What did the 1804 silver dollar at ANA auction sell for?

I believe it sold sometime last evening.

Nooker wrote:
and just to head off the confusion, when you add the 15% buyers fee, it sold
for $1,207,500.

$1,050,000 x 15% = $157,500, for a total of $1,207,500.

Mr Kagin made $176,000 on this coin in two years. B&M made $157,500 in two
minutes.


Wouldn't there have been a 10% seller's fee as well, meaning Kagin made
only $71,000 and B&M made $262,500?

On 4 Aug 2003 10:06:33 -0700, (Tom DeLorey) is alleged to
have written:

Seller's fees are usually waived for a marquee consignment such as an
1804 Dollar. Helps promote the rest of the sale, you know.
.
The funny thing is, I don't remember anybody even mention it during
the convention. The 1913 Nickels completely stole the show.
.
Tom DeLorey


Of all the available 1804 dollars, that one is probably the least desirable. It
has the look of a weakly struck EF40 coin, despite the PR58 label that PCGS saw
fit to dispense.

Frankly, I'm a little suprised it broke $1M. I wonder if it was a hidden
buyback.

Bruce

Bruce Greenblatt wrote in message ...
Nooker wrote:
and just to head off the confusion, when you add the 15% buyers fee, it sold
for $1,207,500.

$1,050,000 x 15% = $157,500, for a total of $1,207,500.

Mr Kagin made $176,000 on this coin in two years. B&M made $157,500 in two
minutes.


Wouldn't there have been a 10% seller's fee as well, meaning Kagin made
only $71,000 and B&M made $262,500?


Maybe. Sometimes for very high priced coins the consignor negotiates
a lower sellers fee than the standard 10%. Auction companies usually
have to bend
on the sellers fee if they want coins like this in their auction, if
they
don't bend there is usually another company that will. There is also
a
prestige factor in having something like an 1804 dollar in an auction
so
that is another incentive to bend on the sellers fee.

On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 15:50:27 -0400, Reid Goldsborough is
alleged to have written:

On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 17:16:49 GMT, (Bruce
Hickmott) wrote:

Of all the available 1804 dollars, that one is probably the least desirable. It
has the look of a weakly struck EF40 coin, despite the PR58 label that PCGS saw
fit to dispense.

I agree. The 1804 dollar sold at the ANA show, the Adams-Carter
specimen, may be currently graded PF-58 by PCGS, but in the past it
was graded PF-50 by NGC and before that PF-45 by PCGS. PCGS contends
that it graded the coin as it most recently did because previous
graders didn't account for its weak strike. But a more likely
explanation is that this coin is just another example of how the
grading services treat coins with provenance more leniently than other
coins and how their grading standards are anything but consistent over
time.


PCGS says they will adjust the grade to the percieved value, thus the number of
nice AU's in MS63 or so slabs. So they're saying that this 1804 should be valued
at the AU58 level. Kinda ridiculous, given that the popluation is just 15 coins
of all varieties. And this is one coin where the plastic doesn't matter. The CC
for the 1804 dollars is clear, there's no real debate as to which coin goes
where. Call it AU or XF, or put it in an ACG65 slab, it's not suddenly going to
become nicer than the others.

If there was ever a case that made me suspect that PCGS offered a grade to put
the coin in their plastic, this would be it. Marketing rules....

Bruce

Remember the absolutely laughable MS-65 PCGS offered to put the heavily
bagmarked 1933 $20 into???
..
Subject: What did the 1804 silver dollar at ANA auction sell for?
From: (Bruce Hickmott)
Date: 8/4/2003 3:34 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id: 3f2ebeea.26578668@newshost

On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 15:50:27 -0400, Reid Goldsborough
is
alleged to have written:

On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 17:16:49 GMT, (Bruce
Hickmott) wrote:

Of all the available 1804 dollars, that one is probably the least
desirable. It
has the look of a weakly struck EF40 coin, despite the PR58 label that PCGS
saw
fit to dispense.

I agree. The 1804 dollar sold at the ANA show, the Adams-Carter
specimen, may be currently graded PF-58 by PCGS, but in the past it
was graded PF-50 by NGC and before that PF-45 by PCGS. PCGS contends
that it graded the coin as it most recently did because previous
graders didn't account for its weak strike. But a more likely
explanation is that this coin is just another example of how the
grading services treat coins with provenance more leniently than other
coins and how their grading standards are anything but consistent over
time.


PCGS says they will adjust the grade to the percieved value, thus the number
of
nice AU's in MS63 or so slabs. So they're saying that this 1804 should be
valued
at the AU58 level. Kinda ridiculous, given that the popluation is just 15
coins
of all varieties. And this is one coin where the plastic doesn't matter. The
CC
for the 1804 dollars is clear, there's no real debate as to which coin goes
where. Call it AU or XF, or put it in an ACG65 slab, it's not suddenly going
to
become nicer than the others.

If there was ever a case that made me suspect that PCGS offered a grade to
put
the coin in their plastic, this would be it. Marketing rules....

Bruce




TomDeLorey
..
"Standard Oil" What they use to keep the grading standards slippery!

No matter how you grade the coin, it still had two, seven-figure bids. The
first for an even million bucks, the second that won the 1804 dollar for a
total buyer's price of $1,207,500.

Amon Carter, Sr. was no dummy. In addition to being the long-time publisher of
the Fort Worth Star-Telegram newspaper (hometown of B. Max Mehl), he was a
co-founder of American Airlines and a major figure for decades in Texas
business, civic and philanthropic projects.

I believe a few ol' timers in rcc may recall personal meetings with him (and
Amon Carter Jr.).

Also, the buyer of this coin is no numismatic dummy either, Kevin Lipton of
Beverly Hills.

-donn-

Nospamdonn wrote:

No matter how you grade the coin, it still had two, seven-figure bids. The
first for an even million bucks, the second that won the 1804 dollar for a
total buyer's price of $1,207,500.

Amon Carter, Sr. was no dummy. In addition to being the long-time publisher of
the Fort Worth Star-Telegram newspaper (hometown of B. Max Mehl), he was a
co-founder of American Airlines and a major figure for decades in Texas
business, civic and philanthropic projects.

I believe a few ol' timers in rcc may recall personal meetings with him (and
Amon Carter Jr.).

Also, the buyer of this coin is no numismatic dummy either, Kevin Lipton of
Beverly Hills.

-donn-

Anytime the owners of those 15 fantasy pieces want to get into arguments
over who has the best one, I guess they are entitled. They paid the
price of admission. It is a little discouraging to know you could sell
a vital organ and not get close to the underbidder, though.

;-)

Alan
'not talking about his Bust'

On 05 Aug 2003 01:05:44 GMT, nowspam (TomDeLorey) is alleged
to have written:

Remember the absolutely laughable MS-65 PCGS offered to put the heavily
bagmarked 1933 $20 into???
.

Yes. I do disagree with that grade, but Ira (who certainly has no axe to grind
on the subject) has stated that the photos make that bagmark look much worse
than it really is and that PCGS has slabbed coins like that 65 before.



TomDeLorey
.
"Standard Oil" What they use to keep the grading standards slippery!

10-W58? :-)


Bruce

On 05 Aug 2003 02:08:19 GMT, (Nospamdonn) is alleged to have
written:

No matter how you grade the coin, it still had two, seven-figure bids. The
first for an even million bucks, the second that won the 1804 dollar for a
total buyer's price of $1,207,500.


True.

Amon Carter, Sr. was no dummy. In addition to being the long-time publisher of
the Fort Worth Star-Telegram newspaper (hometown of B. Max Mehl), he was a
co-founder of American Airlines and a major figure for decades in Texas
business, civic and philanthropic projects.


Never said he was. I said this was the least desirable 1804 dollar. Take it in
context, I'd happily settle for date with the least desireable Miss USA winner!
:-).

I believe a few ol' timers in rcc may recall personal meetings with him (and
Amon Carter Jr.).


Yes.


Also, the buyer of this coin is no numismatic dummy either, Kevin Lipton of
Beverly Hills.


I half suspected a hidden buyback at that price. I'm sure he'll enjoy the coin
and I'd bet he'll make at least a little money when he sells.

Bruce