Lion coins

In article ,
(Christian Feldhaus) writes:
Massimo at HOME wrote:

In 1936 Italy became an Empire and Eagle was chosen since it was one of the
most important symbols of the former Roman Empire.

But the eagle, either with or without a crown, had been on several other
Italian (kingdom) coins before. I own some of those :-)

The only other "lion" coin from Italy that I know is the 20 lire piece
issued in 1928. And of course there were quite a few Venetian coins with
the winged lion, but I am not familiar with those ...

Yes, right. The 20 lire 1928 also known as "cappellone" (big hat) or
"elmetto" (helmet)

http://incuso.altervista.org/20_lire_cappellone_ve3.php

features a good lion head (this coin is often forged, look at the letter L
of the engraver).

Also many venetian coins show the winged lion:

http://incuso.altervista.org/venezia.php

I also own two venetian thalers that show a very nice lion too.

But I was thinking to real lions, and the only coin showing real lions I am
able to remember is that one.

Ciao,
Massimo
--
Massimo at HOME
a href="http://incuso.altervista.org"Monete Italiane/a

In article ,
Reid Goldsborough writes:
The eagle on ancient Greek coins typically served as an attribute or
symbol of Zeus. Do you know if it served the same purpose regarding
Jupiter on ancient Roman coins? I'd guess yes but haven't looked into

Sorry, no expertise in ancient coins.
--
Massimo at HOME
a href="http://incuso.altervista.org"Monete Italiane/a

Billy wrote:

"The "Lion Gate" at Mycenaea (sp) Greece is the oldest piece of monumental
sculpture in Europe, it dates from 1,200 b.c, I think.

I've seen it, it's very nice."


I've seen it too. My notes say that it dates from 1,300 BC and that it's the
first royal heraldic symbol. I noticed that the Lion Gate was included in the
Mycenae party scene in the movie Troy. They got -that- right.

;-)


Anka ---- Mycenae: going up was easier than going down!

Massimo wrote:

"Also many venetian coins show the winged lion..."


The winged lion refers to St. Mark the evangelist, patron saint of Venice,
whose body was stolen from Alexandria, Egypt and brought to Venice. Mark's
symbol is the winged lion.


Anka ---- La Serenissima ;-)

Ankaaz wrote:

The winged lion refers to St. Mark the evangelist, patron saint of Venice,
whose body was stolen from Alexandria, Egypt and brought to Venice. Mark's
symbol is the winged lion.

Sure, but ... in those years, cultural heritage was never "stolen". It
was "generously donated", or "saved from the barbarians", maybe
"transferred" ;-)

Christian (who just came back from an interesting exhibition about the
Treasures of the Kremlin ... "stolen"? Phhh g.)

On Sat, 22 May 2004 12:14:59 -0400, Reid Goldsborough
wrote:

There are many, many other coins throughout history that depict lions.
More than depict eagles?

Inspired by one of the participants in Moneta-L, who did the same with
the ANS' collection, I search through eBay for the frequency of eagles
vs. lions on coinage. Eagles win.

They dominate U.S. coinage, of course, so I didn't bother searching
here. A search of world coins on eBay indicated that, at one
particular point in time, 493 auction items had the word "eagle" in
their title or description, while 159 had "lion," and a similar search
of ancient coins indicated that 305 items had "eagle," while 190 had
"lion."

On Sun, 30 May 2004 21:40:58 -0400, Reid Goldsborough
wrote:

On Sat, 22 May 2004 12:14:59 -0400, Reid Goldsborough
wrote:

There are many, many other coins throughout history that depict lions.
More than depict eagles?

Inspired by one of the participants in Moneta-L, who did the same with
the ANS' collection, I search through eBay for the frequency of eagles
vs. lions on coinage. Eagles win.

They dominate U.S. coinage, of course, so I didn't bother searching
here. A search of world coins on eBay indicated that, at one
particular point in time, 493 auction items had the word "eagle" in
their title or description, while 159 had "lion," and a similar search
of ancient coins indicated that 305 items had "eagle," while 190 had
"lion."

I just finished reading you Numismatists piece on the first lion coins.
It was a nice summary of the coin and thoughts surrounding the origin.
One thing I did wonder is if there is a scientific way to settle the dates
of these coins. Usually coins are used to date the rest of an
archeological site but it would be nice to know when some coins were
minted. Wouldn't some sort of radioactive isotope testing be feasible, if
not affordbale or practical?

On Sun, 30 May 2004 22:34:47 -0500, Jorg Lueke
wrote:

I just finished reading you Numismatists piece on the first lion coins.
It was a nice summary of the coin and thoughts surrounding the origin.
One thing I did wonder is if there is a scientific way to settle the dates
of these coins. Usually coins are used to date the rest of an
archeological site but it would be nice to know when some coins were
minted. Wouldn't some sort of radioactive isotope testing be feasible, if
not affordbale or practical.

Radioactive isotopes -- carbon dating -- doesn't work with coinage. If
memory serves (and it might not!), it works only with organic matter
such as previous lifeforms. Maybe somebody more knowledgeable about it
can provide details.

The dating of these coins is still up in the air, but one aspect to
all this that at least is clearer in my mind after going through all
the literature and the numismatic, archeological, and historical
evidence is that there's a very good probability that these first
coins, Lydian Lions, were struck under King Alyattes, who reigned for
about half a century, from c. 610-561 BC (scholars differ on the exact
years of his reign). Often these coins are attributed to "uncertain
king," but early dating of these coins, to as early as 700 BC, no
longer makes sense.

On Mon, 31 May 2004 00:05:44 -0400, Reid Goldsborough
wrote:


Radioactive isotopes -- carbon dating -- doesn't work with coinage. If
memory serves (and it might not!), it works only with organic matter
such as previous lifeforms. Maybe somebody more knowledgeable about it
can provide details.

Carbon dating wouldn't work because there's no Carbon in most coins.
However many elements do have radioactive isotopes. But it could be that
any that exist in coinage have a half life too long or too short to
measure the time periods in question.