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There ought to be a law...



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 14th 06, 09:10 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
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Default There ought to be a law...

.... against grading coins, then selling them.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1878-8-TF-MORGAN...cmd ZViewItem

The whole idea of third party grading is lost when people do this.
Sellers can just crack out coins, up the grade, and jack the price.

Since there's no law, the only thing we can do is not to buy them. I
like the PCGS rule that bars graders to sell coins while they are
working as graders. It eliminates the immediate conflict of interest.

I'm sorry the beautiful 1878-8TF is trapped in that slab. Maybe we
should start a fund to "free Liberty!" She may actually have a chance
for a real 65, IMO. Any other opinions?

Anita

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  #2  
Old March 14th 06, 10:09 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default There ought to be a law...

On 14 Mar 2006 12:10:51 -0800, "
wrote:

... against grading coins, then selling them.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1878-8-TF-MORGAN...cmd ZViewItem

The whole idea of third party grading is lost when people do this.
Sellers can just crack out coins, up the grade, and jack the price.

Since there's no law, the only thing we can do is not to buy them. I
like the PCGS rule that bars graders to sell coins while they are
working as graders. It eliminates the immediate conflict of interest.

I'm sorry the beautiful 1878-8TF is trapped in that slab. Maybe we
should start a fund to "free Liberty!" She may actually have a chance
for a real 65, IMO. Any other opinions?

Anita


IMHO, there are a few marks too many in the obverse fields and on
Liberty's cheek and neck to warrant MS-65. The reverse looks very
nice, but I'd have to see the coin for real before paying this kind of
money for it. As a reality check, I would say MS-64, but possibly only
MS-63.

Funny thing, I just received two Morgan dollars in NGC slabs today
that I bought from a seller (in Germany) on eBay with whom I have
dealt frequently in the past: one 1890-P graded MS-63, and a 1902-O
graded MS-64. The numbers on both slabs are only a couple dozen apart,
making me think that they could have well been graded the same day.
The seller was selling them for about MS-62 money each with a BIN, so
I snapped them both up. Interestingly enough, I like the MS-63 coin a
lot better than the MS-64. The MS-63 has (to me) less marks, more
luster, and while the reverse of the MS-63 coin is nearly perfect, the
MS-64 coin has fingerprints on it (reverse) as well as what might have
even been a little cleaning in the reverse fields at some point in the
past, because those parts are slightly toned today. At the point in
time when the coin was slabbed, they might have gone unnoticed. I
think I'll probably post some pictures of these two coins sometime
later this week ... it was very educational to see them side-by-side.

In general, I would only buy MS-64 or above in a PCGS or NGC slab for
the simple reason that a picture on eBay just doesn't show me what I
want to see -- unless it is an exceptionally good picture of an
exceptionally good coin. Ira's coin auctions are just about the only
ones I have ever seen that would fit the "exceptional" bill, and his
coins are usually slabbed by one of those TPGS anyway.

--
Bob Hairgrove

  #3  
Old March 14th 06, 10:43 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
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Posts: n/a
Default Coins side by side, 1 point difference

On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 22:09:22 +0100, Bob Hairgrove
did carve unto the very living rock upon which
we now stand:

Funny thing, I just received two Morgan dollars in NGC slabs today
that I bought from a seller (in Germany) on eBay with whom I have
dealt frequently in the past: one 1890-P graded MS-63, and a 1902-O
graded MS-64. The numbers on both slabs are only a couple dozen apart,
making me think that they could have well been graded the same day.
The seller was selling them for about MS-62 money each with a BIN, so
I snapped them both up. Interestingly enough, I like the MS-63 coin a
lot better than the MS-64. The MS-63 has (to me) less marks, more
luster, and while the reverse of the MS-63 coin is nearly perfect, the
MS-64 coin has fingerprints on it (reverse) as well as what might have
even been a little cleaning in the reverse fields at some point in the
past, because those parts are slightly toned today.


At a show here a couple of years ago, I had a similar experience with
a couple of Franklins. Same year, same MM, same grading service, one
a 65, the other a 66.

I had to look with a loupe to see the tiniest differences the dealer
pointed out to me. Both coins looked great but I would have been
happy with the 65 rather than the 66 since most folks I'm guessing
woulnd't be able to tell the difference w/o a loupe either. And the
only difference there was a couple of the tiniest marks in one part of
the reverse field. Other than that, I saw no differences between the
two coins.

Unfortunately, I didn't even have the funds even for the 65 that
particular day. But if I did have the $$$....


Steve
Buy the book before the coin
don't forget to *READ* the book after you've bought it!
It doesn't do anything just sitting on the shelf

(remove ATTITUDE to reply via e-mail)

It's more than you think:
http://www.premierpersonalization.com
  #4  
Old March 14th 06, 10:54 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Coins side by side, 1 point difference

On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 21:43:27 GMT, Steve Ruud
wrote:

On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 22:09:22 +0100, Bob Hairgrove
did carve unto the very living rock upon which
we now stand:

Funny thing, I just received two Morgan dollars in NGC slabs today
that I bought from a seller (in Germany) on eBay with whom I have
dealt frequently in the past: one 1890-P graded MS-63, and a 1902-O
graded MS-64. The numbers on both slabs are only a couple dozen apart,
making me think that they could have well been graded the same day.
The seller was selling them for about MS-62 money each with a BIN, so
I snapped them both up. Interestingly enough, I like the MS-63 coin a
lot better than the MS-64. The MS-63 has (to me) less marks, more
luster, and while the reverse of the MS-63 coin is nearly perfect, the
MS-64 coin has fingerprints on it (reverse) as well as what might have
even been a little cleaning in the reverse fields at some point in the
past, because those parts are slightly toned today.


At a show here a couple of years ago, I had a similar experience with
a couple of Franklins. Same year, same MM, same grading service, one
a 65, the other a 66.

I had to look with a loupe to see the tiniest differences the dealer
pointed out to me. Both coins looked great but I would have been
happy with the 65 rather than the 66 since most folks I'm guessing
woulnd't be able to tell the difference w/o a loupe either. And the
only difference there was a couple of the tiniest marks in one part of
the reverse field. Other than that, I saw no differences between the
two coins.

Unfortunately, I didn't even have the funds even for the 65 that
particular day. But if I did have the $$$....


At some point, I decided that MS-64 was probably good enough for me
until I could really tell the difference, unless I absolutely fell in
love with it. Otherwise, I would just be buying the slab and not the
coin. Haven't regretted that decision yet!

I suppose that's one of the positive things about slabbing not being
so popular here in Europe: there is a very good chance of picking up
an MS-64 or better coin for much less money than I would have to pay
for it if slabbed. However, the reverse is also true; you have to be
careful not to pay MS-63 money for MS-61.

And after seeing a few MS-64 slabs, I'm wondering if some of the raw
coins I have bought over here, which I graded myself as MS-62/63,
might not actually get a point or two higher in a slab?

--
Bob Hairgrove

  #5  
Old March 14th 06, 11:20 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default There ought to be a law...

On 14 Mar 2006 12:10:51 -0800, "
wrote:

... against grading coins, then selling them.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1878-8-TF-MORGAN...cmd ZViewItem

The whole idea of third party grading is lost when people do this.
Sellers can just crack out coins, up the grade, and jack the price.

Since there's no law, the only thing we can do is not to buy them. I
like the PCGS rule that bars graders to sell coins while they are
working as graders. It eliminates the immediate conflict of interest.

I'm sorry the beautiful 1878-8TF is trapped in that slab. Maybe we
should start a fund to "free Liberty!" She may actually have a chance
for a real 65, IMO. Any other opinions?

Anita



Well, not that I would bid on it, but I'm blocked by him anyway from
the big debacle where he blocked everyone in RCC. Anyway, he's got
make an offer available on that auction. If I could bid I would be
happy to offer $45 for the coin.
Cliff

  #6  
Old March 14th 06, 11:44 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default There ought to be a law...

On 14 Mar 2006 12:10:51 -0800, "
is alleged to have written:
... against grading coins, then selling them.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1878-8-TF-MORGAN...cmd ZViewItem

The whole idea of third party grading is lost when people do this.
Sellers can just crack out coins, up the grade, and jack the price.

Since there's no law, the only thing we can do is not to buy them. I
like the PCGS rule that bars graders to sell coins while they are
working as graders. It eliminates the immediate conflict of interest.

I'm sorry the beautiful 1878-8TF is trapped in that slab. Maybe we
should start a fund to "free Liberty!" She may actually have a chance
for a real 65, IMO. Any other opinions?

Anita


Well, I think there are too many hits on the obverse for a 65. 64,
possibly 63. Grade on the slab just happens to be on the high side of
the price break (Pcgs MS65=1400, ms64=415) for that date.

Bruce
*************************************************
ANA R162074
EAC 3606

To email me, remember that RoadRunner
and Coyote do not mix.
*************************************************
  #7  
Old March 15th 06, 01:05 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default There ought to be a law...


wrote:
... against grading coins, then selling them.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1878-8-TF-MORGAN...cmd ZViewItem

The whole idea of third party grading is lost when people do this.
Sellers can just crack out coins, up the grade, and jack the price.

Since there's no law, the only thing we can do is not to buy them. I
like the PCGS rule that bars graders to sell coins while they are
working as graders. It eliminates the immediate conflict of interest.

I'm sorry the beautiful 1878-8TF is trapped in that slab. Maybe we
should start a fund to "free Liberty!" She may actually have a chance
for a real 65, IMO. Any other opinions?

Anita


http://www.dragonswest.com/coins/acg.jpg

  #8  
Old March 15th 06, 01:22 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Coins side by side, 1 point difference

On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 22:54:55 +0100, Bob Hairgrove
did carve unto the very living rock upon which
we now stand:

On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 21:43:27 GMT, Steve Ruud
wrote:

At a show here a couple of years ago, I had a similar experience with
a couple of Franklins. Same year, same MM, same grading service, one
a 65, the other a 66.

I had to look with a loupe to see the tiniest differences the dealer
pointed out to me. Both coins looked great but I would have been
happy with the 65 rather than the 66 since most folks I'm guessing
woulnd't be able to tell the difference w/o a loupe either. And the
only difference there was a couple of the tiniest marks in one part of
the reverse field. Other than that, I saw no differences between the
two coins.

Unfortunately, I didn't even have the funds even for the 65 that
particular day. But if I did have the $$$....


At some point, I decided that MS-64 was probably good enough for me
until I could really tell the difference, unless I absolutely fell in
love with it. Otherwise, I would just be buying the slab and not the
coin. Haven't regretted that decision yet!

I suppose that's one of the positive things about slabbing not being
so popular here in Europe: there is a very good chance of picking up
an MS-64 or better coin for much less money than I would have to pay
for it if slabbed. However, the reverse is also true; you have to be
careful not to pay MS-63 money for MS-61.

And after seeing a few MS-64 slabs, I'm wondering if some of the raw
coins I have bought over here, which I graded myself as MS-62/63,
might not actually get a point or two higher in a slab?


I agree with you Bob. I've got a full collection of Franklins with
only 1 slabbed and not in the album.

I've been thinking of working on (what should be very obtainable)
MS64FBL set. 65FBL would be nice, but I'm gonna work on the Barber
series' as well so the 64FBL will have to do.

I agree with the general sentiment that is sometimes posted here that
AU58 coins look better than MS62/3 coins and are far more reasonably
priced. Funny thing eye-appeal is!

Maybe one day the slabbing companies will recognize the Ruud pedigree,
but until then I may have to give LEGS and extra $5 for attribution!

Steve
Buy the book before the coin
don't forget to *READ* the book after you've bought it!
It doesn't do anything just sitting on the shelf

(remove ATTITUDE to reply via e-mail)

It's more than you think:
http://www.premierpersonalization.com
  #9  
Old March 15th 06, 01:23 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default There ought to be a law...


wrote:
... against grading coins, then selling them.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1878-8-TF-MORGAN...cmd ZViewItem

The whole idea of third party grading is lost when people do this.
Sellers can just crack out coins, up the grade, and jack the price.

Since there's no law, the only thing we can do is not to buy them. I
like the PCGS rule that bars graders to sell coins while they are
working as graders. It eliminates the immediate conflict of interest.

I'm sorry the beautiful 1878-8TF is trapped in that slab. Maybe we
should start a fund to "free Liberty!" She may actually have a chance
for a real 65, IMO. Any other opinions?

Anita


http://www.dragonswest.com/coins/acg.jpg

  #10  
Old March 15th 06, 01:28 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default There ought to be a law...


wrote:
... against grading coins, then selling them.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1878-8-TF-MORGAN...cmd ZViewItem

The whole idea of third party grading is lost when people do this.
Sellers can just crack out coins, up the grade, and jack the price.

Since there's no law, the only thing we can do is not to buy them. I
like the PCGS rule that bars graders to sell coins while they are
working as graders. It eliminates the immediate conflict of interest.

I'm sorry the beautiful 1878-8TF is trapped in that slab. Maybe we
should start a fund to "free Liberty!" She may actually have a chance
for a real 65, IMO. Any other opinions?

Anita


http://www.dragonswest.com/coins/acg.jpg

 




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