If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
45 RPM Mechanisms - Which ones were better?
Which 45RPM mechanisms were the best (e.g. AMI, ROWE, Seeburg,
Wurlitzer)? I guess it makes sense to do this by era: (1950s, 1960s, and 1970s and beyond). I'm curious what people think of the Wurlitzer OMT 45 RPM mechanism on their new box. The following is my own newbie observation: 1950s - I think the Seeburgs were clearly superior to their competition. I personally like the 100R which has that 'Robbie-the-Robot' look to it. An examination of the 100R seems to show good workmanship, but my exposure to jukeboxes is limited (hence the call for other people's views). |
Ads |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
70s & 80s you can't beat Rowe
|
#3
|
|||
|
|||
|
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Philip Nasadowski wrote:
snip excellent summary! That was very thorough and apt...you know your stuff, I think! My only comments are these: A) I believe Seeburg Selectomatic mechansims have a reputation of being easy on records. The used records you get with the spiral scuffs on the playing grooves didn't live in a Seeburg! B) The Wurlitzer Simplex mechanism (pre-war to the 1100) is not only a beautiful mechanical assembly when it is cleaned up and sitting in a stand on the workbench, it is fascinating to watch in action. They should have put a glass door down lower so you could see the gubbins work! My dad has a P-12, they don't make 'em like that any more... --Bob ================================================== ===================== Bob Ellingson Halted Specialties Co., Inc. http://www.halted.com 3500 Ryder St. (408) 732-1573 Santa Clara, Calif. 95051 USA (408) 732-6428 (FAX) |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Philip Nasadowski wrote:
In article , (Fred) wrote: Which 45RPM mechanisms were the best (e.g. AMI, ROWE, Seeburg, Wurlitzer)? I guess it makes sense to do this by era: (1950s, 1960s, and 1970s and beyond). 50's: For 'tight' construction and good operation, the Seeburg wins, hands down. It's simply a very well built mech, but complex. The stack type Wurlitzers are dead last, IMHO. The 1500 looks *cool*, but is a nightmare. The Wurlitzer 1700 and onward mechs were good, but not near the Seeburg in terms of general tightness and quality (IMHO). The rack - type AMI's look rube goldberg, but work well, the magazine types are a bit nicer, but the selection system's a bit bonkers on them. Rock-Olas are like sloppy AMIs. They work, though. That sounds good to me. 60's: Again, Seeburg leads. AMI's were getting progrssively better, and the Rowe-AMI ones are nice for small size. The Rock-Olas got lighter, but sill look like high school shop projects, IMHO. Wurlitzer didn't change much until that god awful one they use now replaced the old one. I think this is where Rock-Ola was better than AMI, but then it could be that I worked on more Rock-Ola's so I knew them better? 70's: Seeburg again. AMI comes of age, Rock-Olas started getting slicker too. Wurlitzers looked ugly, and were real hacks. I don't know WHAT they were trying to acomplish with that mech. Still think Rock-Ola's were better than AMI's. And the Wurlitzers, it really boggles my mind why so many people think it was a bad mech. They work well and are pretty easy to repair. Maybe it's just because everyone made me fix the wurlitzers, I was one of the few that learned them? I'd put Wurlitzer just below the Seeburgs and above AMI and Rock-Ola. 80's: Seeburg's dead AMI's are pretty much it, though Rock-Olas are close. The most recent AMI mechs are about all you could expect, though they get awfully sloppy when they're worn out. Sure sign is a gripper that slams the record back in, or records that mysteriously rearrange themselves. Now maybe this is where I lack the knowledge, but from the late 70's through the 80's Rock-Ola's sucked. As soon as they got all the bugs worked out of one electronic system, they changed it a new style with new problems that took a few more years to fix. And when the main plug going to the computer started to warp, you had to put "clamps" on the plug to keep them working! Maybe looking at them now, with all the modifications already done to them they are OK. But back then when they were new, "intermittent" was Rock-Ola's middle name. I've seen NSMs, they look like Seeburg knockoffs with German manufacturing applied. Other than occasional slipping turntable drives, I hear they're pretty decent. Yes, pretty reliable boxes. Cheaply made, but very functional. I'm curious what people think of the Wurlitzer OMT 45 RPM mechanism on their new box. It's been quite a few years since Wurlitzer made any 45RPM jukes, so they are certainly nothing new. They are however, very, very dependable boxes. Not always the easiest to work on, but they hardly ever break! I do repairs on one that is in a busy diner on free play for the past 15? years. I never kept track of the plays on it, but it has to be in the millions. Except for an intermittent problem it had recently that took me a while to track down, it went on average over 1 year between service calls. Actually they did call more often, but I don't count replacing light bulbs and installing a new needle a break down. And like I said, this is in a busy diner and it's on free play! It gets used heavy! -- Tony |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Seeburgs are pretty reliable through all the decades they were made.I have
friends that have Seeburgs and never have problems with them.They just keep happily chugging away.I don't know about AMI's since I haven't worked on any or know anyone personally that has one.I've heard them play at bars and they sound damn good even though they wouldn't win a looks contest they still look better than some of those 70's Wurlitzers.They had one of those 57' T bird NSM 45 jukeboxes for sale at a local flea market.I think I saw a guy working on the mech 5 times before it sold.Kept having problems with the ribbon cable going to the mech.Now maybe this is where I lack the knowledge, but from the late 70's through the 80's Rock-Ola's sucked. As soon as they got all the bugs worked out of one electronic system, they changed it a new style with new problems that took a few more years to fix. And when the main plug going to the computer started to warp, you had to put "clamps" on the plug to keep them working! Maybe looking at them now, with all the modifications already done to them they are OK. But back then when they were new, "intermittent" was Rock-Ola's middle name. Well I've had a 1985 Rockola Supersound II for 9 years and the only thing I did was replace some electrolytic caps and motor grommets,lubed it up and replaced the needle when I bought it.Since then only an occassional lube and new lights.Those small blinking bulbs are notorious for burning out,though.Only had one intermittent problem a month ago.Intermittently wouldn't pick up my key presses.Cleaning the edge connector contacts cured it,no clamping required.This was my first jukebox and still gets played often even though I have other jukeboxes.It's been moved several times and even spent a year in storage when I was temporily living where I had no room for it.This was my only jukebox and the bug hadn't bit hard yet but cleaning it up and putting records back in it was fun and the idea struck to get another box came when I saw an ad for a 50's box in a local classified.Turned out to be a 1957 Wurlitzer 2150 and from the moment I laid eyes on and bought my first visible mech jukebox the bug bit me hard.Bought ,fixed and sold some later boxes.Now I just bought another box for me:A Seeburg C. I don't do this for a living just a hobby but these are my observations so far.The Wurly mech is pretty reliable so far but the Rockola gets played more often.The Wurly's fun to watch and looks good but the Rockola's got it in the sound department. |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Jjmscf wrote:
Seeburgs are pretty reliable through all the decades they were made.I have friends that have Seeburgs and never have problems with them.They just keep happily chugging away.I don't know about AMI's since I haven't worked on any or know anyone personally that has one.I've heard them play at bars and they sound damn good even though they wouldn't win a looks contest they still look better than some of those 70's Wurlitzers.They had one of those 57' T bird NSM 45 jukeboxes for sale at a local flea market.I think I saw a guy working on the mech 5 times before it sold.Kept having problems with the ribbon cable going to the mech.Now maybe this is where I lack the knowledge, but from the late 70's through the 80's Rock-Ola's sucked. As soon as they got all the bugs worked out of one electronic system, they changed it a new style with new problems that took a few more years to fix. And when the main plug going to the computer started to warp, you had to put "clamps" on the plug to keep them working! Maybe looking at them now, with all the modifications already done to them they are OK. But back then when they were new, "intermittent" was Rock-Ola's middle name. Well I've had a 1985 Rockola Supersound II for 9 years and the only thing I did was replace some electrolytic caps and motor grommets,lubed it up and replaced the needle when I bought it.Since then only an occassional lube and new lights.Those small blinking bulbs are notorious for burning out,though.Only had one intermittent problem a month ago.Intermittently wouldn't pick up my key presses.Cleaning the edge connector contacts cured it,no clamping required.This was my first jukebox and still gets played often even though I have other jukeboxes.It's been moved several times and even spent a year in storage when I was temporily living where I had no room for it.This was my only jukebox and the bug hadn't bit hard yet but cleaning it up and putting records back in it was fun and the idea struck to get another box came when I saw an ad for a 50's box in a local classified.Turned out to be a 1957 Wurlitzer 2150 and from the moment I laid eyes on and bought my first visible mech jukebox the bug bit me hard.Bought ,fixed and sold some later boxes.Now I just bought another box for me:A Seeburg C. I don't do this for a living just a hobby but these are my observations so far.The Wurly mech is pretty reliable so far but the Rockola gets played more often.The Wurly's fun to watch and looks good but the Rockola's got it in the sound department. Maybe I got all the dud Rock-Ola's? Or maybe you got one of the few good ones? Who knows. As far as the sound, well a juke that old may not sound as good as one much newer, but IMHO, put a 1985 Wurlitzer next to a 1985 Rock-Ola, and the wurlitzer wins hands down. Actually, that goes for most any year jukes, the Wurlitzers were almost always on top with sound quality. -- Tony |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
In article ,
Tony Miklos wrote: Maybe I got all the dud Rock-Ola's? Or maybe you got one of the few good ones? Who knows. The newer ones aren't that bad. The 30's 40's 50's? YUCK. I've never heard a good sounding Rock-Ola, though IMHO, the Seeburg A is the worst of the era. The Rock-Olas just seem to always be missing something, though. As far as the sound, well a juke that old may not sound as good as one much newer, but IMHO, put a 1985 Wurlitzer next to a 1985 Rock-Ola, and the wurlitzer wins hands down. Actually, that goes for most any year jukes, the Wurlitzers were almost always on top with sound quality. Put a 2204 next to an AMI F I have, the AMI blows the Wurlitzer out of the basement, easily. Though I might have a bad Cobra I'd put the AMI F and G near the top of the list, though Wurlitzer and Seeburg had some nice ones too. I've heard that the V is amazing, some of the early stereo Seeburgs are real nice. Seeburg, AMI and some Wurlitzers used magnetic pickups, Rock-Ola and other Wurlitzers used the less good ceramic types. |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
IMHO, the seeburg was king until they left...but that R-84 or so
onward rowe was pretty damn good. I've parted out probabally 75 of those and I only found 2 or 3 that were worn to the point of abusing records or causing major problems at all. A tonewheel as means of 'finding itself" is a hell of an idea..just look at how ABS works on cars! Tony P |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Referring to Rockolas again.Maybe you never heard a Supersound on up Rockola.I
have to admit the 1972 Rockala 450 I fixed for my boss just doesn't have the punch that some other jukeboxes have.But this Supersound is awesome.The highs aren't muddy though you don't want it as crisp as your home stereo to give away all the scratchiness of a 45 that's been played 100 times or more.The bass is just awesome.It's got separate chamber for the woofers.The only problem is my Rockola is on the wall next to the kitchen and when I play"Oye Como Va" by Santana it seems to hit the resonant frequency of the pots and pans under the sink...lol None of the U.S. made Wurlitzers ever used a magnetic only the German ones.Rockola started using a magnetic cartridge made by Shure I think in the late 60's.The 50's mono Wurlitzers used the Cobra.If you ever hope to get better sound out of them they need to be converted to ceramic or magnetic though magnetic is more difficult with tone arm balance and tripping at the end of the record and will require a preamp.Seeburg clearly treats records better though.The most played records in the Rockola have the classic swirl marks on them.I would assume AMI would do it too since it grips the record and plops it down on a spinning turntable like the Rockola.The old Wurlitzers 50's and 60's and Seeburgs only handle the edge and the label. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|