An Owl for Anka

On Mar 18, 7:56�pm, wrote:
On Mar 16, 2:10�pm, wrote:

On Mar 16, 9:22 am, Reid Goldsborough
wrote:
From your neck of the woods, sort of, let me know if you ever come
across a Bakrian Owl that's reasonable.
Boy, are you dumb. �It's a Bactrian CAMEL. �;-)

~Anka

Which made me realize: �All the camel images I can think of on Greek
or Roman coins (mainly through personifications of Arabia) are of the
dromedary or one-hump camel. �I don't think I've seen any
representations of Bactrian (two-hump) camels on any ancient Western
art at all, for that matter. �I guess the Bactrian camel wasn't nearly
as familiar to ancient (Western) artists as the dromedary?

But those wanting to see a Bactrian camel on ancient coinage are in
luck. �The Kushans come through with this coin:

http://www.grifterrec.com/coins/kush...ush_2887_r.jpg

-Robert A. DeRose, Jr.
"Will muse about ancient art for food (or coins)"

With apologies to Ogden Nash:

The one-humped camel - what a beast!
The two-humped camel's from the East
And I will bet my tooth enamel
There isn't any three-humped camel.

~Anka

On Mar 18, 7:56�pm, wrote:
On Mar 16, 2:10�pm, wrote:

On Mar 16, 9:22 am, Reid Goldsborough
wrote:
From your neck of the woods, sort of, let me know if you ever come
across a Bakrian Owl that's reasonable.
Boy, are you dumb. �It's a Bactrian CAMEL. �;-)

~Anka

Which made me realize: �All the camel images I can think of on Greek
or Roman coins (mainly through personifications of Arabia) are of the
dromedary or one-hump camel. �I don't think I've seen any
representations of Bactrian (two-hump) camels on any ancient Western
art at all, for that matter. �I guess the Bactrian camel wasn't nearly
as familiar to ancient (Western) artists as the dromedary?

But those wanting to see a Bactrian camel on ancient coinage are in
luck. �The Kushans come through with this coin:

http://www.grifterrec.com/coins/kush...ush_2887_r.jpg

-Robert A. DeRose, Jr.
"Will muse about ancient art for food (or coins)"

With apologies to Ogden Nash:

The one-humped camel's quite a beast!
The two-humped camel's from the East.
And I will bet my tooth enamel
There isn't any three-humped camel.

~Anka

About this Owl:

http://rg.ancients.info/misc/Owl4.jpg

What can be said about it, with assurance, is "Fake, fake, fake, fake,
fake."

Other things: It's a curious fake. From its photo, it does indeed
appear to be an attractive, and authentic, pre-Salamis archaic Owl, c.
490-482 BC, Sear 1842. In hand, it appears originally engraved rather
than cast and, in the Bulgarian style, pressed rather than hand
struck. It also appears to be silver. It's the correct diameter, but
it's thin and light, weighing only 11.2 grams.

The obvious question is, Why would the forger or forgery workshop who
produced this well-made fake have skimped on something like $2 worth
of silver when making it the correct weight would have made it
"genuinely" deceptive? Maybe it was a trial piece, put out by one of
the seven Bulgarian forgery workshops that Ilya Prokopov has
documented in his books on ancient coin forgery emanating out of
Bulgaria.

I haven't seen this fake documented anywhere. Presumably pieces using
the same die have been put out of the correct weight. Caveat emptor as
always, in this case if you're in the market for a $5,000 ancient coin
from the time that the West's embryonic experimentation with democracy
and individual rights was saved from destruction by Persian tyranny.

--

Consumer:http://rg.ancients.info/guide
Connoisseur:http://rg.ancients.info/glom
Counterfeit:http://rg.ancients.info/bogos

Here's yet another Owl for Anka, another recent acquisition, another
piece I'd have no problem mouthing off about:

http://rg.ancients.info/misc/Owl6.jpg

So, anybody care to offer an opinion about what it is? Why is it
interesting, or not? Authentic, or not? Weight and diameter to follow.

--

Consumer: http://rg.ancients.info/guide
Connoisseur: http://rg.ancients.info/glom
Counterfeit: http://rg.ancients.info/bogos

"Reid Goldsborough" wrote in message
...
Here's yet another Owl for Anka, another recent acquisition, another
piece I'd have no problem mouthing off about:

http://rg.ancients.info/misc/Owl6.jpg

So, anybody care to offer an opinion about what it is?

A coin.

Why is it
interesting, or not?

Not interesting because it looks like a turd. But that's just me.

Authentic, or not? Weight and diameter to follow.

As if someone would try and fake that?

On Mar 22, 11:29*am, "PC" wrote:

http://rg.ancients.info/misc/Owl6.jpg

So, anybody care to offer an opinion about what it is?

A coin.

You're a smart guy. No wonder why you call yourself PC. What's your
real name?

Not interesting because it looks like a turd. *But that's just me.

It is just you.

About this coin:

http://rg.ancients.info/misc/Owl6.jpg

It's ancient, it's authentic, but it's not official. It's a copy, an
ancient copy, struck in all likelihood by the Sabeans of South Arabia,
from Saba, which today is part of Yemen. Saba is best known from the
Old Testament, where it's called Sheba, which is the English
equivalent of Sh'va and is the transliteration of the Hebrew word for
Saba.

The story of King Solomon and the Queen of Sheba appears not only in
the Bible but is also cited by various ancient Assyrian, Greek, and
Roman writers. Hearing of the great Jewish king's wisdom, the queen
from the South traveled north, probably around 950-930 BC, to test the
king with "hard questions." The meeting was a success, and the two
nations began trading heavily with one another. The Sabeans also
traded heavily with the Greeks, hence their copying the famous
Athenian Owl tetradrachms some 700 years later. Earlier, perhaps
around 4000 BC, Yemen is thought to be where the Semitic people
originated, and much earlier, around 110,000 years ago, the locale
that mankind reached first when migrating out of Africa

This imitative Owl is among the first South Arabian coins. As with
many regions at the time, the first coins were closely patterned after
the known and widely used Owls that originated in Athens, among the
leading trading, military, and cultural powers of the day, though
Athens' peak power preceded the issuance of this coin.

This coin was issued in the 4th or 3rd century BC and can be
attributed as Munro-Hay Type 1.0.4 and as Huth 1. It's full weight at
16.8g and appears to be made of good silver. It closely copies
official Athenian Intermediate Owls, though Athena's helmet, hair, and
eye are styled more simply, Athena's nose is overlarge, the owl is
squatter, and the "ATHE" ethnic is more crudely styled than on
official Athenian issues. A tiny coarsely engraved A countermark
appears on this specimen to right of owl's left leg. The porosity is
much more evident in the photo than on the coin in hand, but I'm a
little biased here. g

--

Consumer: http://rg.ancients.info/guide
Connoisseur: http://rg.ancients.info/glom
Counterfeit: http://rg.ancients.info/bogos

Reid Goldsborough wrote:
About this coin:

http://rg.ancients.info/misc/Owl6.jpg

It's ancient, it's authentic, but it's not official. It's a copy, an
ancient copy, struck in all likelihood by the Sabeans of South Arabia,
from Saba, which today is part of Yemen. Saba is best known from the
Old Testament, where it's called Sheba, which is the English
equivalent of Sh'va and is the transliteration of the Hebrew word for
Saba.

The story of King Solomon and the Queen of Sheba appears not only in
the Bible but is also cited by various ancient Assyrian, Greek, and
Roman writers. Hearing of the great Jewish king's wisdom, the queen
from the South traveled north, probably around 950-930 BC, to test the
king with "hard questions." The meeting was a success, and the two
nations began trading heavily with one another. The Sabeans also
traded heavily with the Greeks, hence their copying the famous
Athenian Owl tetradrachms some 700 years later. Earlier, perhaps
around 4000 BC, Yemen is thought to be where the Semitic people
originated, and much earlier, around 110,000 years ago, the locale
that mankind reached first when migrating out of Africa

This imitative Owl is among the first South Arabian coins. As with
many regions at the time, the first coins were closely patterned after
the known and widely used Owls that originated in Athens, among the
leading trading, military, and cultural powers of the day, though
Athens' peak power preceded the issuance of this coin.

This coin was issued in the 4th or 3rd century BC and can be
attributed as Munro-Hay Type 1.0.4 and as Huth 1. It's full weight at
16.8g and appears to be made of good silver. It closely copies
official Athenian Intermediate Owls, though Athena's helmet, hair, and
eye are styled more simply, Athena's nose is overlarge, the owl is
squatter, and the "ATHE" ethnic is more crudely styled than on
official Athenian issues. A tiny coarsely engraved A countermark
appears on this specimen to right of owl's left leg. The porosity is
much more evident in the photo than on the coin in hand, but I'm a
little biased here. g

Neat. The coin is certainly no `turd' to my eye, and i'd be more than
happy to have one of these (especially such a good example) in my
collection, but as in all cases.....beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Ian

Here's one last Owl for Anka, my latest acquisition, not yet
received ... can't wait. Actually I can, I have to, I have no choice.
Anyway, I'm a little frustrated, Anka. I've provided all these Owls
for you, five now including this latest, and in return all you've
given back is one Roman Provincial tetradrachm illustrating some
woman. I repeat, provincial, as in uncouth, boorish, and countrified.
You can look it up. So, after this, no more Owls for you. Well, at
least for now.

This is my latest pride and joy, 17.05 grams stark naked, sold as VF
but I'd grade it gVF:

http://rg.ancients.info/misc/Owl7.jpg

Glom on that crest. Amazing, awe-inspiring, breathtaking. Unlike many
full-crest Classical Owls, on this one Athena is still well centered.
Most Owls are missing the crest at the top of Athena's helmet because
the obverse type or device on these coins almost always is too big to
completely fit on the flan, and the crest is almost always what's
missing.

On this one, the crest is all there in all its glory, with the Attic
helmet further adorned with a floral scroll (flowery design) and olive
leaves, the floral scroll in all probability referring to the Greek
victory over the Persians, the olive leaves to Athens' international
olive oil trade, one of the reasons for her prosperity at the time.

On the reverse, the owl symbolizes wisdom, the olive sprig oil, the
crescent moon most likely the Battle of Salamis, which was more
decisive in determining Athens' fate and its historical role as the
fountainhead of democracy and individual rights than the more famous
Battle of Marathon or Battle of Thermopylae.

The owl is also well centered, though the AQE ethnic, which is short
for "Of the Athenians," is weakly struck. Athena has a scratch on her
cheek, though this appears to be accentuated in this photo because of
the lighting. It'll be interesting to see how obvious this and the
other marks are on her cheek appear on the coin in hand. And there are
small digs at Athena's hair, also perhaps accentuated by the lighting,
and in the floral scroll, perhaps softened by the lighting.

We'll see...

--

Consumer:http://rg.ancients.info/guide
Connoisseur:http://rg.ancients.info/glom
Counterfeit:http://rg.ancients.info/bogos

On Mar 24, 3:52*pm, Ian wrote:

Neat. The coin is certainly no `turd' to my eye, and i'd be more than
happy to have one of these (especially such a good example) in my
collection, but as in all cases.....beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Thanks. I like her.

--

Consumer:http://rg.ancients.info/guide
Connoisseur:http://rg.ancients.info/glom
Counterfeit:http://rg.ancients.info/bogos