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#1
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An Owl for Anka
Things are a mess around here, in a funny kind of way. Here's my own
little contribution to substance. I'm going to have to show off a bit, but unapologetically, and unavoidably. This could also be educational, and fun. Or not. OK, Anka, and anybody else who'd like to respond. I know you collect Owls, or have at least one. I know others collect them too, have studied them, or have a more casual interest. Up for a challenge? I promise to be nice. Here's an Owl, recently acquired, weighing 12.98g and measuring 22mm in diameter: http://rg.ancients.info/misc/Owl1.jpg Can you further identify it? What's interesting, or uninteresting, about it? No problem if you don't feel up to responding or respond with sarcasm or abstruseness, in English or any other language. Well, my feelings might be hurt a little, but I probably deserve it. It could be interesting to get something going here about ancient coins to show the uninitiated what the excitement is all about. If this works, I'll do the same with another. -- Consumer: http://rg.ancients.info/guide Connoisseur: http://rg.ancients.info/glom Counterfeit: http://rg.ancients.info/bogos |
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#2
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An Owl for Anka
Reid Goldsborough wrote:
Things are a mess around here, in a funny kind of way. Here's my own little contribution to substance. I'm going to have to show off a bit, but unapologetically, and unavoidably. This could also be educational, and fun. Or not. OK, Anka, and anybody else who'd like to respond. I know you collect Owls, or have at least one. I know others collect them too, have studied them, or have a more casual interest. Up for a challenge? I promise to be nice. Here's an Owl, recently acquired, weighing 12.98g and measuring 22mm in diameter: http://rg.ancients.info/misc/Owl1.jpg Can you further identify it? What's interesting, or uninteresting, about it? No problem if you don't feel up to responding or respond with sarcasm or abstruseness, in English or any other language. Well, my feelings might be hurt a little, but I probably deserve it. It could be interesting to get something going here about ancient coins to show the uninitiated what the excitement is all about. If this works, I'll do the same with another. SNG Cop 31ff. Classical owl. It seems a couple grams light, but I can't really see anything that jumps out at me. I'm stumped on the "interesting" characteristic. Hmm.... |
#3
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An Owl for Anka
On Mar 11, 11:16�pm, "Matthew" wrote:
Reid Goldsborough wrote: Things are a mess around here, in a funny kind of way. Here's my own little contribution to substance. I'm going to have to show off a bit, but unapologetically, and unavoidably. This could also be educational, and fun. Or not. OK, Anka, and anybody else who'd like to respond. I know you collect Owls, or have at least one. I know others collect them too, have studied them, or have a more casual interest. Up for a challenge? I promise to be nice. Here's an Owl, recently acquired, weighing 12.98g and measuring 22mm in diameter: http://rg.ancients.info/misc/Owl1.jpg Can you further identify it? What's interesting, or uninteresting, about it? No problem if you don't feel up to responding or respond with sarcasm or abstruseness, in English or any other language. Well, my feelings might be hurt a little, but I probably deserve it. It could be interesting to get something going here about ancient coins to show the uninitiated what the excitement is all about. If this works, I'll do the same with another. SNG Cop 31ff. �Classical owl. �It seems a couple grams light, but I can't really see anything that jumps out at me. �I'm stumped on the "interesting" characteristic. �Hmm....- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - It's a fouree, of course. These are usually ascribed to the emergency issue mentioned in Aristophanes' play The Frogs, but they could be private forgeries too. It is because of the danger of plated coins like these that coins were frequently tested by chopping them with a chisel. |
#4
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An Owl for Anka
Bob wrote:
On Mar 11, 11:16?pm, "Matthew" wrote: Reid Goldsborough wrote: Things are a mess around here, in a funny kind of way. Here's my own little contribution to substance. I'm going to have to show off a bit, but unapologetically, and unavoidably. This could also be educational, and fun. Or not. OK, Anka, and anybody else who'd like to respond. I know you collect Owls, or have at least one. I know others collect them too, have studied them, or have a more casual interest. Up for a challenge? I promise to be nice. Here's an Owl, recently acquired, weighing 12.98g and measuring 22mm in diameter: http://rg.ancients.info/misc/Owl1.jpg Can you further identify it? What's interesting, or uninteresting, about it? No problem if you don't feel up to responding or respond with sarcasm or abstruseness, in English or any other language. Well, my feelings might be hurt a little, but I probably deserve it. It could be interesting to get something going here about ancient coins to show the uninitiated what the excitement is all about. If this works, I'll do the same with another. SNG Cop 31ff. ?Classical owl. ?It seems a couple grams light, but I can't really see anything that jumps out at me. ?I'm stumped on the "interesting" characteristic. ?Hmm....- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - It's a fouree, of course. These are usually ascribed to the emergency issue mentioned in Aristophanes' play The Frogs, but they could be private forgeries too. It is because of the danger of plated coins like these that coins were frequently tested by chopping them with a chisel. Is it because of the rust-colored areas of damage that it's a fouree? How can you tell that is not dirt or other staining on such a worn coin? |
#5
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An Owl for Anka
On Mar 11, 11:01�pm, Reid Goldsborough
wrote: Things are a mess around here, in a funny kind of way. Here's my own little contribution to substance. I'm going to have to show off a bit, but unapologetically, and unavoidably. This could also be educational, and fun. Or not. OK, Anka, and anybody else who'd like to respond. I know you collect Owls, or have at least one. I know others collect them too, have studied them, or have a more casual interest. Up for a challenge? I promise to be nice. Here's an Owl, recently acquired, weighing 12.98g and measuring 22mm in diameter: http://rg.ancients.info/misc/Owl1.jpg Can you further identify it? What's interesting, or uninteresting, about it? No problem if you don't feel up to responding or respond with sarcasm or abstruseness, in English or any other language. Well, my feelings might be hurt a little, but I probably deserve it. It could be interesting to get something going here about ancient coins to show the uninitiated what the excitement is all about. If this works, I'll do the same with another. -- Consumer:http://rg.ancients.info/guide Connoisseur:http://rg.ancients.info/glom Counterfeit:http://rg.ancients.info/bogos Please refer to The Celator, Vol. 19, No. 10, October 2005; "Copper Owls: The Emergency Coinage of Athens 406 BC" by Michael E. Marotta Nyuk nyuk nyuk.... ~Anka |
#6
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An Owl for Anka
On Mar 11, 11:01�pm, Reid Goldsborough
wrote: Things are a mess around here, in a funny kind of way. Here's my own little contribution to substance. I'm going to have to show off a bit, but unapologetically, and unavoidably. This could also be educational, and fun. Or not. OK, Anka, and anybody else who'd like to respond. I know you collect Owls, or have at least one. I know others collect them too, have studied them, or have a more casual interest. Up for a challenge? I promise to be nice. Here's an Owl, recently acquired, weighing 12.98g and measuring 22mm in diameter: http://rg.ancients.info/misc/Owl1.jpg Can you further identify it? What's interesting, or uninteresting, about it? No problem if you don't feel up to responding or respond with sarcasm or abstruseness, in English or any other language. Well, my feelings might be hurt a little, but I probably deserve it. It could be interesting to get something going here about ancient coins to show the uninitiated what the excitement is all about. If this works, I'll do the same with another. -- Consumer:http://rg.ancients.info/guide Connoisseur:http://rg.ancients.info/glom Counterfeit:http://rg.ancients.info/bogos As long as we're showing of... http://www.vcoins.com/ancient/sayles...idProduct=7126 Dum dee dum dum..... ~Anka |
#7
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An Owl for Anka
Dare I mention the c word? Billy
"Reid Goldsborough" wrote in message ... Things are a mess around here, in a funny kind of way. Here's my own little contribution to substance. I'm going to have to show off a bit, but unapologetically, and unavoidably. This could also be educational, and fun. Or not. OK, Anka, and anybody else who'd like to respond. I know you collect Owls, or have at least one. I know others collect them too, have studied them, or have a more casual interest. Up for a challenge? I promise to be nice. Here's an Owl, recently acquired, weighing 12.98g and measuring 22mm in diameter: http://rg.ancients.info/misc/Owl1.jpg Can you further identify it? What's interesting, or uninteresting, about it? No problem if you don't feel up to responding or respond with sarcasm or abstruseness, in English or any other language. Well, my feelings might be hurt a little, but I probably deserve it. It could be interesting to get something going here about ancient coins to show the uninitiated what the excitement is all about. If this works, I'll do the same with another. -- Consumer: http://rg.ancients.info/guide Connoisseur: http://rg.ancients.info/glom Counterfeit: http://rg.ancients.info/bogos |
#8
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An Owl for Anka
On Mar 12, 3:38�pm, "note.boy" wrote:
Dare I mention the c word? �Billy "Reid Goldsborough" wrote in message ... Things are a mess around here, in a funny kind of way. Here's my own little contribution to substance. I'm going to have to show off a bit, but unapologetically, and unavoidably. This could also be educational, and fun. Or not. OK, Anka, and anybody else who'd like to respond. I know you collect Owls, or have at least one. I know others collect them too, have studied them, or have a more casual interest. Up for a challenge? I promise to be nice. Here's an Owl, recently acquired, weighing 12.98g and measuring 22mm in diameter: http://rg.ancients.info/misc/Owl1.jpg Can you further identify it? What's interesting, or uninteresting, about it? No problem if you don't feel up to responding or respond with sarcasm or abstruseness, in English or any other language. Well, my feelings might be hurt a little, but I probably deserve it. It could be interesting to get something going here about ancient coins to show the uninitiated what the excitement is all about. If this works, I'll do the same with another. -- Consumer:http://rg.ancients.info/guide Connoisseur:http://rg.ancients.info/glom Counterfeit:http://rg.ancients.info/bogos- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You better mean "counterfeit," buddy. ;-) ~Anka |
#9
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An Owl for Anka
Another long post...
Everybody who has responded thus far is correct, more or less. This coin is, or purports to be, a classical Athenian Owl issued c. 449-413 BC that can be attributed among other ways as SNG Cop 31ff. However, the rust- or brown-colored areas on the coin's surfaces indicate the coin isn't as it purports to be, that it instead is a fourree, or plated coin, in this case silver-plated copper. The light weight is another diagnostic, with authentic Owls typically weighing between 16.0 and the official weight of 17.2 grams. Here's one interesting part. Classical Owls, having this design, are one of the few coin types in history in which there were official plated specimens, meaning this coin isn't *necessarily* an ancient counterfeit. These official plated Owls are typically termed Emergency Issue Owls. They were issued at the end of the Peloponnesian War, which Athens was losing to Sparta, as revealed in Aristophanes' c. 405 BC play The Frogs and by numismatic evidence. Anka points to a 2005 Celator article about these, but this article's thesis is that the only coins that should be called Emergency Issue Owls are those that can be linked to just one hoard, the Eleusis/Piraeus Hoard of 1902. This doesn't make sense numismatically or logically -- there have been many other hoards uncovered before and since then that included Emergency Issue Owls -- and this thesis has been ignored. On the other hand, too many plated Owls are called Emergency Issues, with some dealers trying to sell up their coins in this way. The majority of plated Owls in all probability are simply ancient counterfeits, and not as desirable, rather than official coins issued in desperation by one of history's greatest cities and having appeal for this reason. How experts distinguish unofficial ancient counterfeit Owls and official Emergency Issue Owls, right now, is through stylistic analysis. Die analysis would be a more accurate method, but as yet no one has attempted this. Still, stylistic analysis is on fairly firm ground here. The style of classical Owls evolved during the half century of so in which they were issued, though the stylistic variation wasn't nearly as great as the jump from those Owls that preceded them as well as those Owls that followed them. J.N. Svoronos in his posthumously published 1924 book Corpus of the Ancient Coins of Athens (translated in English in 1975) does a good job of illustrating Emergency Issue Owls and placing them within the context of other late classical Owls. The style of my coin indicates it's not an official Emergency Issue silver-plated copper Owl but an unofficial counterfeit. Athena's eye is symmetrical and closed at the right corner in the style of early classical Owls, not asymmetrical and open in the style of late classical Owls that the Emergency Issues were part of. Also, Athena's nose is overlarge and totally un-Athenian, styled much like the noses on many tribal or "barbarous" ancient coins that copied classical designs. With this particular piece, and this is another interesting part, the dealer didn't try to sell up the coin by calling it an Emergency Issue but recognized it for what it is, simply an ancient counterfeit. The seller was Joe Sermarini of FORVM Ancient Coins (http:// forumancientcoins.com), which also hosts the most active online discussion of ancient coins on the Internet. I should point out that I have no financial interest in what he does -- just giving credit where credit is due. Other interesting parts: Unlike many Owl fourrees, this one hasn't been test cut, which was a commonly used method in ancient times to uncover silver-plated coins of this and other types by taking a chisel or other blade to the surfaces to reveal the interior. In this case the interior has been revealed only over the course of many centuries of the coin being buried underground, with corrosion eroding the silver plating in parts. The brown is the underlying copper. The green is the intermediate area separating the copper interior from the silver plating, sometimes called the eutectic layer. Metallurgical analyses on other fourrees indicates that this layer consists of 72 percent silver and 28 percent bronze. It's unclear whether the eutectic layer was a copper-silver solder applied to help bond the silver plating to the copper core or was formed when the silver-plated planchet was heated, partially melting and interdiffusing the silver and copper. Not all fourrees display silver, brown, and green areas, though among people who collect fourrees those that do are deemed more attractive and desirable. Some fourrees reveal only a brown interior. Some have plating that's entirely intact and are revealed for what they are through their low weight and sometimes as well by stylistic anomalies. And some have plating that's entirely corroded away. Fourrees have their own history and consequence and are valued for this by historians, numismatists, and the marketplace. It's not known whether Owl fourrees were used by Athens' enemies as weapons of war, but peoples and countries throughout history have counterfeited the coins and paper money of their enemies during wartime. The same happens today. What has also happened throughout history is that coins have been faked by common criminals trying to make an obol, or a buck. With Owls, as has been pointed out, the widespread existence of ancient Owl fourree counterfeits, along with official plated Emergency Issues Owls, is the reason so many good-metal Owls were test cut in ancient times and why we see so many test-cut Owls in the numismatic marketplace today. -- Consumer:http://rg.ancients.info/guide Connoisseur:http://rg.ancients.info/glom Counterfeit:http://rg.ancients.info/bogos |
#10
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An Owl for Anka
On Mar 12, 1:20*pm, "Matthew" wrote:
Is it because of the rust-colored areas of damage that it's a fouree? *How can you tell that is not dirt or other staining on such a worn coin? See how the rust- and green-colored areas appears dug out, in a rut or depression? That indicates they're lower than the silver surface of the coin, a result of corrosion that removed the silver above them. If this was dirt or corrosion, it would appear raised, higher than the silver surface. -- Consumer: http://rg.ancients.info/guide Connoisseur: http://rg.ancients.info/glom Counterfeit: http://rg.ancients.info/bogos |
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