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WHAT WILL IT REALLY TAKE TO MAKE DEALERS CARE?



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 18th 10, 11:33 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Laura Sperber
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10
Default WHAT WILL IT REALLY TAKE TO MAKE DEALERS CARE?

WHAT WILL IT REALLY TAKE TO MAKE DEALERS CARE?

In my opinion, it seems hell has to freeze over or the market to end due to
shoddy coins from the lack of real self policing.

Almost two months into the PCGS Lawsuit and all I hear from other dealers is
disgust. Not disgust the right way. Many are sympathetic to the conspirators
and feel PCGS is the bad guy. The PNG thinks I am just making noise for
publictiy about them, yet they are hiding behind an internal wall of
silence. At the ANA Show, I witnessed no changes, no dealers were scared,
nothing. Sure, the coin docting issue was a topic, but no dealers cared to
step forward and say stop. More complained about "airing laundry" then
helping. What a bunch of BS. As far as I am concerned, there is s still a
horribly disgusting mentality among most wholesale dealers that they have a
right to ruin coins for profit. And my fellow retailers need to get over the
fact its ok to look the other way-it is not.

Well, I lump all of them (Non and PNG dealers) in to a "deadwood" catagory.
ANY retail dealer who does nothing about this gets lumped in too. I predict
within a year, unless the PNG really moves on his issue, they will be done
as an organziation. I also predict you won't see many of your favorite
dealers doing much business as they will be out of business.

I am tired of pointing out how the PNG has been slow to react and has done
little enforcement on coin doctoring. However, my new favorite routine is
when they now say, since a doctor is not one of our members, why should we
chase them? How would they like it if no one attended their PNG days? I
think the public is starting to be fed up and will send them a message.

Are there ANY dealers, ANY at all with ANY shred of decency or ehtics? I am
blown away how at the ANA show all the bright young dealers are doing
nothing but crackouts and a few are even becoming coin docs. This is NOT the
way to go. Why isn't the PNG teaching or demanding strict ehtics from ALL
dealers?

How can ANY retail dealer not put pressure on a coin doctor? I find it hard
to believe that save for a small handful of dealers I know of-Doug Winter,
Al Pinkall, Bill Shamhart, John Albanese are the ONLY ones speaking out with
any sincerity. Few others have been PUBLICALLY attacking the coins doctoring
situation. Why? I guess its hard when your joined at the hip to a "crackout
dealer" or coin doctor (or are related). If your town had posion in its
drinking water, wouldn't you join any legit cause to rid the problem? ALL
other retail dealers should be ashamed of themselves. I so tempted to name
names.

Ask your dealer what they are doing about this situation? If they say little
or nothing, deal with someone who does! We need MORE pressure put on the bad
guys! Dealers should be the direct warriors againts their own gone astry
peers.

I WILL PAY TO SEE THE COIN DOCTORS CAUGHT AND PUNISHED-I'M PUTTING OUT A
CONTRACT!

I have made a good living buying and selling coins. My passion is deep and I
can not stand to see any negatives hurting the hobby. I am a collector
first, dealer second. It is my strong personal opinion, coin doctors should
not be allowed to walk a bourse floor or make a living by destroying
precious rarities.

Since I am NOT a member of the PNG nor plan on becoming on-but have been so
highly critical of their lack of action, I will propose this unlikley
motivation for them:

I Laura Sperber, will donate to the ANA Young Numismatist fund ( or ANY fund
of the PNGs choosing) 1,000.00 for EVERY coin doctor the PNG identifies and
permenatley expells from their membership. If anyone wants to join me in
creating a bigger fund, please email me. This is NOT a gimmick or PR move.
I am desperate for these guys to do something NOW.

I'd LOVE to see them convict 25 of the top dealers who are coin doctors. It
would mean so much to the hobby.

THE FIGHT GOES ON

Some VERY interesting and mindblowing things will be reveald shortly from
the PCGS lawsuit. Some of it will be shocking i am told. Dealers have to
wake up NOW.

Again, my main issue is the dealers attitudes. Sure, PCGS and NGC are paid
to detect doctoring, BUT (the big BUT), its the dealers who are the
criminals in that they try to defraud the grading services by altering the
coins. The amount of dealers who think PCGS is wrong just amazes me. Only
after they read their contract with them do they say an "oh". We need to
work harder-especially the PNG to change dealers greedy attitudes. The ANA
and ALL numismatic publications need to push harder too.

I do not want to leave a good show like the ANA feeling "dirty" again. I am
hoping by this time next year, a dozen or so docs and ruthless "crackout"
dealers (mini docs-putting, haze, etc) are gone. If we do not put more
pressure on these guys now, we'll have multiples more coins ruined by this
time next year. I am sick of looking at ruined and overgraded coins!

All comments are welcome. Please email . I would
love to hear what you are doing about the coin doctoring situation.


Ads
  #2  
Old August 19th 10, 12:05 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Jerry Dennis
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,207
Default WHAT WILL IT REALLY TAKE TO MAKE DEALERS CARE?

On Aug 18, 6:33*am, "Laura Sperber" bloviated
excessively.

First she's accused of stock manipulation.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.c...fead65b9a7e8d#

Now she's complaining about the PNG. I can see this topic taking off
on a tangent, eventually going OT, with hours and hours of
entertainment contained therein. Can I get an "Oh, yeah!"?

Jerry, the Cheerleader
  #3  
Old August 19th 10, 12:34 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Mr. Jaggers[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 95
Default WHAT WILL IT REALLY TAKE TO MAKE DEALERS CARE?

Jerry Dennis wrote:
On Aug 18, 6:33 am, "Laura Sperber" bloviated
excessively.

First she's accused of stock manipulation.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.c...fead65b9a7e8d#

Now she's complaining about the PNG. I can see this topic taking off
on a tangent, eventually going OT, with hours and hours of
entertainment contained therein. Can I get an "Oh, yeah!"?


It's awfully early in the thread to invoke Godwin's Law, but what the hey.
Let's talk Schicklgruber!

James the Bellicose


  #4  
Old August 19th 10, 03:25 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Peter[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 401
Default WHAT WILL IT REALLY TAKE TO MAKE DEALERS CARE?

On Aug 18, 6:33*am, "Laura Sperber" wrote:
WHAT WILL IT REALLY TAKE TO MAKE DEALERS CARE?

In my opinion, it seems hell has to freeze over or the market to end due to
shoddy coins from the lack of real self policing.

Almost two months into the PCGS Lawsuit and all I hear from other dealers is
disgust. Not disgust the right way. Many are sympathetic to the conspirators
and feel PCGS is the bad guy. The PNG thinks I am just making noise for
publictiy about them, yet they are hiding behind an internal wall of
silence. At the ANA Show, I witnessed no changes, no dealers were scared,
nothing. Sure, the coin docting issue was a topic, but no dealers cared to
step forward and say stop. More complained about "airing laundry" then
helping. What a bunch of BS. As far as I am concerned, there is s still a
horribly disgusting mentality among most wholesale dealers that they have a
right to ruin coins for profit. And my fellow retailers need to get over the
fact its ok to look the other way-it is not.

Well, I lump all of them (Non and PNG dealers) in to a "deadwood" catagory.
ANY retail dealer who does nothing about this gets lumped in too. I predict
within a year, unless the PNG really moves on his issue, they will be done
as an organziation. I also predict you won't see many of your favorite
dealers doing much business as they will be out of business.

I am tired of pointing out how the PNG has been slow to react and has done
little enforcement on coin doctoring. However, my new favorite routine is
when they now say, since a doctor is not one of our members, why should we
chase them? *How would they like it if no one attended their PNG days? I
think the public is starting to be fed up and will send them a message.

Are there ANY dealers, ANY at all with ANY shred of decency or ehtics? I am
blown away how at the ANA show all the bright young dealers are doing
nothing but crackouts and a few are even becoming coin docs. This is NOT the
way to go. Why isn't the PNG teaching or demanding strict ehtics from ALL
dealers?

How can ANY retail dealer not put pressure on a coin doctor? *I find it hard
to believe that save for a small handful of dealers I know of-Doug Winter,
Al Pinkall, Bill Shamhart, John Albanese are the ONLY ones speaking out with
any sincerity. Few others have been PUBLICALLY attacking the coins doctoring
situation. Why? I guess its hard when your joined at the hip to a "crackout
dealer" or coin doctor (or are related). If your town had posion in its
drinking water, wouldn't you join any legit cause to rid the problem? ALL
other retail dealers should be ashamed of themselves. I so tempted to name
names.

Ask your dealer what they are doing about this situation? If they say little
or nothing, deal with someone who does! We need MORE pressure put on the bad
guys! Dealers should be the direct warriors againts their own gone astry
peers.

I WILL PAY TO SEE THE COIN DOCTORS CAUGHT AND PUNISHED-I'M PUTTING OUT A
CONTRACT!

I have made a good living buying and selling coins. My passion is deep and I
can not stand to see any negatives hurting the hobby. I am a collector
first, dealer second. It is my strong personal opinion, coin doctors should
not be allowed to walk a bourse floor or make a living by destroying
precious rarities.

Since I am NOT a member of the PNG nor plan on becoming on-but have been so
highly critical of their lack of action, I will propose this unlikley
motivation for them:

I Laura Sperber, will donate to the ANA Young Numismatist fund ( or ANY fund
of the PNGs choosing) 1,000.00 for EVERY coin doctor the PNG identifies and
permenatley expells from their membership. If anyone wants to join me in
creating a bigger fund, please email me. *This is NOT a gimmick or PR move.
I am desperate for these guys to do something NOW.

I'd LOVE to see them convict 25 of the top dealers who are coin doctors. It
would mean so much to the hobby.

THE FIGHT GOES ON

Some VERY interesting and mindblowing things will be reveald shortly from
the PCGS lawsuit. Some of it will be shocking i am told. Dealers have to
wake up NOW.

Again, my main issue is the dealers attitudes. Sure, PCGS and NGC are paid
to detect doctoring, BUT (the big BUT), its the dealers who are the
criminals in that they try to defraud the grading services by altering the
coins. The amount of dealers who think PCGS is wrong just amazes me. Only
after they read their contract with them do they say an "oh". We need to
work harder-especially the PNG to change dealers greedy attitudes. The ANA
and ALL numismatic publications need to push harder too.

I do not want to leave a good show like the ANA feeling "dirty" again. I am
hoping by this time next year, a dozen or so docs and ruthless "crackout"
dealers (mini docs-putting, haze, etc) are gone. If we do not put more
pressure on these guys now, we'll have multiples more coins ruined by this
time next year. I am sick of looking at ruined and overgraded coins!

All comments are welcome. Please email . I would
love to hear what you are doing about the coin doctoring situation.


I guess I thought that leadership involved defining an issue clearly
and explaining fully the remedies. Anger and revenge seem to flow in
other channels.
  #5  
Old August 19th 10, 11:09 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Frank Galikanokus
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 291
Default WHAT WILL IT REALLY TAKE TO MAKE DEALERS CARE?

Laura Sperber wrote:

WHAT WILL IT REALLY TAKE TO MAKE DEALERS CARE?

In my opinion, it seems hell has to freeze over or the market to end due to
shoddy coins from the lack of real self policing.

Almost two months into the PCGS Lawsuit and all I hear from other dealers is
disgust. Not disgust the right way. Many are sympathetic to the conspirators
and feel PCGS is the bad guy. The PNG thinks I am just making noise for
publictiy about them, yet they are hiding behind an internal wall of
silence. At the ANA Show, I witnessed no changes, no dealers were scared,
nothing. Sure, the coin docting issue was a topic, but no dealers cared to
step forward and say stop. More complained about "airing laundry" then
helping. What a bunch of BS. As far as I am concerned, there is s still a
horribly disgusting mentality among most wholesale dealers that they have a
right to ruin coins for profit. And my fellow retailers need to get over the
fact its ok to look the other way-it is not.

Well, I lump all of them (Non and PNG dealers) in to a "deadwood" catagory.
ANY retail dealer who does nothing about this gets lumped in too. I predict
within a year, unless the PNG really moves on his issue, they will be done
as an organziation. I also predict you won't see many of your favorite
dealers doing much business as they will be out of business.

I am tired of pointing out how the PNG has been slow to react and has done
little enforcement on coin doctoring. However, my new favorite routine is
when they now say, since a doctor is not one of our members, why should we
chase them? How would they like it if no one attended their PNG days? I
think the public is starting to be fed up and will send them a message.

Are there ANY dealers, ANY at all with ANY shred of decency or ehtics? I am
blown away how at the ANA show all the bright young dealers are doing
nothing but crackouts and a few are even becoming coin docs. This is NOT the
way to go. Why isn't the PNG teaching or demanding strict ehtics from ALL
dealers?

How can ANY retail dealer not put pressure on a coin doctor? I find it hard
to believe that save for a small handful of dealers I know of-Doug Winter,
Al Pinkall, Bill Shamhart, John Albanese are the ONLY ones speaking out with
any sincerity. Few others have been PUBLICALLY attacking the coins doctoring
situation. Why? I guess its hard when your joined at the hip to a "crackout
dealer" or coin doctor (or are related). If your town had posion in its
drinking water, wouldn't you join any legit cause to rid the problem? ALL
other retail dealers should be ashamed of themselves. I so tempted to name
names.

Ask your dealer what they are doing about this situation? If they say little
or nothing, deal with someone who does! We need MORE pressure put on the bad
guys! Dealers should be the direct warriors againts their own gone astry
peers.

I WILL PAY TO SEE THE COIN DOCTORS CAUGHT AND PUNISHED-I'M PUTTING OUT A
CONTRACT!

I have made a good living buying and selling coins. My passion is deep and I
can not stand to see any negatives hurting the hobby. I am a collector
first, dealer second. It is my strong personal opinion, coin doctors should
not be allowed to walk a bourse floor or make a living by destroying
precious rarities.

Since I am NOT a member of the PNG nor plan on becoming on-but have been so
highly critical of their lack of action, I will propose this unlikley
motivation for them:

I Laura Sperber, will donate to the ANA Young Numismatist fund ( or ANY fund
of the PNGs choosing) 1,000.00 for EVERY coin doctor the PNG identifies and
permenatley expells from their membership. If anyone wants to join me in
creating a bigger fund, please email me. This is NOT a gimmick or PR move.
I am desperate for these guys to do something NOW.

I'd LOVE to see them convict 25 of the top dealers who are coin doctors. It
would mean so much to the hobby.

THE FIGHT GOES ON

Some VERY interesting and mindblowing things will be reveald shortly from
the PCGS lawsuit. Some of it will be shocking i am told. Dealers have to
wake up NOW.

Again, my main issue is the dealers attitudes. Sure, PCGS and NGC are paid
to detect doctoring, BUT (the big BUT), its the dealers who are the
criminals in that they try to defraud the grading services by altering the
coins. The amount of dealers who think PCGS is wrong just amazes me. Only
after they read their contract with them do they say an "oh". We need to
work harder-especially the PNG to change dealers greedy attitudes. The ANA
and ALL numismatic publications need to push harder too.

I do not want to leave a good show like the ANA feeling "dirty" again. I am
hoping by this time next year, a dozen or so docs and ruthless "crackout"
dealers (mini docs-putting, haze, etc) are gone. If we do not put more
pressure on these guys now, we'll have multiples more coins ruined by this
time next year. I am sick of looking at ruined and overgraded coins!

All comments are welcome. Please email . I would
love to hear what you are doing about the coin doctoring situation.



How many doctored coins did you see in the dealers inventory?

How many dealers were in favor coin doctoring?

JAM
 




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