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Rowe JAO-200 Bandstand selection stopping problem



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 29th 03, 09:52 AM
KLR
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On 7 May 2003 21:23:22 -0700, (Rick Force)
wrote:

Hi all,
I still have that problem where my JAO-200 Bandstand will stop on the
correct record, but then skip to the next one...sometimes (this is a
new incarnation) quit the transfer cycle and run past several records
before stopping and playing. I've been watching the detent assy. when
this happens and it looks to be de-energizing when the skipping
happens. So, it seems to be a sw. problem (they are all new and I
thought adjusted right). Where do I look? The 2 stopping/ side chg.
sws on the scan unit or the one at the detent pawl assy? Could the
coil be going out? Thank you, Rick.



cam switch 3 failing does this. Also you can make the stopping switch
(on the rotating plate behind the search unit) slightly more sensitive
by adjusting the little actuating screw if the cam switch isn't the
problem. 1/4 of a turn at a time until the problem goes away should do
it. Only once I have found it to be the stopping switch however -
every other time its been CS3

-----------

All this old stuff has been coming back to me lately - as 4 JEL
machines and a tropicana have found their way into my workshop for
complete overhauls.

Done 2 fully so far - and it is truly amazing how reliable you can
still make them and how there are parts around still - even after 40
years - considering the relatively primitive (by todays standards)
technology of that time. I think that they had some incredibly clever
people design that system at the time
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  #2  
Old June 29th 03, 09:52 AM
KLR
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Default Rowe JAO-200 Bandstand selection stopping problem

On Sun, 11 May 2003 10:34:55 -0400 (EDT),
(Ten--Pin-) wrote:

Re-check the switches AND the wiring on the Stop Switch Assy. Where the
wires are soldered to the commutator board on the back of the stop
switch assy, the wire can break away from the connection point although
a quick glance may not reveal this. Occasionally the wire will break
internally but the outer insulation will appear to be intact. These
wires flex slightly each time a selection is made and the stop sw. assy.
stops at the selected pin.

Also, if I recall, one of the cam switches acts as an interlock sw. to
prevent the magazine from scanning after the mech. goes into the
transfer cycle. check this cam switch and that it is properly adjusted.
As the cam shaft bushings wear slightly after many cycles of operation
there may be just a slight amount of "play" in the centering of the cam
switch shaft in the bushings. This would create an intermittent
condition if one of the switches is very "marginally" adjusted.

You mentioned that you replaced all of the microswitches ? Even if you
bought the switches as brand new, how long were they sitting in a stock
room before you got them. Check the suspected switch (es) with an ohm
meter to make sure you are getting positive low resistance contact
during the entire travel distance of the switch plunger.

That is a good point. Many times I have found brand new microswitches
refuse to work at all in some rowe mechanism positions. Seems that
some makers seem to put a protective film on the contacts to stop
corrosion etc - and it usually is "burnt" off when they are first used
with power on them. Seems too that the current used in some of the
rowe circuits is too low to do this however.

Even saw it on some of the old high current pinball flipper switches
too - but the only way to get it off was to file it off with them

What we would do with micro switches is simply connect the switch
across the terminals of a common 9v battery and click it a few times.
Worked well every time to remove the coating and switch would work
fine in rowe applications from then on. I wouldn't attempt to use a
bigger battery (such as 6v lantern battery or car battery - as this
would likely burn out the contacts and destroy the switch.

If the original poster suspects this problem - he could do this in the
machine (with the power off) with no need to remove the suspect
switches.

Another item worth investigating would be to check the operation of the
" Play Control Relay" located near where the cabinet harness plugs into
the mech in the lower front left corner of the mech. When the prblem
occours, does the play control relay de-energize or stay energized. The
stop switch micro on the stop sw. assy controls the operation of this
relay ( amoungst other things ).


  #3  
Old June 29th 03, 09:52 AM
KLR
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On Mon, 12 May 2003 03:34:53 GMT, "Don Lanway"
wrote:

Forty years hence, we'll (hopefully, I'll be in my eighties) still be making
these run.. even if we have to make switches... or motor parts...

I recall saying the same 10 years ago specifically about the old
continentals - and basically all of the electro mechanical stuff
including pinballs etc, and commented to my colleagues at the time
that it was the only stuff that in the long term future worth keeping
as collectable as it can always be kept working as long as you can
make metal parts, gears and so on. (maybe not needles though). Gears
can be often sourced through clock repair suppliers or custom made to
order, and motor brushes can be made too to your spec. As long as
there are brush motors around in common use - I would say these items
will be obtainable.

BUT! The newer machines, with custom chips, or just central control
computers... who's gonna manufacture just a handful of chips for the repro
market? Hmm? The Seeburg SMC series is already falling victim to
obsolescence and the SCD series is close behind as the Sony players die off.
Hell, some transistors are getting hard to find, and exact subs aren't
available in some cases...

Seeburg stuff is pretty rare in Australia, so I haven't come across
the problems or solutions for them, but I agree - the CD jukebox is
not likely to become a long term collectors item - (if you want it
actually working) as the players will be almost impossible to obtain
or rebuild in the future.

It's only real chance of survival into the future lies in MP3 type
conversion kits, but then it won't be original, and it will be a big
letdown with machines that have a visible mechanism, unless you go to
the trouble of wiring up the mech to lower a CD to the player and
supply voltage to the "spin" motor of the dead CD player to make the
disc turn just for decorative purposes while the MP3 provides the
actual music.

As for solid state 45 type boxes - making up modern microcontroller
based systems to substitute for the dead boards shouldn't be a big
problem if there is the demand and market to make their manufacture
and design worthwhile. I have looked into it on several occasions for
the early Rowe types (that had that memory module where the 7407 chip
dies) but never arranged anything as I since sold off the machines in
question. (I do have access to facilities for professional design and
manufacture of such an item through one of my colleagues who
specialises in this field (though not for amusement machines
primarily)


Don't even wanna think about the way tube prices are going... and some are
already made of unobtanium.... let the hacks begin *sigh*

record related parts too seem to be thinning out. We recently could
not find new N44c cartridges ANYWHERE for these jukes and had to
substitute another type that was for DJ turntable use and was not
exactly the same mountings.

Don, curmudgeon in residence
Oregon Jukebox


-----------------------------
  #5  
Old June 29th 03, 09:55 AM
KLR
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On Thu, 15 May 2003 01:42:40 GMT, Tony Miklos
wrote:

Rick Force wrote:

Thank you all for your replies I started at the bottom and 'am
working my way up top. I checked and cleaned the mech. control relay
"R" mounted in the mech frame, it is indeed droping out just after the
stop sw engages the selected pin. I then took apart the detent assy.
and it was gumed up. Now it's "squeeky clean" and moves freely and
stops more positively, but it still drops out. Now onto the cam sws.
KLR said #3, but the manual states #2 for the stop sw transfer
circuit, so i'll check both as per his instructions with a 9v battery
tomorrow and repost....it's deffinetely a sw problem (either cam 2 or
3 or the stop sw adj.). The mechanics have been taken care of. Thanks
again, Rick.


If you want a dependable juke, unplug it from the wall and replace every
micro switch in that thing. Years from now you will be happy you did.
Or you could change one this week, another in a month or so, and so on
until they are all changed. They are cheap and it's much easier to do
it all at once.



Agreed.

I have done this for the last decade or so - and you dont have any
more problems. Take extra care in the alignment - and tighten it all
down firmly so as it all stays that way......


Getting rid of these stupid slide on lugs and soldering direct to the
switch is also a must
 




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