI: 40.05%
INS: 29.05%

ICG, at least until about a year ago with J.P. Martin (who
developed the ANA grading seminars and standards) as its chief
grader, used the ANA standards. ?As such, MOST modern NCLT
(noncirculating legal tender) trinkets WILL grade 70 unless they
have been mishandled. ?(70 is NOT "perfect")

Services such as PCGS, with almost unobtainable internal standards
for "70," make that grade artificially scarce (in their plastic)
thus making PCGS coins "worth" more.

Conversely, many 19th century coins with "rub" that PCGS ?will
grade MS61 or MS62, would be graded AU58 by ICG.

From the PCGS official grading guide:

What slight friction? ?Discoloration on the high points? ?Who
cares!

--
RARE COIN AUCTIONS NO RESERVES
?http://www.frankcoins.comhttp://mywo...nsTexasAuction
License 11259, Board member of Texas Coin Dealers Association,
Member TNA, ANA, PCGS, NGC - ?Full Time Since 1991

I found the greysheet bid percentages interesting. ?I would have
thought ANACS would have rated higher (closer to 70%) since they
seem a lot tougher on MS grades.

That not withstanding, I must point out here that I have no grief,
whatsoever, with ICG grading in the AU and below grades.

...and how about the others in the AU and below grades?

James the Provocateur- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In circulated grades, the 4 "approved" services and PCI and SEGS are
pretty close, and all are very good (and certainly far better than
raw) on authentication.

Ebay allows you to list a 1916-D dime with a fake mintmark RAW -- but
if you offer one and mention that it is in a slab from PCI or Larry
Briggs's SEGS, ( almost certainly genuine) Ebay will end the auction,
and issue sanctions, up to and including reporting to law
enforcement.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Paragraph 1 - I agree wholeheartedly with the majority of RCC-ers.

What does the majority say? *I'm not sure I'm part of it.

The "big four" plus PCI and SEGS are all relatively accurate in the
lower grades, *I have no problem with any of them.

Relative to what? *The ANA Grading Standards, or to each other?

Paragraph 2 - Screw ebay.

No, thanks, I still like eBay.

James the "Relative" Virgin- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I like Ebay - it helps me to get many collectable items I've never
seen and never knew existed.

Of course, I'm not trying to play the "long-distance crack-out U.S.
coin game".

oly

oly wrote:
On Dec 18, 5:35 pm, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:
Jerry Dennis wrote:
On Dec 18, 9:53?am, Frank Provasek wrote:
On Dec 18, 2:51?am, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com
wrote:

Jerry Dennis wrote:
On Dec 17, 3:40?pm, Frank Provasek wrote:
On Dec 11, 5:21?pm, Jerry Dennis wrote:

Perhaps, but I must interject. ?ICG is (or at least was)
notorious for liberal grading in MS grades. ?None of the other
TPG have as many MS-70s as ICG.

Jerry

According towww.greysheet.com, these are the average relative
valuations for sight-unseen dealer bids:

PCGS: 76.98%
NGC: 77.11%
ANACS: 56.79%
ICG: 63.91%
PCI: 49.17%
SEGS: 48.21%
NCI: 40.05%
INS: 29.05%

ICG, at least until about a year ago with J.P. Martin (who
developed the ANA grading seminars and standards) as its chief
grader, used the ANA standards. ?As such, MOST modern NCLT
(noncirculating legal tender) trinkets WILL grade 70 unless they
have been mishandled. ?(70 is NOT "perfect")

Services such as PCGS, with almost unobtainable internal
standards for "70," make that grade artificially scarce (in
their plastic) thus making PCGS coins "worth" more.

Conversely, many 19th century coins with "rub" that PCGS ?will
grade MS61 or MS62, would be graded AU58 by ICG.

From the PCGS official grading guide:

What slight friction? ?Discoloration on the high points? ?Who
cares!

--
RARE COIN AUCTIONS NO RESERVES
?http://www.frankcoins.comhttp://mywo...nsTexasAuction
License 11259, Board member of Texas Coin Dealers Association,
Member TNA, ANA, PCGS, NGC - ?Full Time Since 1991

I found the greysheet bid percentages interesting. ?I would have
thought ANACS would have rated higher (closer to 70%) since they
seem a lot tougher on MS grades.

That not withstanding, I must point out here that I have no
grief, whatsoever, with ICG grading in the AU and below grades.

...and how about the others in the AU and below grades?

James the Provocateur- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In circulated grades, the 4 "approved" services and PCI and SEGS
are pretty close, and all are very good (and certainly far better
than raw) on authentication.

Ebay allows you to list a 1916-D dime with a fake mintmark RAW --
but if you offer one and mention that it is in a slab from PCI or
Larry Briggs's SEGS, ( almost certainly genuine) Ebay will end the
auction, and issue sanctions, up to and including reporting to law
enforcement.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Paragraph 1 - I agree wholeheartedly with the majority of RCC-ers.

What does the majority say? I'm not sure I'm part of it.

The "big four" plus PCI and SEGS are all relatively accurate in the
lower grades, I have no problem with any of them.

Relative to what? The ANA Grading Standards, or to each other?

Paragraph 2 - Screw ebay.

No, thanks, I still like eBay.

James the "Relative" Virgin- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I like Ebay - it helps me to get many collectable items I've never
seen and never knew existed.

Of course, I'm not trying to play the "long-distance crack-out U.S.
coin game".

Ebay is amazing, with the caveat that one has to be both very knowledgeable
and very careful. Where else can a guy find world coins that retail for
less than five bucks? Set your search terms as favorites, and you can pick
off the auctions almost effortlessly. It sure beats going through binders
at shows.

And you're right about the crackout game. B-a-a-a-a-a-a-d idea to try it on
eBay.

James

On Dec 18, 6:26*pm, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:
oly wrote:
On Dec 18, 5:35 pm, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:
Jerry Dennis wrote:
On Dec 18, 9:53?am, Frank Provasek wrote:
On Dec 18, 2:51?am, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com
wrote:

Jerry Dennis wrote:
On Dec 17, 3:40?pm, Frank Provasek wrote:
On Dec 11, 5:21?pm, Jerry Dennis wrote:

Perhaps, but I must interject. ?ICG is (or at least was)
notorious for liberal grading in MS grades. ?None of the other
TPG have as many MS-70s as ICG.

Jerry

According towww.greysheet.com, these are the average relative
valuations for sight-unseen dealer bids:

PCGS: 76.98%
NGC: 77.11%
ANACS: 56.79%
ICG: 63.91%
PCI: 49.17%
SEGS: 48.21%
NCI: 40.05%
INS: 29.05%

ICG, at least until about a year ago with J.P. Martin (who
developed the ANA grading seminars and standards) as its chief
grader, used the ANA standards. ?As such, MOST modern NCLT
(noncirculating legal tender) trinkets WILL grade 70 unless they
have been mishandled. ?(70 is NOT "perfect")

Services such as PCGS, with almost unobtainable internal
standards for "70," make that grade artificially scarce (in
their plastic) thus making PCGS coins "worth" more.

Conversely, many 19th century coins with "rub" that PCGS ?will
grade MS61 or MS62, would be graded AU58 by ICG.

From the PCGS official grading guide:

What slight friction? ?Discoloration on the high points? ?Who
cares!

--
RARE COIN AUCTIONS NO RESERVES
?http://www.frankcoins.comhttp://mywo...nsTexasAuction
License 11259, Board member of Texas Coin Dealers Association,
Member TNA, ANA, PCGS, NGC - ?Full Time Since 1991

I found the greysheet bid percentages interesting. ?I would have
thought ANACS would have rated higher (closer to 70%) since they
seem a lot tougher on MS grades.

That not withstanding, I must point out here that I have no
grief, whatsoever, with ICG grading in the AU and below grades.

...and how about the others in the AU and below grades?

James the Provocateur- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In circulated grades, the 4 "approved" services and PCI and SEGS
are pretty close, and all are very good (and certainly far better
than raw) on authentication.

Ebay allows you to list a 1916-D dime with a fake mintmark RAW --
but if you offer one and mention that it is in a slab from PCI or
Larry Briggs's SEGS, ( almost certainly genuine) Ebay will end the
auction, and issue sanctions, up to and including reporting to law
enforcement.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Paragraph 1 - I agree wholeheartedly with the majority of RCC-ers.

What does the majority say? I'm not sure I'm part of it.

The "big four" plus PCI and SEGS are all relatively accurate in the
lower grades, I have no problem with any of them.

Relative to what? The ANA Grading Standards, or to each other?

Paragraph 2 - Screw ebay.

No, thanks, I still like eBay.

James the "Relative" Virgin- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I like Ebay - it helps me to get many collectable items I've never
seen and never knew existed.

Of course, I'm not trying to play the "long-distance crack-out U.S.
coin game".

Ebay is amazing, with the caveat that one has to be both very knowledgeable
and very careful. *Where else can a guy find world coins that retail for
less than five bucks? *Set your search terms as favorites, and you can pick
off the auctions almost effortlessly. *It sure beats going through binders
at shows.

And you're right about the crackout game. *B-a-a-a-a-a-a-d idea to try it on
eBay.

James- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

But they DO try to play "the long distance crack-out game" using
Ebay. Every damn day. IT IS SO AMAZING.

The USPS must be so grateful.

It is as if somebody who was relatively savvy enough to have the
thingie slabbed (for better or worse) was going to let a high-end coin
(in a mis-graded holder) go for nothing. But it seems to happen every
day.

If you're going to play the crack-out game, you gotta (at a minimum)
go in person to decent coin shows and lay out the $$$ that is
necessary to personally attend and to see the coins in person. But
there seem to be legions of pole-troons who think they can just cruise
Ebay and beat out hundreds of other pole-troons on highly desireable
undergraded stuff. Preposterous.

I would say that if the hoi polloi collector had the opportunity to
buy ANY coin in a "leading slab", then - at best - that coin was
AVERAGE for the grade.

Buy coins as historical artifcats, not as "investments".

oly

"Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote in message
...
oly wrote:
On Dec 18, 5:35 pm, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:
Jerry Dennis wrote:
On Dec 18, 9:53?am, Frank Provasek wrote:
On Dec 18, 2:51?am, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com
wrote:

Jerry Dennis wrote:
On Dec 17, 3:40?pm, Frank Provasek wrote:
On Dec 11, 5:21?pm, Jerry Dennis wrote:

Perhaps, but I must interject. ?ICG is (or at least was)
notorious for liberal grading in MS grades. ?None of the other
TPG have as many MS-70s as ICG.

Jerry

According towww.greysheet.com, these are the average relative
valuations for sight-unseen dealer bids:

PCGS: 76.98%
NGC: 77.11%
ANACS: 56.79%
ICG: 63.91%
PCI: 49.17%
SEGS: 48.21%
NCI: 40.05%
INS: 29.05%

ICG, at least until about a year ago with J.P. Martin (who
developed the ANA grading seminars and standards) as its chief
grader, used the ANA standards. ?As such, MOST modern NCLT
(noncirculating legal tender) trinkets WILL grade 70 unless they
have been mishandled. ?(70 is NOT "perfect")

Services such as PCGS, with almost unobtainable internal
standards for "70," make that grade artificially scarce (in
their plastic) thus making PCGS coins "worth" more.

Conversely, many 19th century coins with "rub" that PCGS ?will
grade MS61 or MS62, would be graded AU58 by ICG.

From the PCGS official grading guide:

What slight friction? ?Discoloration on the high points? ?Who
cares!

--
RARE COIN AUCTIONS NO RESERVES
?http://www.frankcoins.comhttp://mywo...nsTexasAuction
License 11259, Board member of Texas Coin Dealers Association,
Member TNA, ANA, PCGS, NGC - ?Full Time Since 1991

I found the greysheet bid percentages interesting. ?I would have
thought ANACS would have rated higher (closer to 70%) since they
seem a lot tougher on MS grades.

That not withstanding, I must point out here that I have no
grief, whatsoever, with ICG grading in the AU and below grades.

...and how about the others in the AU and below grades?

James the Provocateur- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In circulated grades, the 4 "approved" services and PCI and SEGS
are pretty close, and all are very good (and certainly far better
than raw) on authentication.

Ebay allows you to list a 1916-D dime with a fake mintmark RAW --
but if you offer one and mention that it is in a slab from PCI or
Larry Briggs's SEGS, ( almost certainly genuine) Ebay will end the
auction, and issue sanctions, up to and including reporting to law
enforcement.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Paragraph 1 - I agree wholeheartedly with the majority of RCC-ers.

What does the majority say? I'm not sure I'm part of it.

The "big four" plus PCI and SEGS are all relatively accurate in the
lower grades, I have no problem with any of them.

Relative to what? The ANA Grading Standards, or to each other?

Paragraph 2 - Screw ebay.

No, thanks, I still like eBay.

James the "Relative" Virgin- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I like Ebay - it helps me to get many collectable items I've never
seen and never knew existed.

Of course, I'm not trying to play the "long-distance crack-out U.S.
coin game".

Ebay is amazing, with the caveat that one has to be both very
knowledgeable and very careful. Where else can a guy find world coins
that retail for less than five bucks? Set your search terms as favorites,
and you can pick off the auctions almost effortlessly. It sure beats
going through binders at shows.

Always been my sentiments as well. And where else can you expose your sale
items to a world of potential buyers for anywhere near the price? Now if I
can just find a way to turn off that "hover" feature that pops up a big
photo whenever my curser happens to cross that "Enlarge" link for each
auction on the search results page.

oly wrote:
I would say that if the hoi polloi collector had the opportunity to
buy ANY coin in a "leading slab", then - at best - that coin was
AVERAGE for the grade.

Now, you done gone and said a mouthful there, mon vieux. By the time a slab
gets into a dealer's case at a show, and I see it, it has already been
rejected by, oh, how many would you say, potential buyers during the
"dealer's preview" hours.

Buy coins as historical artifcats, not as "investments".

That's been my mantra since the beginning, way back in nineteen mumbly-four
when I plunked my first Lincoln cent into that blue Whitman folder. And
it's been one fantastic journey!

James

Bruce Remick wrote:
"Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote in message
...
oly wrote:
On Dec 18, 5:35 pm, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com
wrote:
Jerry Dennis wrote:
On Dec 18, 9:53?am, Frank Provasek wrote:
On Dec 18, 2:51?am, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com
wrote:

Jerry Dennis wrote:
On Dec 17, 3:40?pm, Frank Provasek
wrote:
On Dec 11, 5:21?pm, Jerry Dennis wrote:

Perhaps, but I must interject. ?ICG is (or at least was)
notorious for liberal grading in MS grades. ?None of the
other TPG have as many MS-70s as ICG.

Jerry

According towww.greysheet.com, these are the average relative
valuations for sight-unseen dealer bids:

PCGS: 76.98%
NGC: 77.11%
ANACS: 56.79%
ICG: 63.91%
PCI: 49.17%
SEGS: 48.21%
NCI: 40.05%
INS: 29.05%

ICG, at least until about a year ago with J.P. Martin (who
developed the ANA grading seminars and standards) as its chief
grader, used the ANA standards. ?As such, MOST modern NCLT
(noncirculating legal tender) trinkets WILL grade 70 unless
they have been mishandled. ?(70 is NOT "perfect")

Services such as PCGS, with almost unobtainable internal
standards for "70," make that grade artificially scarce (in
their plastic) thus making PCGS coins "worth" more.

Conversely, many 19th century coins with "rub" that PCGS ?will
grade MS61 or MS62, would be graded AU58 by ICG.

From the PCGS official grading guide:

What slight friction? ?Discoloration on the high points? ?Who
cares!

--
RARE COIN AUCTIONS NO RESERVES
?http://www.frankcoins.comhttp://mywo...nsTexasAuction
License 11259, Board member of Texas Coin Dealers Association,
Member TNA, ANA, PCGS, NGC - ?Full Time Since 1991

I found the greysheet bid percentages interesting. ?I would
have thought ANACS would have rated higher (closer to 70%)
since they seem a lot tougher on MS grades.

That not withstanding, I must point out here that I have no
grief, whatsoever, with ICG grading in the AU and below grades.

...and how about the others in the AU and below grades?

James the Provocateur- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In circulated grades, the 4 "approved" services and PCI and SEGS
are pretty close, and all are very good (and certainly far better
than raw) on authentication.

Ebay allows you to list a 1916-D dime with a fake mintmark RAW --
but if you offer one and mention that it is in a slab from PCI or
Larry Briggs's SEGS, ( almost certainly genuine) Ebay will end
the auction, and issue sanctions, up to and including reporting
to law enforcement.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Paragraph 1 - I agree wholeheartedly with the majority of RCC-ers.

What does the majority say? I'm not sure I'm part of it.

The "big four" plus PCI and SEGS are all relatively accurate in
the lower grades, I have no problem with any of them.

Relative to what? The ANA Grading Standards, or to each other?

Paragraph 2 - Screw ebay.

No, thanks, I still like eBay.

James the "Relative" Virgin- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I like Ebay - it helps me to get many collectable items I've never
seen and never knew existed.

Of course, I'm not trying to play the "long-distance crack-out U.S.
coin game".

Ebay is amazing, with the caveat that one has to be both very
knowledgeable and very careful. Where else can a guy find world
coins that retail for less than five bucks? Set your search terms
as favorites, and you can pick off the auctions almost effortlessly.
It sure beats going through binders at shows.

Always been my sentiments as well. And where else can you expose
your sale items to a world of potential buyers for anywhere near the
price? Now if I can just find a way to turn off that "hover" feature
that pops up a big photo whenever my curser happens to cross that
"Enlarge" link for each auction on the search results page.

As I approach my mid-geezerhood, I start calculating the real cost of going
to all the shows I have attended over the last 30 years. When I do that,
the premiums I might have to pay to an eBay vendor and the postage to get
the coin shipped to my door suddenly become very tolerable, even astute
business acumen.

James the Cheapskate