Michael Adams Officially Declared "Troll"

Before I reply, I presume you've opted to post because I dared to quote from
your review of Reggie Oliver's book and because I dared to point out that
John Pelan - a man who you have claimed publicly as a friend - had
inappropriately raked over old ashes. Very well. If you want to limit how
your reviews are quoted, please just say so. With regard Pelan's off-topic
slight, well, that stands for itself: he *was* looking for trouble.

Now, in response to your points:


"Ramsey Campbell" wrote in message
. ..
"Chris Barker" wrote in
message ...

Pelan recently suggested that I must be a child molester in the
alt.books.ghost-fiction forum because I had published a chapbook
entitled
PLAGAIRISM & PEDERASTY: SKELETONS IN THE JAMESIAN CLOSET, despite the
fact
that such literary luminaries as Julia Briggs, Colin Wilson, Michael Cox
and
Anthony Powell have all expressed similar concerns about M R James'
interest
in adolescent men / boys. Indeed, James' own friends harboured similar
concerns, believing that his Lewis Carroll-style novel THE FIVE JARS
'lifted
the lid' on the 'repressed inner workings' of James' mind.

But no. Pelan brushes all this aside because one of his best mates makes
a
living out of selling M R James books...

Which mate is this? You aren't usually so shy of naming names.

Chris Roden. Of Ashtree Press. The man who flew into a dreadful rage at my
discovery of the source tale that James plagiarised to create the tale we
know now as The Ashtree, and who sought to spike it by a) posting it freely
online and b) attacking every aspect of argument. Although it has to be
said, he made a terribly embarrassing faux pas, such was his haste to attack
the chapbook.

In any
case, I don't see why you're implying that your chapbook would harm
their sales. Did Lewis Carroll's sales figures diminish once people
started speculating about his interest in young girls? For that
matter, wasn't LOLITA Nabokov's best-selling book by far?

No, that won't do.

It's as plain as a pikestaff that All Hallows and G&S have been championing
James as some sort of clean-cut icon for ten years or more, and that they
strongly oppose *any* suggestion as to James' very probable interest in
young adolescent men.

And Carroll didn't write about seducing young idiot girls and then slitting
their throats. James did.

And didn't
you complain online (quite mistakenly, in my view) that the British
Film Institute had had Kim Newman suggest that the film WHISTLE AND
I'LL COME TO YOU had a sexual subtext in order to increase sales of
their DVD?

I have twice explained my reasonning behind this to you in offline emails.
If you aren't willing to see sense via that medium, how do you expect to do
so now?

Yes, I did. The Newman sleeve notes were riddled with errors - as Rosemary
Pardoe herself pointed out. Many of James' tales have sexual connotations -
unfortunately the case to be made for WHISTLE is weak.


You've skipped over the point that the title of your chapbook
unambiguously leads people to assume James was a child molester. I
know he's dead, but the insult is the same.


No I haven't. And anyway, it's not an insult, it's an argument.

The word pederast does most certainly not refer to molestation. It is
derived from the Greek erastes, which refers to love between a man and a
man, or more especially, a man and a boy. Chambers Dictionary definition.
They've been around for quite some time.

*You* are leaping to the conclusion that molestation is implicit. I find
that odd.


As I recall, you made it public that you wouldn't be sending review
copies of the chapbook to ALL HALLOWS (the journal of the Ghost Story
Society, edited by Barbara and Christopher Roden) or GHOSTS AND
SCHOLARS (the site devoted to the work of M. R. James, run by Rosemary
Pardoe, who I take to be someone else who has offended you).

No, that's untrue. I did in fact offer to send Rosemary Pardoe a review
copy. She did not take up my offer.

I wouldn't give Chris Roden the time of day. He is an extremley disagreeable
man who has gone to quite incredible lengths to sabotage my various
publications, as you well know. He posted dozens of outrageously vindictive
messages about the Reggie Oliver book even *before* it had been published.

The only thing that Roden deserves is retirement. Quickly, if possible.

It seems
odd to publish a deliberately controversial essay (originally
announced for the second issue of your journal)

That's a Chris Roden argument e.g. to imply that subscribers are getting
shortchanged. But we've replaced it with a *new* Jamesian article, and added
two new stories. So subscribers will be getting a better publication.

and then refuse to
send it to publications where it would be discussed in knowledgable
detail.

Ahem, I did offer. But Roden ain't getting a damn thing.

Time and time again, Roden has demonstrated extreme prejudice. Did you not
see the posts? The one where he literally screamed for answers to his
questions? I thought he was having a breakdown.

Seriously, anyone can access the ghost-fiction site to see that shortly
before the launch of the Reggie Oliver book, Roden exploded with prejudice,
attacking the book again and again, just as he has done with everything we
have ever done.

And why? Because we pointed out that his Conan Doyle book - which he had
very happily sent us gratis for review - was over priced. Ever since that
turning point, when your close friend Roden realised that we couldn't be
bought and would review things criticially, he has savaged everything we
have ever put out - or else stolen it e,g, the Gilchrist project.

The posts and emails prove this. He happily offered review copies right up
until he received a bad review.

Since you cite them as authorities, have Michael Cox and Julia
Briggs received copies from you? I should be interested to learn what
they thought.


Oh, get a life Ramsey! Just because someone refers to this or that authority
in an essay or a discussion, it doesn't mean that they have to go rushing
off to seek approval before using their views as a launchpad for deeper or
wider analysis. It is enough that I refer to published references by Briggs
and Cox which can be independently verified.

You are clutching at straws. I respect what you've done, who you are, but
you are way off target here. If every researcher had to liase with everyone
mentioned in their essay or article who was alive prior to or even after
publication, then the system would break down and fall apart.

Despite your odd comment that I am unreticent in naming names (I note that
you didn't chastise John Pelan for naming Peter Haining or Richard Dalby
when it suited him to do so - but then again, as you have said, he is your
friend), I won't name the people who have since agreed with me that there
*is* something deeply disturbing about James' work. A couple are genre
people known to you. Why, when I dared refer anonymously to the fact that
another editor had agreed with me that James had plagairised Craik's tale
THE THREE BLACK CATS, your friend Roden immediately demanded of David
Longhorn whether it was in fact he who had said that, in a brazen and
unsympathetic fashion that was wholly unneccessary.

It is obvious that there is much witch-hunting and handbagging going on in
this sad little genre. I am saddened to see you stoop to same, despite the
loyalty that you seem to be displaying. The Oliver book should be judged on
its merits, as should the James chapbook. Instead of which - at the
obsessive insistence of those whom you ally yourself with - they have been
savaged online by rival publishers in the ugliest and most unprofessional of
manners - usually by parties who have yet to even see or read the
publication concerned!

Finally, I note that you clip out all references to John Pelan's inception
of the disgusting little site Hoppy Toadly, and various other comments that
reflect poorly upon his antics. Good friend he may be to you, but absolute
weasel he is to others.

Huffily,

Chris Barker

PS.

"Had M.R. James, for example, guessed that (according to Colin Wilson), a
'respected English critic has suggested that [his] stories ....are full of
symbols of repressed homosexuality' (The Strength To Dream, 1962), he might
paradoxically have written with far more inhibition, or not have written at
all."

Julia Briggs, "Nights Visitors, The Rise & Fall Of The English Ghost Story"

(Permission to type this email not obtained from Miss Briggs)

"paghat" wrote in message

That Henry was homosexual is easily shown (see the essay anthology HENRY
JAMES AND HOMO-EROTIC DESIRE), but not easily shown for MRJ. But as for
pedarasty, evidence for THAT sort of activity, for either James, is in the
main imaginary.

-paghat the ratgirl


Imaginary, is it?

"Had M.R. James, for example, guessed that (according to Colin Wilson), a
'respected English critic has suggested that [his] stories ....are full of
symbols of repressed homosexuality' (The Strength To Dream, 1962), he might
paradoxically have written with far more inhibition, or not have written at
all."
Julia Briggs, "Nights Visitors, The Rise & Fall Of The English Ghost Story"

"It is impossible to judge whether at some deeply repressed level he was
aroused by small boys."
Julia Briggs, Penguin Encyclopedia Of Horror & The Supernatural

"His [James'] affairs with boys were fascinating to watch."
Anthony Powell in his autobiography

There was "something a little unsatisfactory in all the old 'uns sitting
over wine and cigars and having the little boys amuse them. So the old
Cardinals might ring for dancing girls!"
H.E. Luxmore (from Cox's AN INFORMAL PORTRAIT)

Nathaniel Wedd, a friend and contemporary of James', claimed in his diary
that in THE FIVE JARS (a Lewis Carroll style fantasy about boys) that James
had partly lifted the lid off his mind, revealing its "repressed workings".
Source: Cox's AN INFORMAL PORTRAIT

Jo Grimond, another contemporary, claimed that numerous were the occasions
when James would ply thirteen year old charges with port and wine, before
sending them home drunk at a very late hour.
Source: Cox's AN INFORMAL PORTRAIT


With regard James' own tales:

COUNT MAGNUS - a 'beautiful man' has his face sucked off
LOST HEARTS - children have their hearts torn out whilst alive by a scholar
THE MEZZOTINT - central premise is child abduction and murder
HAUNTED DOLLS HOUSE - two children are murdered in their beds as a voyeur
looks on
MARTIN'S CLOSE - sub-intelligent girl taken advantage of sexually, then has
throat cut to silence her talk

Numerous are the examples of misogyny e.g. the hairy mouth with teeth in
CASTING THE RUNES.

And most disturbingly of all, in THE RESIDENCE AT WHITMINSTER, we have a
sexually alluring young boy (he has seduced housemaids) who is found
"clinging desperately to the great ring of the door, his head sunk between
his shoulders, his stockings in rags, his shoes gone, his legs torn and
bloody" after being attacked by a Jamesian demon.

The case for arguing that James was sexually attracted to boys is very
strong. It's perfectly obvious that he was. Whether or not he consumated his
affairs is less certain. But even if he didn't, the powerful imagey in his
tales suggests that he wanted to.

We live in an enlightened post-Freudian society where such speculation is
perfectly valid. And, as numerous objective sources tell us, homosexual
predation in public schools was rife one hundred years ago. James, it need
hardly be mentioned, spent his entire life within the confines of an
all-male academia.

Very far from imaginary. Though I can understand how someone who has
frequently banged on about how much she despises me might want to argue so,
especially when it is borne in mind that that person has a close personal
friendship with a Jamesian authority who strongly opposes all such
speculation. But if one sticks to issues - references, theories, ideas -
rather than allow personal disagreement to cloud one's judgment, then the
only reasonable conclusion that can be arrived at is that James was sexually
attracted to young adolescent males. It's what gives his stories that dark
edge.





"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the fearsome teacher.
"Oh, sir! Of extra Latin lessons in your room," replied the timid
creature.

I think that's what Paghat just said. Great quotes though, keep up the good
work.

Randy

--

"Chris Barker" wrote in
message ...

The case for arguing that James was sexually attracted to boys is very
strong. It's perfectly obvious that he was. Whether or not he consumated
his
affairs is less certain. But even if he didn't, the powerful imagey in his
tales suggests that he wanted to.

"Chris Barker" wrote in message ...

(a great deal)

Huffily,

Chris Barker

Dear me, what a torrent! I wish you had taken the time to calm down
and respond to the points I made rather than ones you imagine I did.

Ramsey Campbell

"Ramsey Campbell" wrote in message
...
"Chris Barker" wrote in
message ...

(a great deal)

Huffily,

Chris Barker

Dear me, what a torrent! I wish you had taken the time to calm down
and respond to the points I made rather than ones you imagine I did.

Ramsey Campbell


Hardly a torrent. I simply endeavoured to respond to each of your points in
a thorough fashion. You prefer to clip posts, and often only to respond to
the less trickier points. In fact, one perspective might be (mine, perhaps)
that I dealt competently with your queries, hence your branding it a
'torrent' by way of dismissive evasion. Whatever the truth, I think it
unjust of you to berate me simply because I had the courtesy to respond to
all your comments.

All this really means is that I think you are evasive, and you think me
verbose. Hardly life-or-death I grant you, but I am glad that it has been
civilised after what has gone on before.

This rec.books is on the whole a pleasant group and I don't wish to spoil
the party for others. If you do wish to respond to my post properly, do feel
free to email me direct. In the meantime, I rhetorically hope that you did
receive my forwarded email validating that G&S were in fact offered a review
copy, but that they opted not to take it up?

Chris Barker
THE HAUNTED RIVER

Over Five Years Selling At ABE
www.abebooks.com

Small Press Publisher
www.users.waitrose.com/~hauntedriver

Review of "The Dreams Of Cardinal Vittorini" by Reggie Oliver (Published
July 2003)

"This, the first collection by the playwright nephew and biographer of
Stella Gibbons, could almost be a lost book from the days when the English
ghost story was generally restrained yet contained nuggets of horror. The
style is urbane and witty, the authorial personality cultured and observant,
and the roots of the tales are in the great tradition of the genre."

Ramsey Campbell

"Chris Barker" wrote in message ...
"Ramsey Campbell" wrote in message
...
"Chris Barker" wrote in
message ...

(a great deal)

Huffily,

Chris Barker

Dear me, what a torrent! I wish you had taken the time to calm down
and respond to the points I made rather than ones you imagine I did.

Ramsey Campbell


Hardly a torrent. I simply endeavoured to respond to each of your points in
a thorough fashion. You prefer to clip posts, and often only to respond to
the less trickier points. In fact, one perspective might be (mine, perhaps)
that I dealt competently with your queries, hence your branding it a
'torrent' by way of dismissive evasion. Whatever the truth, I think it
unjust of you to berate me simply because I had the courtesy to respond to
all your comments.

All this really means is that I think you are evasive, and you think me
verbose. Hardly life-or-death I grant you, but I am glad that it has been
civilised after what has gone on before.

This rec.books is on the whole a pleasant group and I don't wish to spoil
the party for others. If you do wish to respond to my post properly, do feel
free to email me direct. In the meantime, I rhetorically hope that you did
receive my forwarded email validating that G&S were in fact offered a review
copy, but that they opted not to take it up?

Chris Barker
THE HAUNTED RIVER

Over Five Years Selling At ABE
www.abebooks.com

Small Press Publisher
www.users.waitrose.com/~hauntedriver

Review of "The Dreams Of Cardinal Vittorini" by Reggie Oliver (Published
July 2003)

"This, the first collection by the playwright nephew and biographer of
Stella Gibbons, could almost be a lost book from the days when the English
ghost story was generally restrained yet contained nuggets of horror. The
style is urbane and witty, the authorial personality cultured and observant,
and the roots of the tales are in the great tradition of the genre."

Ramsey Campbell

True enough, I snip material I'm not replying to, since I assume
people who are interested in the entire discussion can read the
thread. If you'd like me to take up every point you made in your reply
to me, I'll be happy to oblige. Here are a couple of points to be
going on with. I wonder why you find it odd that I associate pederasty
with molestation, since your own web site still gives the definition

"pederasty: sexual relations of a male with a male, esp. a boy"
(Chambers English Dictionary)

which certainly sounds as if it could be under age to me; in any case,
the 1993 edition of the Chambers dictionary puts it more bluntly:

"pederasty: sexual relations, specif. anal intercourse, between a man
and a boy"

On the same web site you declared you wouldn't be sending GHOSTS AND
SCHOLARS (or ALL HALLOWS) a review copy of the booklet on the grounds
that 'these organisations have stifled adult speculation about M. R.
James and his work because of their vested business interests. Their
relation upon James as the foundation stone for their very existence
has undermined objective critical assessment in these important
areas.'
If you subsequently thought better of one of them, so be it. I'm
afraid I haven't seen the email you say you forwarded to me to prove
it. I feel bound to point out that ALL HALLOWS published a very
substantial and balanced review of the issue of your journal WEIRDLY
SUPERNATURAL.

I fear I can't accept your invitation to "respond properly" offline to
your original posting, since by "properly" I think you mean in a way
you and only you are allowed to judge acceptable - much as you
describe my disagreement with you over Kim Newman as my not being
"willing to see sense". Strange, really, since I wasn't arguing for or
against Kim's view this time - just reminding you that you described
it as a ploy to sell more DVDs. What were you saying about evasiveness
again?

In article ,
(Ramsey Campbell) wrote:


snip

What the hell does this have to do with book collecting?

Please take this off-line and handle it through e-mail. If you think
that others are interested in this discussion, set up a mailing list.

Scot Kamins
--
Collecting the Modern Library 1917-1970
Modern Library Collecting Website at:
http://www.dogeared.com

Scot Kamins wrote in message ...
In article ,
(Ramsey Campbell) wrote:


snip

What the hell does this have to do with book collecting?

Please take this off-line and handle it through e-mail. If you think
that others are interested in this discussion, set up a mailing list.

Scot Kamins

By gum, that should get rid of me. I wasn't here too long for
everybody, was I? Regulars will know whether Mr Kamins often throws
his weight about if what other people are discussing doesn't interest
him. Myself, if I didn't find a thread interesting I would simply
ignore it, but I expect his method works.

Ramsey Campbell

In article ,
(paghat) wrote:

In article ,
(Ramsey Campbell) wrote:

Scot Kamins wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Ramsey Campbell) wrote:


snip

What the hell does this have to do with book collecting?

Please take this off-line and handle it through e-mail. If you think
that others are interested in this discussion, set up a mailing list.

Scot Kamins

By gum, that should get rid of me. I wasn't here too long for
everybody, was I? Regulars will know whether Mr Kamins often throws
his weight about if what other people are discussing doesn't interest
him. Myself, if I didn't find a thread interesting I would simply
ignore it, but I expect his method works.

Ramsey Campbell

Scott occasionally jumps the gun judging who's a fly to be shooed away,
but I hope you stick around, & if you do, you'll even come to appreciate
Scott.

-paghat the ratgirl


I don't want him to go away. I just want the TOPIC to go away.

Scot Kamins
--
Collecting the Modern Library 1917-1970
Modern Library Collecting Website at:
http://www.dogeared.com

In article ,
(Ramsey Campbell) wrote:

Scot Kamins wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Ramsey Campbell) wrote:


snip

What the hell does this have to do with book collecting?

Please take this off-line and handle it through e-mail. If you think
that others are interested in this discussion, set up a mailing list.

Scot Kamins

By gum, that should get rid of me. I wasn't here too long for
everybody, was I? Regulars will know whether Mr Kamins often throws
his weight about if what other people are discussing doesn't interest
him. Myself, if I didn't find a thread interesting I would simply
ignore it, but I expect his method works.

Ramsey Campbell

Scott occasionally jumps the gun judging who's a fly to be shooed away,
but I hope you stick around, & if you do, you'll even come to appreciate
Scott.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/