FA: 1909-S VDB Lincoln Cent $1795 with no reserve

"Bruce Remick" wrote in message
news:Onm3e.98707$SF.35677@lakeread08...


"James Higby" heezerbumfrool[at]hotmail[dot]com wrote in message
...

"websurfer" wrote in message
...

"Ira Stein" wrote in message
oups.com...

"I was flattered to
hear that James Higby tailed me at a show to watch how I work!"


Even if it is a bit "scary" huh! It's almost like learning that
someone has been stalking you! I'm sure he's not a threat of any kind,
seems like a nice guy to me.

Websurfer


I know him pretty well. Wouldn't harm a flea.

Heezer

Hmmmmm. I gotta wonder about a guy who tolerates fleas. Would he ever
crack a
slab if he had to?

Bruce



I just [scratch, scratch] cracked one open this very [scratch, scratch]
morning.

James
'it must be eczema, please tell me it's eczema'

On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 16:04:32 GMT, Anita wrote:
Chuck, this thread was striking me as pointless.

Nah... if it was truly pointless, you and others wouldn't have gone to
such lengths to try to dispute it, and only indirectly. But that's
fine, I never expected the point to be accepted in the first place.

This is understandable -- the word "hype" is usually used when there
is an element of deception involved.

Sometimes, sometimes not. I'd used it in the sense of the short form
of hyperbole: exaggeration and/or excess. Could be exclamation points,
unnecessary statements of the obvious, talking up a mundane grade with
superlatives to make it sound better than it is, etc., or simple
overstating, i.e. "PCGS AU-53 but detail looks more like a 58". Here's
a bit of more elaborate grade-stretch you have to love:

"If the words on the label are more important than the coin encased
beneath the label, pass this one by. The label states that it's a
MS-63, but it's so, so close to MS-64 that if it resided in a slab
so labeled, no one would or could legitimately object."

Wait... I'm supposed to listen to the seller's verbal label, but
ignore PCGS's label? Is it "close" to MS-64, or is it "legitimately"
MS-64, to which no one *would* or *could* object? Call me nuts, but
those sound contradictory, and PCGS obviously did object and called it
63. Call it what you will, I would include this in the hype category.
When there's a rash of listings along the lines of "slab says 64 but I
insist it's only a nice 63", I may change my mind about the seller.

If there is no deception, it is only honest promotion. For example, there
is a 1895 Morgan PF 63 being offered on eBay. Part of the listing is
"The King!"

It's so hard to keep track of marketing trends... usually I hear of
the 1804 being called The King, pretty standard...

http://tinyurl.com/3vssl

But then sometimes you'll see the same source apply it elsewhe

http://tinyurl.com/3wzec

I guess the 1895 is the King! of Morgans only though, old Max Mehl
sales copy that became routine through repetition. Are there other
Morgan King!s? Is the S-VDB a King! also?

This isn't best described as hype, because the seller knows that this
is the most desired Morgan. If a coin is the king, it is totally okay to
say it. On the same note, if a coin is the key, it is totally okay to say it.
No hype, just fact.

"King" is now a *fact*? How does that work? And shouting the obvious
about key status is always hype... and yes, it's common. Anyone
spending thousands or tens of thousands of dollars on a coin isn't
going to be impressed by shouting the obvious... or at least shouldn't
be... some people have more money than brains, and I have to wonder if
these people aren't the targets. Other times, I think it's just
'bragging rights' of a seller with an ego, or trying to
establish/maintain a claim as a major player.

Semantics are important when you are trying to make an example out of
someone's manner of posting. "Hype" is derogaratory and is best
reserved for snake oil salesmen. What I think you really mean is
"promotion," which does not carry the derogaratory flavor of "hype."

No, I meant what I said, but you can perceive it as you choose. Hype,
as I used it, is a certain subtype of 'promotion'.

You didn't answer my question in another thread about if you were a
seller. Maybe you could point us to some of your wares?

Rarely, and not through eBay. Sold a scarce book (that I found at a
book sale for 10 cents) on eBay one time. Included sharp photos,
extensive info about the noted illustrator, complete description of
text contents and a literal description of the physical condition
including minor defects. Ungraded. Sold for $46, a little more than
the similar copy listed on ABE.

Chuck

Chuck writes:



Sometimes, sometimes not. I'd used it in the sense of the short form
of hyperbole: exaggeration and/or excess. Could be exclamation points,
unnecessary statements of the obvious, talking up a mundane grade with
superlatives to make it sound better than it is, etc., or simple
overstating, i.e. "PCGS AU-53 but detail looks more like a 58". Here's
a bit of more elaborate grade-stretch you have to love:

"If the words on the label are more important than the coin encased
beneath the label, pass this one by. The label states that it's a
MS-63, but it's so, so close to MS-64 that if it resided in a slab
so labeled, no one would or could legitimately object."



So now you're dissecting yet another of my listings? This time the
AU-53 3 legged Buffalo 5c? You know, I'm primarily a key-date dealer,
and I've seen and sold a lot of these. You've never seen the coin in
person and I doubt you're an expert in this coin in any sense of the
word. Yet, you enjoying lambasting me for my description. The fact is,
the coin looks like an AU-58 despite the AU-53 grade. It wouldn't make
a significant difference in the price if it were an AU-58, but the coin
has nearly full underlying luster and only a trace of rub on the high
points. The dealer I bought it from knew this as well and I paid a
premium over just a typical one, But I see you know better.

You also seem to know better regarding my high end MS63 1928 Peace
Dollar as well. I know that date quite well...do you? That coin is a
just-missed MS-64 and I've truely seen worse in MS-64 holders (but I
wouldn't buy them as such). Again, this is a premium example for which
I paid a premium price.

It has been discussed here ad nauseum that not all coins of the same
marked grade will have the same appearance, and it's not too tough to
rank them within the grade if you've got them arrayed before you.

I have no doubt that you're an educated man, Chuck, but so am I. Why
you've chosen to criticize my listings is a mystery to me. Maybe you
just like to stir the pot to see what happens. I'm not impressed,
however, and I have no intention of changing my auctions and
descriptions to meet with your approval.

This is the last post I'm going to make on this topic, so go knock
yourself out.

Ira

Do not worry Ira, he will. He tries to show everyone up, like the one
time he auctioned a book he bought for 10 cents on Ebay and got over 40
bucks. What an ego. Prehaps he should auction his ego on Ebay and he
will see what he himself is really worth. No Bids.

David

"dmzcompute" made the following stsatement:
...What an ego. Prehaps he should auction his ego on Ebay and he
will see what he himself is really worth. No Bids.

Not trying to divert the thread away from its theme, but this makes me think
of something my Dad used to say many years ago, when referring to someone
who was full of himself. Dad would say "If you could buy him for what he's
worth, and sell him for what he THINKS he's worth, you'd make a fortune."

YBB

On 2 Apr 2005 06:16:25 -0800, "dmzcompute"
wrote:

Do not worry Ira, he will. He tries to show everyone up, like the one
time he auctioned a book he bought for 10 cents on Ebay and got over 40
bucks. What an ego. Prehaps he should auction his ego on Ebay and he
will see what he himself is really worth. No Bids.

David

He's apparently fairly inexperienced on eBay, which is what I
suspected from a response I received from him on another post. Guess
we should just ignore unless he comes up with some good information on
coins.

Anita

On 2 Apr 2005 06:00:03 -0800, "Ira Stein" wrote:

That coin is a just-missed MS-64

Then why tell potential bidders emphatically and unequivocally that
"no one would or could legitimately object" to it being slabbed 64?
You see, Ira, you can go on about how many examples of x or y coin
you've seen, but it's irrelevant: the hype remains, undiminished,
because it has nothing to do with that. You have no valid response
because there isn't one.

not all coins of the same marked grade will have the same appearance

obvious and agreed...

and it's not too tough to rank them within the grade if you've got
them arrayed before you.

Yet not everyone will have the same rankings, so unequivocal
statements of PQ etc. should be avoided, IMHO.

I have no doubt that you're an educated man, Chuck, but so am I. Why
you've chosen to criticize my listings is a mystery to me.

You make it sound like it's personal, or you're some kind of random
'victim', but it's really very simple: you advertised a listing here
that had a laughable typo... and I pointed out that even once
corrected, the statement was meaningless to bidders, and I thought it
was interesting that many others here had in fact objected in the past
to similar such statements from other sellers. If you advertise your
listings in an open discussion forum, don't expect to be able to
control the discussion. I've been very evenhanded, stuck to the facts,
told you I would buy from you, and complimented you on your photos.
But, as with the example above, some of your sales pitch is
over-the-top to the point you disagree with yourself *and* PCGS in the
same sentence, you're trying so hard; how many of those coins you've
seen doesn't change that fact. And I didn't even use your name this
time, you id'd it as your own all by yourself. You could've let it go.

Maybe you just like to stir the pot to see what happens.

No. If I'd wanted to do that, there are easier ways, bigger ways, and
I could have done it long ago. You're questioning my motives in order
to divert from the content.

I'm not impressed, however, and I have no intention of changing my
auctions and descriptions to meet with your approval.

Never thought you would.

Chuck

On 2 Apr 2005 06:16:25 -0800, "dmzcompute"
wrote:
Do not worry Ira, he will. He tries to show everyone up, like the one
time he auctioned a book he bought for 10 cents on Ebay and got over 40
bucks. What an ego.

I was asked by Anita about any of my sales. That's the only thing I've
sold on eBay, and yes, it was a case where a straight informative
description did fine. No ego required... it was a lucky find. Your
response says much more about you than me.

Chuck

On Sat, 02 Apr 2005 14:45:54 GMT, Anita wrote:

He's apparently fairly inexperienced on eBay, which is what I
suspected from a response I received from him on another post. Guess
we should just ignore unless he comes up with some good information on
coins.

No, I have a feedback rating just under 300 after 7 years, mostly from
coin purchases (someone will no doubt claim now that I say this out of
'ego', even though it's fairly modest). I buy every now and then, but
have only sold the one book. I have friends that sell books, and I've
discussed eBay coin sales with a few of the coin dealers I buy from.
Just looking for any possible justification to ignore?

Maybe you could try to parse Ira's 64-not-a-64 pitch, but that would
be more challenging than simply claiming (and wrongly) that I'm
inexperienced on eBay and should therefore be ignored. 'Shoot the
messenger' is always the easy way.

Chuck