Reputable U.S. Dealers that don't sell slabs

Would you mind sharing a photo of the 1800 half cent? I have a current
fascination with 1800 half cents since it is a transitional piece with an
interesting planchet story and very few early die state specimens.

Buck

"Fletch" wrote in message
...
My guess is six or seven hundred U.S. It has great detail. I cannot
detect the cleaning myself -- other than the lack of luster...or perhaps
that is what they look for?

I put it in an envelope and am hoping it will retone. It's a 1800 half
cent.

--keith

"Jorg Lueke" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 00:43:39 GMT, Fletch wrote:

Yep, and I bought a raw coin with a recent Stack's pedigree. Two
grading
services body bagged it for an old cleaning. (NGC and ICG). It was a
thousand dollar coin. Was.

What's it worth now with the Stacks but without the NGC and ICG
pedigrees?

On 02 Feb 2005 01:34:33 GMT, mark wrote:

From: "Jorg Lueke"

Out of the big PNG member dealers of US coins how many still sell mostly
just the coin without a third party slab holder? Stacks and Julian
Leidman are the only ones that come to mind...

Most of what Fred Weinberg sells isn't slabbed, but then as a dealer of
error
coins he's already in the minority.

Are most of the error coins MS or cicrculated? While we;'ve seen slabbed
blank planchets with grades one can see how MS66/67 grade splits in errors
can get rather silly. It's also interetsing that the other major area not
being slabbed is coppers. Especially on early ones the collecting
community seems to have better standards than the grading services.

Fletch wrote:

My guess is six or seven hundred U.S. It has great detail. I cannot detect
the cleaning myself -- other than the lack of luster...or perhaps that is
what they look for?

I put it in an envelope and am hoping it will retone. It's a 1800 half
cent.



How did Stacks describe the coin/grade the coin?

JAM

Stack's likes to call mint state coins "Uncirculated," "Choice
Uncirculated," and "Gem Uncirculated."
But their terms of sale state that these grades are "strictly the
opinion of the cataloguer and shall not be deemed to be part of the
description; i.e. it is an opinion only and not a warranty of any
kind."

"STACK'S / COIN GALLERIES does not represent that a numismatic item
has or has not been cleaned; that any toning is natural or
artificial; that any coin catalogued will meet the standards, or the
grade, of any third party or third party grading service; that a
numismatic item has a particular provenance or pedigree; that a
numismatic item is struck or not struck, or produced or not produced
in a particular manner or style."

"the grade, artisanship, provenance, or attribution is the firm's
opinion only on which no third party, including the bidder, is
entitled to rely."

"STACK'S / COIN GALLERIES reminds the Buyer that the grading or
condition of rare coins may have a material effect on the value of
the items purchased; that others may differ with the grading
opinions or interpretations of STACK'S / COIN GALLERIES; that such
difference of opinion (including whether the coin has been cleaned,
or is or is not of a particular grade or quality) is not grounds to
return an item purchased"

I don't see how serious collectors can bid serious money for
uncertified coins sold under these terms.

On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 21:29:44 -0600, "Jorg Lueke"
wrote:

Are most of the error coins MS or cicrculated?

Most modern error coins are uncirculated.

While we;'ve seen slabbed
blank planchets with grades one can see how MS66/67 grade splits in errors
can get rather silly.

Not silly, absurd. In fact, numerical grading in errors is
absurd. Errors do weird things to the metal, and standard
grading just breaks down in most cases. I don't give my error
coins numerical grades. Blanks, of course, really shouldn't get
much of a grade at all.

snip


--
Ed. Stoebenau
a #143

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 13:54:20 -0600, "Jorg Lueke"
wrote:

Out of the big PNG member dealers of US coins how many still sell mostly
just the coin without a third party slab holder? Stacks and Julian
Leidman are the only ones that come to mind...

Well, ignoring the PNG designation, most dealers in early copper,
colonials, medals, tokens, world coins, ancient coins, and paper
money will be principally selling raw items. And I'm sure there
are even more specialties.


--
Ed. Stoebenau
a #143

From: "Jorg Lueke"

Are most of the error coins MS or cicrculated?

Good question. A lot of what he had at the Charlotte ANA show (the only one
where I've seen him in person) was uncirculated; I'd say at least half,
possibly more.

Looking at his web site, he does have quite a few slabs. Taking the cents
listing as an example, most are uncirculated:

http://www.fredweinberg.com/inventor...ylist.asp?ID=1

The raw cents are also mostly Uncs:

http://www.fredweinberg.com/inventor...?ID=1&cert=Raw

He's got lots of cool items listed; well worth the time just to look around,
especially if you've never seen some of the more spectacular error types:

http://www.fredweinberg.com/inventory/item.asp?ID=1909


--
mark

On 03 Feb 2005 06:24:31 GMT, mark wrote:

From: "Jorg Lueke"

Are most of the error coins MS or cicrculated?

Good question. A lot of what he had at the Charlotte ANA show (the
only one
where I've seen him in person) was uncirculated; I'd say at least half,
possibly more.

Looking at his web site, he does have quite a few slabs. Taking the
cents
listing as an example, most are uncirculated:

http://www.fredweinberg.com/inventor...ylist.asp?ID=1

The raw cents are also mostly Uncs:

http://www.fredweinberg.com/inventor...?ID=1&cert=Raw

He's got lots of cool items listed; well worth the time just to look
around,
especially if you've never seen some of the more spectacular error types:

http://www.fredweinberg.com/inventory/item.asp?ID=1909

I love it. Fold over strike MS64 :-) What published criteria are they
using to make these judgements. Error coins are cool, but until I become
a multi millionaire I'll have to keep my focus narrowed.

On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 23:45:32 -0600, Ed. Stoebenau
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 13:54:20 -0600, "Jorg Lueke"
wrote:

Out of the big PNG member dealers of US coins how many still sell mostly
just the coin without a third party slab holder? Stacks and Julian
Leidman are the only ones that come to mind...

Well, ignoring the PNG designation, most dealers in early copper,
colonials, medals, tokens, world coins, ancient coins, and paper
money will be principally selling raw items. And I'm sure there
are even more specialties.

You also ignored the coin portion of my stipulation :-)

Tokens would be difficult to give MS grades, especially older ones missing
luster and struck from questionable dies at the beginning. Plus the
market is much smaller. Early American and Colonials probably have some
similar limitations.

Slabs seem to do best in areas where there is enough supply and demand to
create an opportunity to profit on minor grade splits. If all coins were
circulated the % of $ spent on slabbing per annum for the whole coin
market would likely be quite a bit smaller.

On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 20:39:31 -0600, "Jorg Lueke"
wrote:

On 03 Feb 2005 06:24:31 GMT, mark wrote:

He's got lots of cool items listed; well worth the time just to look
around,
especially if you've never seen some of the more spectacular error types:

http://www.fredweinberg.com/inventory/item.asp?ID=1909

I love it. Fold over strike MS64 :-)

Foldovers are nice. I got a 1981 1c foldover. Thankfully I got
it about 10 years ago, when it was only $100-125. Amazing how
much they've gone up in value.

What published criteria are they
using to make these judgements.

With regards to the grade? None, I would say. For most error
types, numerical grades are just not meaningful. The metal flow
involved just plain prevents any comparison to normal coins.
"Unc/ch unc/gem unc" is more than adequate for errors.

Error coins are cool, but until I become
a multi millionaire I'll have to keep my focus narrowed.

Actually, there are _many_ error coins you can get for under
$100, $50, or even $20. Except for double denominations,
foldovers, die caps, unplated zinc cents, type errors, and most
wrong metals, there is much which will be affordable.
Off-centers, blanks, clips, double strikes, indents, brockages
(full and partial), partial collars, broadstrikes, wrong stock
errors, and much more will all be quite affordable.


--
Ed. Stoebenau
a #143