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Classifying non-circulating non-legal tender papermoney
If you want to consider real circulating notes and not notes of somewhat
unusual issue, consider the banknotes of Scotland; Royal Bank of Scotland, Bank of Scotland, and Clydesdale Bank are still issuing notes which are not legal tender, are circulating throughout Scotland as medium, and have no Government sponsorship. They are backed on the faith in the banks issuing them, and their deposits with Bank of England as a guarantee. Hong Kong also has a number of banks, three or four which continue to issue their own distinctive notes, one Bank of China is owned by the Chinese Govt, the others are public corporations. Dave "Garry" wrote in message m... We are trying to determine a way to classify non-government, non-legal tender banknote issues and would appreciate hearing opinions. Recently we received this comment from Alexander Ganse on this question ..."To combine serious currency with bogus issues in one and the same catalogue (www.numismondo.com), without clearly distinguishing them into categories, results in the danger that some users will not take the entire catalogue serious." Alexander Ganse runs the World History website http://www.zum.de/whkmla/index.html and has linked to several pages on www.numismondo.com. He makes a good point and as a result we are trying to find a way to better distinguish these notes from government/state/provincial legal tender issues. Many of these micronations exist only as a website and have no legal status. We have chosen to include them in the catalog because they are collectible items and in some cases examples of these notes are hard for collectors to find. Some examples of these issues are listed below. Thoughts? Garry Saint, Esquire, IBNS, LANSA Webmaster http://numismondo.com Examples: Alaska-Russian American Company http://numismondo.com/pm/aka/ Jason Islands http://www.numismondo.com/pm/jas/ Herm Island http://www.numismondo.com/pm/his/ Hutt River Province http://numismondo.com/pm/hut/ Khakasiya http://numismondo.com/pm/kaz/ Landreth http://www.numismondo.com/pm/lan/ Padania http://numismondo.com/pm/pad/ etc. |
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On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 16:16:51 -0400, "Scottishmoney"
wrote: If you want to consider real circulating notes and not notes of somewhat unusual issue, consider the banknotes of Scotland; Royal Bank of Scotland, Bank of Scotland, and Clydesdale Bank are still issuing notes which are not legal tender, are circulating throughout Scotland as medium, and have no Government sponsorship. They are backed on the faith in the banks issuing them, and their deposits with Bank of England as a guarantee. Sorry I'm seeing this late, but the Scottish situation is interesting. I didn't know they weren't legal tender, though. How is it they can issue them, then? More to the point, how popular are they in Scotland? England? [Clearly they are extremely popular in Ebayland!] How do Scots view this situation? Why isn't there a move to make the situation more regular - or is there? As Scotland moves towards greater independence, will the Scottish government in some way begin to back these notes (as presumably England backs the BoE notes)? How long would the exchange equivalence last if the two systems became separate? Padraic. la cieurgeourea provoer mal trasfu ast meiyoer ke 'l andrext ben trasfu. |
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"Padraic Brown" wrote in message Sorry I'm seeing this late, but the Scottish situation is interesting. I didn't know they weren't legal tender, though. How is it they can issue them, then? More to the point, how popular are they in Scotland? England? [Clearly they are extremely popular in Ebayland!] How do Scots view this situation? Why isn't there a move to make the situation more regular - or is there? The only protest have been very occasional challenges in sheriffs courts on what qualifies as legal tender. The general consensus have been that it it whatever is accepted by the majority of the population. They do make up the great majority of the circulating paper medium of exchange in Scotland, in fact are universally accepted in Scotland. In England there is no obligation to accept the Scottish banknotes and some shopkeepers will resist taking them and cannot be forced to accept them. As Scotland moves towards greater independence, will the Scottish government in some way begin to back these notes (as presumably England backs the BoE notes)? How long would the exchange equivalence last if the two systems became separate? Padraic. I think the bigger threat to continued Scottish banknote issues will be the possible introduction of the Euro into Britain. Even in the event the two nations divorce themselves, in all likelyhood the £ will have gone the way of the £SD anyway and the play money from Euroland will reign and exchange in both countries. Dave --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.528 / Virus Database: 324 - Release Date: 10/16/03 |
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On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 06:51:20 -0400, "Scottishmoney"
wrote: The only protest have been very occasional challenges in sheriffs courts on what qualifies as legal tender. The general consensus have been that it it whatever is accepted by the majority of the population. Interesting! A different solution to over here, where there is a standard of what has to be accepted! They do make up the great majority of the circulating paper medium of exchange in Scotland, in fact are universally accepted in Scotland. In England there is no obligation to accept the Scottish banknotes and some shopkeepers will resist taking them and cannot be forced to accept them. Do some English merchants take them? Are merchants along the border more likely to accept them, in the way northern New York merchants accept Canadian dollars? As Scotland moves towards greater independence, will the Scottish government in some way begin to back these notes (as presumably England backs the BoE notes)? How long would the exchange equivalence last if the two systems became separate? I think the bigger threat to continued Scottish banknote issues will be the possible introduction of the Euro into Britain. Hm. How popular is the notion of Eurofying the UK or even just Scotland? Padraic. la cieurgeourea provoer mal trasfu ast meiyoer ke 'l andrext ben trasfu. |
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"Padraic Brown" wrote in message Do some English merchants take them? Are merchants along the border more likely to accept them, in the way northern New York merchants accept Canadian dollars? Many english merchants will accept them, many but certainly not all. Our very own Note.Boy had experiences with this during a recent foray into Yorkshire. I have seen very few instances where American merchants accepted Canadian $, at Niagara Falls, and then in Sault Ste. Marie Michigan, where it seems like lots of Canadians shop in the grocery stores as a tax haven. On the other hand I can spend US $ anywhere in Canada, provided I will accept only Canadian $ in change as is the rule in the places I have done it. Recently the Canadian $ has appreciated considerably against the US$, it is now 77¢ for a Canadian $, but a year or so ago it was in the low 60¢ range. Hm. How popular is the notion of Eurofying the UK or even just Scotland? Padraic. Perhaps a bit less popular than the notion of Eurofying has been in Denmark or Sweden. Many merchants in the larger cities willingly accept Euro cash in transactions, it is good business, but otherwise the general public rather seem against the idea. The Pound has a long and proud history and even survived the trauma of two World Wars, and decimalisation in 1971. So it is a bit of an institution which I don't see going away unless something dramatic happens. Dave |
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On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 20:42:48 -0400, Padraic Brown
wrote: On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 06:51:20 -0400, "Scottishmoney" wrote: The only protest have been very occasional challenges in sheriffs courts on what qualifies as legal tender. The general consensus have been that it it whatever is accepted by the majority of the population. Interesting! A different solution to over here, where there is a standard of what has to be accepted! It is perhaps more interesting than that, the only legal tender in Scotland are the one, and two, pound coins. No bank notes are legal tender in Scotland, and this includes those issued by the Bank of England. They do make up the great majority of the circulating paper medium of exchange in Scotland, in fact are universally accepted in Scotland. In England there is no obligation to accept the Scottish banknotes and some shopkeepers will resist taking them and cannot be forced to accept them. I haven't had a note refused for some time. You get the occasional strange look but no more than that. I should say at this point that I live in England. Do some English merchants take them? Are merchants along the border more likely to accept them, in the way northern New York merchants accept Canadian dollars? It's not the same distinction. Scotland is not a different country(!) As Scotland moves towards greater independence, will the Scottish government in some way begin to back these notes (as presumably England backs the BoE notes)? How long would the exchange equivalence last if the two systems became separate? Scottish Government... s****** I think the bigger threat to continued Scottish banknote issues will be the possible introduction of the Euro into Britain. Hm. How popular is the notion of Eurofying the UK or even just Scotland? Some schools of thought (OK, it's just me) think there is a greater probability of the UK accepting the US dollar in place of the pound and rather than the Euro. It comes down to whether the UK has a European economy or not. Of course if it were agreed that we could have the Queen on the paper money, sure, no problem. Darren |
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"Darren" wrote in message It's not the same distinction. Scotland is not a different country(!) Tell that to a Scot, rather to his face. Scottish Government... s****** Darren I believe one could take serious exception to the last statement in your message, but for the mere fact that the Scottish Parliament has done absolutely nothing beyond appropriating some £400.000.000,00 for the construction of their new parliament building. Aside from gold plated priveys and sumptious lounge chairs in their new domicile they have accomplished practically nil for the Scottish nation. Sad, but they set out with the aim of devolution, but the end result maybe the opposite as people get fed up with their excess and lack of affirmative legislation on behalf of Scotland. I have seen polls in the press that have suggested this is causing some discord amongst voters whom were previously in favour of having a Scottish Parliament. Have a looky at this article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3129822.stm Dave |
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On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 08:24:51 -0400, "Scottishmoney"
wrote: "Darren" wrote in message It's not the same distinction. Scotland is not a different country(!) Tell that to a Scot, rather to his face. Quite. the Scottish Parliament has done absolutely nothing beyond appropriating some £400.000.000,00 for the construction of their new parliament building. Aside from gold plated priveys and sumptious lounge chairs in their new domicile they have accomplished practically nil for the Scottish nation. Sounds like they're doing what Government does best: steal and spend money on its own behalf. Sad indeed. Padraic. la cieurgeourea provoer mal trasfu ast meiyoer ke 'l andrext ben trasfu. |
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On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:04:43 -0400, Padraic Brown
wrote: On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 08:24:51 -0400, "Scottishmoney" wrote: "Darren" wrote in message It's not the same distinction. Scotland is not a different country(!) Tell that to a Scot, rather to his face. Quite. Done it. It really isn't a problem, other than with a vocal minority. In fact I had to listen to a lecture, by a Scotsman, as to why devolution was going to be a bad idea (this was a few years ago) Maybe I know the wrong kind of Scotsmen... I wouldn't go as far to say Scotland is part of England, but I be interested if anyone is planning to follow Scotland's progress at the Olympics next year, or England's for that matter. Thanks Darren |
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On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 21:07:46 +0000 (UTC), Darren
wrote: On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:04:43 -0400, Padraic Brown wrote: On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 08:24:51 -0400, "Scottishmoney" wrote: "Darren" wrote in message Scotland is not a different country(!) Tell that to a Scot, rather to his face. Quite. I wouldn't go as far to say Scotland is part of England, Though you just did! "It's not a different country" = "It's the same country", in case you're wondering. but I be interested if anyone is planning to follow Scotland's progress at the Olympics next year, or England's for that matter. I don't know. Are they planning on sending separate teams, then? I suspect the Scots and the English would follow their progress with some interest. Why? Do you think they wouldn't? Padraic. la cieurgeourea provoer mal trasfu ast meiyoer ke 'l andrext ben trasfu. |
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