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Away on a road trip



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 4th 05, 06:17 AM
DeserTBoB
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Default Away on a road trip

I took the "grocery getter" out for one final road trip before its
retirement (probably next year; parts are getting very scarce) and
took along 5 LeBo 24 cart cases, and just about listened to them all.
It was good, as I got to compare various releases (and versions
thereof) for quality and fidelity compared to the LP, and got some
interesting surprises. Oddly enough, both Vols I and II of Chicago
Transit Authority sounded fabulous...very low usage on these and
obvious kind handling probably preserved them. My canuck carts,
notable the Frank Zappa releases were similarly good, if a little
shrill due to having no Dolby decoding at the ready. However, some
stuff was just plain awful...notably a lot of stuff from
Warner's...shrill, midrangy equalization being the chief complaint.
Many others were just worn out, probably due to play on decks with
dirty/magnetized heads, as the peaks had audible distortion and the
top end was missing on a lot of them. One case of this was LZ II, one
of which, in a "pretty pink" Ampex, sounded like crap, while a "low
mileage" earlier white Ampex sounded OK...not good, just OK. My UK
collection, mostly Beatles and Joni Mitchell, were some of the best.

I also have CD and cassette in this car, so I did direct comparisons
there, too. Sorry, but 8 track, as a musical medium, is severely
limited by age, state of the tape art at the time, and the basic
limitation of putting such skinny tracks on slow moving tape. Cassette
from the '80s almost always sounded better due to far better tape
technology and Dolby noise reduction...except that one area where 8
track can excel due to its increased speed, the deep bottom end.
However, bass isn't everything, and the noise on 8 tracks was
obtrusive almost always on quiet works, which cassettes with Dolby "B"
were much better. So, I think when the "grocery getter" goes away,
that'll be it for me for 8 tracks in cars...it's just not worth the
hassle anymore.

One 8 track that actually sounded better than the LP: CTA I...bass
I've never heard before, and I use very top-end gear at home...was
evident, for what reason, I dunno. But those woofers really got a
workout, and so did my power amps! What's telling, though, is that
I've got two copies of this. The "high mileage" copy sounds like
crap...bass is clipped, top end is gone...generally trash. Thus is
exposed the fragility of analog tape in a consumer environment...if
the user doesn't bother or know better to clean and demag his
equipment, he ruins his tapes, just like clueless users ruin LPs with
crappy styli on cheap cartridges.

Another thing I learned is that an indispensable tool to carry is the
"double ender" cleaning cart, with the ScotchBrite capstan cleaner and
the textured paper "tape", each on a disparate end of a custom molded
cart. It kept my capstan and heads squeaky clean the whole trip. I
use a couple of drops of isopropynol on the paper tape to clean the
heads, and it did a spectacular job. It also showed, just in a week
playing about 125 tapes, the fallacy of the graphite back coating...it
winds up all over everything.

Am I "over" 8 tracks? Just about...but it was a fun project to
explore this much maligned format, if for no other reason, to see just
how good it could get. Shamefully, it was capable of better sound
than most people ever heard from it. Now, to write that article....

dB
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  #2  
Old November 4th 05, 09:43 AM
Andy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Away on a road trip

what year and make is the grocery getter ? do you have pictures of her you
can post?


"DeserTBoB" wrote in message
...
I took the "grocery getter" out for one final road trip before its
retirement (probably next year; parts are getting very scarce) and
took along 5 LeBo 24 cart cases, and just about listened to them all.
It was good, as I got to compare various releases (and versions
thereof) for quality and fidelity compared to the LP, and got some
interesting surprises. Oddly enough, both Vols I and II of Chicago
Transit Authority sounded fabulous...very low usage on these and
obvious kind handling probably preserved them. My canuck carts,
notable the Frank Zappa releases were similarly good, if a little
shrill due to having no Dolby decoding at the ready. However, some
stuff was just plain awful...notably a lot of stuff from
Warner's...shrill, midrangy equalization being the chief complaint.
Many others were just worn out, probably due to play on decks with
dirty/magnetized heads, as the peaks had audible distortion and the
top end was missing on a lot of them. One case of this was LZ II, one
of which, in a "pretty pink" Ampex, sounded like crap, while a "low
mileage" earlier white Ampex sounded OK...not good, just OK. My UK
collection, mostly Beatles and Joni Mitchell, were some of the best.

I also have CD and cassette in this car, so I did direct comparisons
there, too. Sorry, but 8 track, as a musical medium, is severely
limited by age, state of the tape art at the time, and the basic
limitation of putting such skinny tracks on slow moving tape. Cassette
from the '80s almost always sounded better due to far better tape
technology and Dolby noise reduction...except that one area where 8
track can excel due to its increased speed, the deep bottom end.
However, bass isn't everything, and the noise on 8 tracks was
obtrusive almost always on quiet works, which cassettes with Dolby "B"
were much better. So, I think when the "grocery getter" goes away,
that'll be it for me for 8 tracks in cars...it's just not worth the
hassle anymore.

One 8 track that actually sounded better than the LP: CTA I...bass
I've never heard before, and I use very top-end gear at home...was
evident, for what reason, I dunno. But those woofers really got a
workout, and so did my power amps! What's telling, though, is that
I've got two copies of this. The "high mileage" copy sounds like
crap...bass is clipped, top end is gone...generally trash. Thus is
exposed the fragility of analog tape in a consumer environment...if
the user doesn't bother or know better to clean and demag his
equipment, he ruins his tapes, just like clueless users ruin LPs with
crappy styli on cheap cartridges.

Another thing I learned is that an indispensable tool to carry is the
"double ender" cleaning cart, with the ScotchBrite capstan cleaner and
the textured paper "tape", each on a disparate end of a custom molded
cart. It kept my capstan and heads squeaky clean the whole trip. I
use a couple of drops of isopropynol on the paper tape to clean the
heads, and it did a spectacular job. It also showed, just in a week
playing about 125 tapes, the fallacy of the graphite back coating...it
winds up all over everything.

Am I "over" 8 tracks? Just about...but it was a fun project to
explore this much maligned format, if for no other reason, to see just
how good it could get. Shamefully, it was capable of better sound
than most people ever heard from it. Now, to write that article....

dB



  #3  
Old November 4th 05, 12:23 PM
66FOURDOOR
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Away on a road trip

you need to stop comparing formats in a CAR with tons of background
noise, and start comparing them in a LISTENING ROOM with a good SET
tube amp and that Marantz deck you bought (after you read my posts on
the Marantz, that is). Put your WOLLENSAK DC motored deck on Ebay for
$10 and dump it already. If you REALLY want to hear 8-tracks in their
ultimate form, get a Telex Viking or Telex changer, amped via SET
tubes- and it will open a whole new world for you. Simply blows away
cassette, which appears to be telephone answering machine quality by
comparison- and also much more depth than your CD's.

  #4  
Old November 4th 05, 01:21 PM
66FOURDOOR
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Away on a road trip

DB wrote: Am I "over" 8 tracks? Just about...but it was a fun project
to
explore this much maligned format, if for no other reason, to see just
how good it could get. Shamefully, it was capable of better sound
than most people ever heard from it. Now, to write that article.... "



You can never be "over" 8-tracks ! Anyone that grew up with them and
had any appreciation for music, still has them and keeps their original
set. Kids that hear them actually like them. The market is ripe
today, for the format to be reintroduced on the consumer level, albeit
with improvements- i.e. double sided tape splices and modern high-tech
pads that last indefinitely. If someone took a Telex or Akai or JVC or
Marantz deck and back engineered it with improvements, eliminate the
belt drive, and use an AC motor- the format would take right off again-
as a home audiophile/nostalgia alternative.

Notice how Ford made their new Thunderbirds and Mustangs look like the
old ones from the 1950-60's ? Pontiac reintroduced the GTO ? Mopar
reintroduced the Hemi Charger ?

There will always be a market for 8-tracks- too many people liked them
for them to fade away just yet- and more youngsters are discovering the
format for the first time every year.

  #5  
Old November 4th 05, 01:56 PM
lennon fan
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Posts: n/a
Default Away on a road trip


Away on a road trip

Group: alt.collecting.8-track-tapes Date: Thu, Nov 3, 2005, 9:17pm
(EST-3) From: (DeserTBoB)
I took the "grocery getter" out for one final road trip before its
retirement (probably next year; parts are getting very scarce) and took
along 5 LeBo 24 cart cases, and just about listened to them all. It was
good, as I got to compare various releases (and versions thereof) for
quality and fidelity compared to the LP, and got some interesting
surprises. Oddly enough, both Vols I and II of Chicago Transit Authority
sounded fabulous...very low usage on these and obvious kind handling
probably preserved them. My canuck carts, notable the Frank Zappa
releases were similarly good, if a little shrill due to having no Dolby
decoding at the ready. However, some stuff was just plain
awful...notably a lot of stuff from Warner's...shrill, midrangy
equalization being the chief complaint. Many others were just worn out,
probably due to play on decks with dirty/magnetized heads, as the peaks
had audible distortion and the top end was missing on a lot of them. One
case of this was LZ II, one of which, in a "pretty pink" Ampex, sounded
like crap, while a "low mileage" earlier white Ampex sounded OK...not
good, just OK. My UK collection, mostly Beatles and Joni Mitchell, were
some of the best.
I also have CD and cassette in this car, so I did direct comparisons
there, too. Sorry, but 8 track, as a musical medium, is severely limited
by age, state of the tape art at the time, and the basic limitation of
putting such skinny tracks on slow moving tape. Cassette from the '80s
almost always sounded better due to far better tape technology and Dolby
noise reduction...except that one area where 8 track can excel due to
its increased speed, the deep bottom end. However, bass isn't
everything, and the noise on 8 tracks was obtrusive almost always on
quiet works, which cassettes with Dolby "B" were much better. So, I
think when the "grocery getter" goes away, that'll be it for me for 8
tracks in cars...it's just not worth the hassle anymore.
One 8 track that actually sounded better than the LP: CTA I...bass I've
never heard before, and I use very top-end gear at home...was evident
snip

yes, that particular album was very well recorded, and many of the songs
are really top notch. I can live without the free form guitar bit,
tho...
Glad you enjoyed many of your better tapes, those UK carts really are
pretty good, no?
Pink shell ampex from the mid 70's always sounded like crap to me, Led
Zep is a disaster, the later black shell issues are much better IMO. I
think they were remastered.
On those pink shells, didn't they dub them at about 10,000x the normal
speed?

  #6  
Old November 4th 05, 02:53 PM
66FOURDOOR
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Away on a road trip

The free form guitar on early Chicago tape, sounds like a generic
Hendrix impersonation.

UK carts rock- definitely the upper echelon of 8-track factory recorded
sound

Pink shells- when they were new and taken care of, they sounded great.
The problem with pink shell Zep carts is, they were played to death !
It was not uncommon for someone to plug Houses of Holy, or Physical
Graf in, and let it play for about 3 times though. Zep in the early
1970's ruled, and was definitely played more than any other band of
that time.

I have a few near mint pink shell Zep carts, that sound spectacular.
Actually better and more detailed than any CD- if you listen close with
headphones.

  #7  
Old November 4th 05, 05:40 PM
DeserTBoB
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Posts: n/a
Default Away on a road trip

On Fri, 4 Nov 2005 07:56:21 -0500, (lennon fan)
wrote:

yes, that particular album was very well recorded, and many of the songs
are really top notch. I can live without the free form guitar bit,
tho...
Glad you enjoyed many of your better tapes, those UK carts really are
pretty good, no? snip


No question...UK carts are, as a rule, much superior to US
counterparts. Canadian carts tend to be better dubbed as well, and
have the advantage of Dolby "B", but the disadvantage of fragile
plastic. However, if you can open the shells without cracking the
tabs, they seem to be relatively trouble free.

Pink shell ampex from the mid 70's always sounded like crap to me, Led
Zep is a disaster, the later black shell issues are much better IMO. I
think they were remastered. snip


I agree..."pink" Ampex anything appears to sucketh mightily, as did a
lot of Ampex anything. It's obvious that Ampex was pimping thier
vaunted name in the pro market to sell inferior crap in the consumer
market, as witnessed by those awful rebadged Teac RTR machines they
sold in the '60s and '70s.

On those pink shells, didn't they dub them at about 10,000x the normal
speed? snip


So it would seem! Ampex was one of the earlier developers of high
speed duplication, and they didn't quite get it right back in the 8
track era. Done right, high speed duplication works very well, and
sometimes works better in the bass region than real time at slower
speeds. However, Ampex dupe lines for ¼" and early cassette weren't
well known for flat frequency response or low distortion....in fact,
they were lousy, which left the market wide open for Viking and others
to clean up during the cassette era. However, the old 1950s Ampex
3200 RTR dupe lines were pressed into cart pancake duplication in the
'60s and '70s, and did a better job, although they too were using high
speed duplication, recording the pancakes at 15 IPS. The 3200 lineup
I saw cranking out pancakes in the '70s using all the original Ampex
stuff, except the line amps, which were Viking, and were specifically
made for 4X duplication, as were the Nortronics heads.

dB
  #8  
Old November 5th 05, 02:33 AM
66FOURDOOR
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Posts: n/a
Default Away on a road trip

I'd have to disagree on the Canadian carts- I have had quite a few of
those yellow shell Canuck carts- they sound lousy compared to even the
USA stuff.

Nothing wrong with the early Ampex stuff either- the problem is, those
carts are among the oldest made now, so only natural for them to give
up the ghost first.

For all-around reliability, sound quality, and ease to find- an 8-track
hobbyist is well served by any 1970-80's era COLUMBIA/CBS cart. Easy
to open, stellar sound quality, and the crappy artist tapes make great
recording blanks too- after you bulk erase them.

  #9  
Old November 5th 05, 07:44 AM
DeserTBoB
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Posts: n/a
Default Away on a road trip

On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 08:40:24 -0800, DeserTBoB
wrote:

No question...UK carts are, as a rule, much superior to US
counterparts. snip


Damn...that toilet wav just played again! Must be Noodles or one of
his pals!

Flush, flush, flush your troubles away....


dB
  #10  
Old November 5th 05, 12:44 PM
66FOURDOOR
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Away on a road trip

some people just can't discuss 8-tracks in a friendly manner I guess !

 




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