Sick of Dealers and Coins

This summer, a good friend and ethics professor at a prominent law
school invited me up for a weekend. During this visit he commented
that it had been quite awhile since I had mentioned coins to him. I
had been an avid collector. I told him the truth.

"I am sick of dishonest, unethical and greedy people. So I have sold
almost all my coins and am leaving the hobby. It is just too hard on
the psyche"

After a great deal of debate, I made an offer to him. The ANA
convention would be in Baltimore in a few weeks and I offered to prove
to him that finding an honest dealer was harder in the convention
floor than in any court. The bet was on.

We met up at the convention, and I explained what we had to do. I had
two coins, slabbed by well-known services, that we would remove from
the slabs and try to sell. Each would be in an Eagle holder. Our
story was that these were my father's coins, and he was now in a home
and needed some money. One would be an 1892-O Half Eagle graded AU-55
(value between $1500-$2000). The second would be an 1916 Standing Lib
graded AU-58 (value between $4500-$5100).

Over six hours we approached 40 dealers (one of which posts here on
occasion - do you remember us?). We were lied to (10 dealers pointed
to the price of an 1892 Half Eagle on their grey sheet instead of the
New Orleans coin). 6 dealers gave us prices for the 1917 Standing
lib. What did the others do?

Almost every one asked us how much we wanted. One dealer even had
similarly grade 1916 in his case - he purposely laid several papers
over that area of the case while we chatted.

Almost every dealer undergraded these coins considerably. They used
the terms "very good" and "fine." At least 8 dealers said that they
had been cleaned. Here are the lowest and highest offers:

1892-O Half Eagle
Low offer: $250
Median offer: $650
High offer: $875

1916 Standing Lib
Low offer: $50 (offered 3 times)
Median offer: $550
High offer: $1300

Many of these dealers were good ANA members, respected, and heavy Coin
World advertisers. Not a single one of them were ethical. One
well-known dealer eyed the Standing lib for several minutes, declared
it an "extra-fine" and offered me $900.

"Are you positive about the grade?"

"Oh, yes. I've dealt with thousands of coins over the years. My
standards are very strict."

"What about grading companies?" Many of his coins were slabbed.

"They can be all over the map, but usually my grade matches theirs.
Slabbing a coin is expensive, though."

"So this coin is extra-fine, and you can give me $900 right now? How
about $1100?"

He pretends to think about it a bit. "I think I know someone who
might take this. MMmmmmmmmmmm. Okay."

"What if I told you I know this coin is actually AU, was purchased
from B&M five years ago, and is worth over 4 grand?"

If looks would kill, I'd be dead. "Everyone is entitled to their
opinion. A coin is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for
it." He had a few other choice words then had to call someone on his
cell. This dealer was the only one we confronted.

My good friend, the law profession, paid for drinks that night - and
looked ill about our day. He agreed with me - in ANY other field what
these dealers attempted would be unethical; in many cases even
criminal fraud. One man's "caveat emptor" is another man's thievery.
And I am sick of the lot of them. I just can't stand being around an
entire crowd of people all trying to rip each other off. And
certainly not any "fun." I've switched to wine tasting.

For the record, I sent the coins back through the slabbing process -
the standing lib came even back MS-63. Lol! I sold both of them -
this time letting the dealer in LA know I knew what the coins were
actually worth. The final price:

1916 Standing Lib: $5300
1892-O Half Eagle: $1600

Oh, and why did I take such a low price on the standing lib? I was
actually offered more. Because I think the grading service messed up;
in my own eyes it is a great AU, not a poor UNC. And ethically, I
could not take more. I wonder if this dealer will discount the coin
against the grade when he sells it . . .

Phil Barnhart wrote:

This summer, a good friend and ethics professor at a prominent law
school invited me up for a weekend. During this visit he commented
that it had been quite awhile since I had mentioned coins to him. I
had been an avid collector. I told him the truth.

"I am sick of dishonest, unethical and greedy people. So I have sold
almost all my coins and am leaving the hobby. It is just too hard on
the psyche"

After a great deal of debate, I made an offer to him. The ANA
convention would be in Baltimore in a few weeks and I offered to prove
to him that finding an honest dealer was harder in the convention
floor than in any court. The bet was on.

We met up at the convention, and I explained what we had to do. I had
two coins, slabbed by well-known services, that we would remove from
the slabs and try to sell. Each would be in an Eagle holder. Our
story was that these were my father's coins, and he was now in a home
and needed some money. One would be an 1892-O Half Eagle graded AU-55
(value between $1500-$2000). The second would be an 1916 Standing Lib
graded AU-58 (value between $4500-$5100).

Over six hours we approached 40 dealers (one of which posts here on
occasion - do you remember us?). We were lied to (10 dealers pointed
to the price of an 1892 Half Eagle on their grey sheet instead of the
New Orleans coin). 6 dealers gave us prices for the 1917 Standing
lib. What did the others do?

Almost every one asked us how much we wanted. One dealer even had
similarly grade 1916 in his case - he purposely laid several papers
over that area of the case while we chatted.

Almost every dealer undergraded these coins considerably. They used
the terms "very good" and "fine." At least 8 dealers said that they
had been cleaned. Here are the lowest and highest offers:

1892-O Half Eagle
Low offer: $250
Median offer: $650
High offer: $875

1916 Standing Lib
Low offer: $50 (offered 3 times)
Median offer: $550
High offer: $1300

Many of these dealers were good ANA members, respected, and heavy Coin
World advertisers. Not a single one of them were ethical. One
well-known dealer eyed the Standing lib for several minutes, declared
it an "extra-fine" and offered me $900.

"Are you positive about the grade?"

"Oh, yes. I've dealt with thousands of coins over the years. My
standards are very strict."

"What about grading companies?" Many of his coins were slabbed.

"They can be all over the map, but usually my grade matches theirs.
Slabbing a coin is expensive, though."

"So this coin is extra-fine, and you can give me $900 right now? How
about $1100?"

He pretends to think about it a bit. "I think I know someone who
might take this. MMmmmmmmmmmm. Okay."

"What if I told you I know this coin is actually AU, was purchased
from B&M five years ago, and is worth over 4 grand?"

If looks would kill, I'd be dead. "Everyone is entitled to their
opinion. A coin is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for
it." He had a few other choice words then had to call someone on his
cell. This dealer was the only one we confronted.

My good friend, the law profession, paid for drinks that night - and
looked ill about our day. He agreed with me - in ANY other field what
these dealers attempted would be unethical; in many cases even
criminal fraud. One man's "caveat emptor" is another man's thievery.
And I am sick of the lot of them. I just can't stand being around an
entire crowd of people all trying to rip each other off. And
certainly not any "fun." I've switched to wine tasting.

For the record, I sent the coins back through the slabbing process -
the standing lib came even back MS-63. Lol! I sold both of them -
this time letting the dealer in LA know I knew what the coins were
actually worth. The final price:

1916 Standing Lib: $5300
1892-O Half Eagle: $1600

Oh, and why did I take such a low price on the standing lib? I was
actually offered more. Because I think the grading service messed up;
in my own eyes it is a great AU, not a poor UNC. And ethically, I
could not take more. I wonder if this dealer will discount the coin
against the grade when he sells it . . .



I find your story hard, no, impossible to believe.

The 1916 Standing Liberty Quarter was in incredible demand at the Balto ANA,
and at large shows, the dealer knows you'll shop it around and generally will
offer you strong dollars for a desirable coin.

In a slab by one of the two top grading companies, you'll generally receive
considerably more $$ than trying to sell such coins raw as anyone in the
business knows and anti-slabbers refuse to recognize. Many dealers are
uncertain as to what final grade a slabbing company will put on a raw coin and
will protect themselves by offering on the low side of wholesale value,
estimating worst possible case from the grading companies.

As far as the gold coin, many deceptive counterfeits abound, and even if the
coin is genuine, it may have been lightly cleaned and this occurence may not be
clearly noticable on the bourse floor.

Even if a small portion of your scenario is true, I believe we have all learned
that with quality coins it PAYS to get them certified. A far as your opinion
that the so-called AU standing Lib was an AU and not an unc, and then selling
at less than the going price for an AU in a reputable PCGS or NGC holder
stretches the limits of credulity. 2 months ago I sold an NGC graded 1916 AU-53
Standing Lib to dealer JH Cline for $7100 and he sold it fo $7800. It did NOT
have a full Head and was not so designated.

End of story.


Ira Stein

ospam (Ira Stein) wrote in message ...
I find your story hard, no, impossible to believe.

I don't.

On Tuesday, August 26, 2003 at 8:52:00 AM UTC-7, Ira Stein wrote:
Phil Barnhart wrote:
This summer, a good friend and ethics professor at a prominent law
school invited me up for a weekend. During this visit he commented
that it had been quite awhile since I had mentioned coins to him. I
had been an avid collector. I told him the truth.
"I am sick of dishonest, unethical and greedy people. So I have sold
almost all my coins and am leaving the hobby. It is just too hard on
the psyche"
After a great deal of debate, I made an offer to him. The ANA
convention would be in Baltimore in a few weeks and I offered to prove
to him that finding an honest dealer was harder in the convention
floor than in any court. The bet was on.
We met up at the convention, and I explained what we had to do. I had
two coins, slabbed by well-known services, that we would remove from
the slabs and try to sell. Each would be in an Eagle holder. Our
story was that these were my father's coins, and he was now in a home
and needed some money. One would be an 1892-O Half Eagle graded AU-55
(value between $1500-$2000). The second would be an 1916 Standing Lib
graded AU-58 (value between $4500-$5100).
Over six hours we approached 40 dealers (one of which posts here on
occasion - do you remember us?). We were lied to (10 dealers pointed
to the price of an 1892 Half Eagle on their grey sheet instead of the
New Orleans coin). 6 dealers gave us prices for the 1917 Standing
lib. What did the others do?
Almost every one asked us how much we wanted. One dealer even had
similarly grade 1916 in his case - he purposely laid several papers
over that area of the case while we chatted.
Almost every dealer undergraded these coins considerably. They used
the terms "very good" and "fine." At least 8 dealers said that they
had been cleaned. Here are the lowest and highest offers:
1892-O Half Eagle
Low offer: $250
Median offer: $650
High offer: $875
1916 Standing Lib
Low offer: $50 (offered 3 times)
Median offer: $550
High offer: $1300
Many of these dealers were good ANA members, respected, and heavy Coin
World advertisers. Not a single one of them were ethical. One
well-known dealer eyed the Standing lib for several minutes, declared
it an "extra-fine" and offered me $900.
"Are you positive about the grade?"
"Oh, yes. I've dealt with thousands of coins over the years. My
standards are very strict."
"What about grading companies?" Many of his coins were slabbed.
"They can be all over the map, but usually my grade matches theirs.
Slabbing a coin is expensive, though."
"So this coin is extra-fine, and you can give me $900 right now? How
about $1100?"
He pretends to think about it a bit. "I think I know someone who
might take this. MMmmmmmmmmmm. Okay."
"What if I told you I know this coin is actually AU, was purchased
from B&M five years ago, and is worth over 4 grand?"
If looks would kill, I'd be dead. "Everyone is entitled to their
opinion. A coin is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for
it." He had a few other choice words then had to call someone on his
cell. This dealer was the only one we confronted.
My good friend, the law profession, paid for drinks that night - and
looked ill about our day. He agreed with me - in ANY other field what
these dealers attempted would be unethical; in many cases even
criminal fraud. One man's "caveat emptor" is another man's thievery.
And I am sick of the lot of them. I just can't stand being around an
entire crowd of people all trying to rip each other off. And
certainly not any "fun." I've switched to wine tasting.
For the record, I sent the coins back through the slabbing process -
the standing lib came even back MS-63. Lol! I sold both of them -
this time letting the dealer in LA know I knew what the coins were
actually worth. The final price:
1916 Standing Lib: $5300
1892-O Half Eagle: $1600
Oh, and why did I take such a low price on the standing lib? I was
actually offered more. Because I think the grading service messed up;
in my own eyes it is a great AU, not a poor UNC. And ethically, I
could not take more. I wonder if this dealer will discount the coin
against the grade when he sells it . . .

I find your story hard, no, impossible to believe.
The 1916 Standing Liberty Quarter was in incredible demand at the Balto ANA,
and at large shows, the dealer knows you'll shop it around and generally will
offer you strong dollars for a desirable coin.
In a slab by one of the two top grading companies, you'll generally receive
considerably more $$ than trying to sell such coins raw as anyone in the
business knows and anti-slabbers refuse to recognize. Many dealers are
uncertain as to what final grade a slabbing company will put on a raw coin and
will protect themselves by offering on the low side of wholesale value,
estimating worst possible case from the grading companies.
As far as the gold coin, many deceptive counterfeits abound, and even if the
coin is genuine, it may have been lightly cleaned and this occurence may not be
clearly noticable on the bourse floor.
Even if a small portion of your scenario is true, I believe we have all learned
that with quality coins it PAYS to get them certified. A far as your opinion
that the so-called AU standing Lib was an AU and not an unc, and then selling
at less than the going price for an AU in a reputable PCGS or NGC holder
stretches the limits of credulity. 2 months ago I sold an NGC graded 1916 AU-53
Standing Lib to dealer JH Cline for $7100 and he sold it fo $7800. It did NOT
have a full Head and was not so designated.
End of story.

Ira Stein
Yes, coin dealers appear to be worse than those of cars.

On 26 Aug 2003 08:15:44 -0700, (Phil Barnhart) is alleged to
have written:

We met up at the convention, and I explained what we had to do. I had
two coins, slabbed by well-known services, that we would remove from
the slabs and try to sell. Each would be in an Eagle holder. Our
story was that these were my father's coins, and he was now in a home
and needed some money. One would be an 1892-O Half Eagle graded AU-55
(value between $1500-$2000). The second would be an 1916 Standing Lib
graded AU-58 (value between $4500-$5100).


Which services graded which coins?


Over six hours we approached 40 dealers (one of which posts here on
occasion - do you remember us?). We were lied to (10 dealers pointed
to the price of an 1892 Half Eagle on their grey sheet instead of the
New Orleans coin). 6 dealers gave us prices for the 1917 Standing
lib. What did the others do?


Which dealers said what?


Many of these dealers were good ANA members, respected, and heavy Coin
World advertisers. Not a single one of them were ethical. One
well-known dealer eyed the Standing lib for several minutes, declared
it an "extra-fine" and offered me $900.


Who said this?


For the record, I sent the coins back through the slabbing process -
the standing lib came even back MS-63. Lol! I sold both of them -
this time letting the dealer in LA know I knew what the coins were
actually worth. The final price:


That's very fast turnaround from PCGS/NGC, especially given that the coin were
raw at the show. Which service turned them around so fast? Who's the LA dealer?

1916 Standing Lib: $5300
1892-O Half Eagle: $1600

Oh, and why did I take such a low price on the standing lib? I was
actually offered more. Because I think the grading service messed up;
in my own eyes it is a great AU, not a poor UNC. And ethically, I
could not take more. I wonder if this dealer will discount the coin
against the grade when he sells it . . .

You were offered more and you turned it down? That may not have been wise, for
an AU58 to go to an MS63 is NOT uncommon, PCGS has said they will "upgrade" a
nice AU to MS-something because thats where nice AU's sell. Nice AU's bring more
than ugly mint state.

It's a great story, but with the claims presented you need a few more specific
facts to back it up. certainly, the dealer who offered you too much for the 1916
will remember you, and likely the dealer you took to task as well. If you can
back this up with names, this is the sort of story that should be mailed to Remy
Bourne, the new head of the ANA consumer protection group.

As it stands, you might send it to Gary Lewis. Since it doesn't mention any
names or grading services, he might respond in a general way.

Bruce

Bruce Hickmott responds to Phil barnhart's post:

Which services graded which coins?
Which dealers said what?
Who said this?
That's very fast turnaround from PCGS/NGC, especially given that the coin
were
raw at the show. Which service turned them around so fast? Who's the LA dealer?

You were offered more and you turned it down? That may not have been wise,
for
an AU58 to go to an MS63 is NOT uncommon, PCGS has said they will "upgrade" a
nice AU to MS-something because thats where nice AU's sell. Nice AU's bring
more
than ugly mint state.

It's a great story, but with the claims presented you need a few more specific
facts to back it up. certainly, the dealer who offered you too much for the
1916
will remember you, and likely the dealer you took to task as well. If you can
back this up with names, this is the sort of story that should be mailed to
Remy
Bourne, the new head of the ANA consumer protection group.

As it stands, you might send it to Gary Lewis. Since it doesn't mention any
names or grading services, he might respond in a general way.

Bruce

Bruce, you were too kind. The story is 90% bullcrap.
$900 for an AU 1916 SLQ? This poster loves to stir up the pot with stories of
unethical dealers. I doubt he'll ever mention names here or elsewhere, where
such mention could come back and bite him, and bite him hard! I might expect
some kernel of truth had he shopped those two coins at a flea market, but at
the Baltimore ANA?


Ira Stein

In article ,
(Edward McGrath) writes:


I was in a coin store 2 years ago when two dealers / owners ripped a guy
off by paying the guy a little above melt value for a gold coin worth
$4000 so I know there are dishonest dealers in the coin business. I'm
not saying all dealers are dishonest because I don't no all the dealers.
In my experiences I equate the coin dealers to predators waiting to
pounce down on unsuspecting newbies. Your only protection from these
dealers / predators is knowledge. If your as kwowledgable as the dealer
then and only then can you negoiate a fair price for your buys and
sells.

Your comment is as vague as the original story. My (non-numismatic) brother in
law still thinks that I'm trying to rip him on a couple of commems (Grant and
Monroe) that he swears are worth $6500. I've seen 'em and they're polished,
complete with hairlines and high gloss. The Grant might retail for $75 and the
Monroe around $20. I've offered him $80. He's told me several times that "a
guy" at a flea market told him 10-15 years ago they were worth the $6500 and
that he'd pay $5500 for 'em. "The guy" surprisingly lost interest in his
collection and doesn't want them, of course, but my BIL still wants $5K for
'em. They'll bury them with him, before he sells 'em for less than $4K, he
sez, and he's told the story probably several hundred times. It's one of the
reasons I'm very skeptical when I hear stories like yours and the original
poster's. Some are vicious fabrications meant to damage the coin business, and
others are simple misunderstandings and/or exagerations. I wish I had a nickel
for everyone who shows me a AG/Good coin worth $5 and points to the MS65 column
in their redbook and wants $750 for it.

I wasn't even going to comment on that original posting because it's so
transparently phony that I can't see ANYONE believing it. I'd guess someone had
a good time writing that bit of fiction and even added that cute "upgrade" coup
de grace in their enthusiasm. I, too, agree that not all dealers are honest and
not all offer fair prices when offered high value coins. But for 40 dealers at
any major show, or even a regional or state show to pass up a chance to handle
a "hot" and easily upgradable coin like an AU '16 SLQ is totally ridiculous. I
would have maybe bought into a couple of lowball bids from guys who didn't have
the money or just a few slimballs, but why would anyone let a deal walk where
$500+ profit is flat out guaranteed? Those coins would have never made it past
my table, and I'd have turned the profit before I left the show, probably
before I ate supper.

I'm glad a couple others spoke up and posted their thoughts.

Dondi3
DONDI enterprises. BUY, SELL, TRADE. RARE COINS & PRECIOUS METALS
Member COINNET, CSNS, ANA, INA, MOON, ILNA.

Dondi,

I have provided people lists of the dealers; I even have had a phone
conference with two of the dealers and another ANA member who emailed
me about this post. These dealers confirmed my story. My question is
that why are you so quick to call me a liar when you don't know me?
Why not email me and ask me for more information? I am not trying to
sell anything. And why are several other collectors confirming my
experience while dealers like you so quick to call me a liar, stupid,
etc? Sort of my point? You have an extremely jaded view of people.

And you prove my point:

"$500+ profit is flat out guaranteed? Those coins would have never
made it past
my table, and I'd have turned the profit before I left the show,
probably
before I ate supper."

Facing someone with two raw coins and no knowledge, you immediately
think "$500+" profit. You don't suggest that they take it down to the
end of the hall and slab it. Your IMMEDIATE reaction is to take the
money and run like crazy. You can call it whatever you want. You can
say it is the seller's responsibity. You can make any excuse you
want. But you would brag about how a couple of rubes sold you a
valuable coin because they were clueless and trusted you to provide a
fair price including a reasonable markup. Stupid people. Smart
dealer. Sort of the attitude that has worn me out as a collector.


Dondi3
DONDI enterprises. BUY, SELL, TRADE. RARE COINS & PRECIOUS METALS
Member COINNET, CSNS, ANA, INA, MOON, ILNA.

"Phil Barnhart" wrote in message
om...
Dondi,

I have provided people lists of the dealers; I even have had a phone
conference with two of the dealers and another ANA member who emailed
me about this post. These dealers confirmed my story. My question is
that why are you so quick to call me a liar when you don't know me?
Why not email me and ask me for more information? I am not trying to
sell anything. And why are several other collectors confirming my
experience while dealers like you so quick to call me a liar, stupid,
etc? Sort of my point? You have an extremely jaded view of people.

And you prove my point:

"$500+ profit is flat out guaranteed? Those coins would have never
made it past
my table, and I'd have turned the profit before I left the show,
probably
before I ate supper."

Facing someone with two raw coins and no knowledge, you immediately
think "$500+" profit. You don't suggest that they take it down to the
end of the hall and slab it. Your IMMEDIATE reaction is to take the
money and run like crazy. You can call it whatever you want. You can
say it is the seller's responsibity. You can make any excuse you
want. But you would brag about how a couple of rubes sold you a
valuable coin because they were clueless and trusted you to provide a
fair price including a reasonable markup. Stupid people. Smart
dealer. Sort of the attitude that has worn me out as a collector.


Phil, I have read and enjoyed this thread from the start. I, too, have a
difficult time believing that your experiences were as bad as you portrayed,
for at least two reasons. First, I have never had a lowball experience with
a dealer, other than one brief experience with what I believe is called a
"vest pocket" dealer, who worked his deals out of his home.

Second, like several others, I find it hard to believe that the coin show
dealers in your story would still be in business with the type of antics you
say they were trying to pull. If the story implied a small percentage
tried to lowball you, I could accept that, concluding that the few
lowballers would not stay in business very long.

I took an Isabella quarter, ICG AU58 to the St. Louis Silver Dollar show
last October. I showed it to 5 or 6 dealers. Every dealer I showed it to
thought it was overgraded by ICG, and I agreed, feeling the same way before
I ever entered the hall. Half of the dealers did not want to make an offer,
simply saying they were not interested. A couple of dealers made offers
that I could refuse, and did, but they were not what I would call low ball
offers. One dealer said he thought the coin was not an AU58 and asked me
what I thought the coin graded. I told him I didn't think it was a 58, but
it was better than a 50 and that's as close as I would come to a grade. He
asked me how much I wanted, I told him a figure and he took it. I don't
consider a single dealer at this show as a bad experience. I also sold a
couple of ancients for a friend at the same show, offered about half of
retail, with the explanation that he had abundant supply, which was evident
from his case. I took the offer happily and do not consider the offer as
unfair or lowball.

I have had several (maybe a half dozen) other good experiences at smaller,
local coin shows, getting what I thought were strong offers and taking them.

I just have a hard time imagining a dealer offering $50 on a coin that is a
solid $4,000 coin; not in a hall full of dealers that would reveal my offer
as way out of line. I can't imagine a dealer offering $50 on a coin when
even an offer of $2,000 would represent a guaranteed profit and the
potential for tremendous profit. Why would any business man let that kind
of profit walk away from the table by making a stupid offer. That goes
against logic, and my personal experiences.

So, I understand why your story is getting strong resistance. It is just
hard to believe. Bill

In article ,
(Phil Barnhart) writes:

Dondi,

I have provided people lists of the dealers;

GREAT. Then posting it here will be no problem for you, will it?

I even have had a phone conference with two of the dealers and another ANA
member who emailed me about this post.These dealers confirmed my story.

Good, we can use their names to verify your story also. We're all fascinated
as to why those lowlifes suddenly decided to admit to their crimes. Who are
they?


My question is that why are you so quick to call me a liar when you don't know
me?

If someone told you the Moon had just fell into the ocean, how well do you feel
you'd have to know before deciding he was a liar?

Why not email me and ask me for more information?

If I think you're lying in your posting, why do think I'd believe your email?

I am not trying to
sell anything. And why are several other collectors confirming my
experience

Good, tell us those "other collectors" who'll confirm your experience. We're
all ears.

while dealers like you so quick to call me a liar, stupid,
etc? Sort of my point? You have an extremely jaded view of people.

pot...kettle...


And you prove my point:

"$500+ profit is flat out guaranteed? Those coins would have never
made it past
my table, and I'd have turned the profit before I left the show,
probably
before I ate supper."

Well, let's see:

1892-O half eagle...AU bid $1000
1916 standing lib...AU $5250, MS63 $8250.

Now if I had offered a little back of bid, say 10% back or so (not likely on a
hot coin like the quarter, especially in a roomful of salivating competition,
I'd have offered between $5626 and $8125, depending on my grading skills. If
I'm wrong about the quarter, I stand to lose $5K. In return I'm making a 7% to
9% markup. I'm anxious to hear what a "real consultant" thinks would be a more
reasonable fee for grading, authenticating and making the sale.

Facing someone with two raw coins and no knowledge, you immediately
think "$500+" profit. You don't suggest that they take it down to the
end of the hall and slab it.

Yeah, that's a good idea. Get him and his $500 profit away from my table and
past the other 300 dealers. Some of those guys can *smell* a 16 SLQ from
across the street.

Your IMMEDIATE reaction is to take the
money and run like crazy. You can call it whatever you want. You can
say it is the seller's responsibity. You can make any excuse you
want. But you would brag about how a couple of rubes sold you a
valuable coin because they were clueless and trusted you to provide a
fair price including a reasonable markup. Stupid people.

Now look at what you wrote! Above you took me to task for doubting your tale,
and now you divine that I'd tell my friends that my customers are "rubes,
clueless and stupid" Jaded...? See why I said, "pot...kettle..."?

Smart dealer. Sort of the attitude that has worn me out as a collector.


Ya know, I think you're right. We're all better off with you tasting wine.
Judging by your claims, you've already started.

I wish you great success with your new hobby.

Dondi3
(coin collecting won't kill your liver)


DONDI enterprises. BUY, SELL, TRADE. RARE COINS & PRECIOUS METALS
Member COINNET, CSNS, ANA, INA, MOON, ILNA.