Europeans are Slow

"JSTONE9352" wrote in message
...
A dealer that
consistently sold overgraded coins would not be in the coin business for
long, I hope.



Unfortunately that is not the case as there are several large advertisers
in CW
and NN who have been selling overgraded
coins for many years.

Ken Pine's Coast to Coast coins is one that comes to mind in my memory.
Back in 1992 I bought a BU 1868 3¢ and a BU 1865 2¢ piece from them, mind
you they were adverted at BU, what came was maybe AU. The 2¢ coin was not
even red.

Dave
"Still don't have a red BU 2¢ piece."


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.564 / Virus Database: 356 - Release Date: 1/19/04

snip


Beides, a coin in a slab is apparently no indication (or guarantee) of
the coin being genuine. The `slabbers' are only as `expert' as the
expertise you wish to confer upon them.


Actually, if you buy the right brand of slab it is. If it turns out the
coin is fake down the road, the right brand of slabbers will make it right.

Bob Peterson wrote:

snip


Beides, a coin in a slab is apparently no indication (or guarantee) of
the coin being genuine. The `slabbers' are only as `expert' as the
expertise you wish to confer upon them.



Actually, if you buy the right brand of slab it is. If it turns out the
coin is fake down the road, the right brand of slabbers will make it right.


Ah, but you are talking now of `guarantees' as opposed to expertise.

Perhaps guarantees are made on the basis of their having an endless pot
of gold with which to make restitution should their `expertise' fail
them from time to time (?) The guarantees provided vary, and I am
presuming those which are credible are backed by some form of indemnity
insurance that will click in if they go to the wall for any reason (?)
(I suspect that the guarantee is like most forms of currency...it is an
idea merely backed by `confidence'. I am aware that some have paid out
however, which adds to the generation of said confidence).

Companies come, and companies go. I had thought a mere year or so ago
that PCGS was `experiencing difficulties'. I might have been mistaken in
thinking that (yes / no?)

A mere five years ago ACG was an ascending star...... PCI was (although
not in the top three) well thought of etc. etc. etc.

Some if not all slabs are good for preserving coins. Beyond that, I
personally would not trust the existing slabbing companies to verify the
materials I collect, although I do accept that they may have gained a
degree of proficiency with US materials.

As previously stated, slabbing is a particularly US phenomenon. The
culture that is required to support it elsewhere (other than the US)
simply does not exist.

Ian

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 15:25:07 GMT, Colin Kynoch
wrote:

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 15:01:47 GMT, "Stujoe"
wrote:

"note.boy" wrote in message
...
If a collector of gold coins doesn't know the difference between a
genuine coin and a fake he should be collecting something else. Billy

I sure wich I knew everything about every coin that I might ever want
to own
without consulting a more experience opinion. I envy you guys.

You don't have to know everything about it to detect if it is
counterfeit.

Most coin guides will give you enough information to give you a good
idea as t whether the coin is fake or not.

Absolutely, positively not true. There are very few good books on
counterfeits in general. For some modern series there are some well
detailed books that can help. But no book is going to help with those
fakes you need a microscope to determine.


If you are unsure then don't buy. Pretty simple.

The dealers and the industry don't need the accountable. Hell I can try
to sell you all the fakes I can make and its just up to you to figure them
out.

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 17:03:17 +0000, note.boy
wrote:

I am repeatedly astounded that USA collectors accept changing grading
standards as a fact of life, a standard should be a standard, i.e.
unchanging.

A coin graded 20 years ago should obtain the same grade now.

I accept that having a high value coin in a slab at a low cost that
guarantees authenticity is reassuring for the collector, but buying a
raw coin from a reputable dealer does the same. A dealer that
consistently sold overgraded coins would not be in the coin business for
long, I hope.

It is utter rubbish to assume that frading standards would remain constant
over time. Grading is subjective. What people like, how people interpret
things changes over time. Study and experience, plus a broader market,
caused the finer and finer splits. At some point you do have to ask
yourself if the $$$ for 1 grade point makes sense, but that something
subjective continues to change is almost inevitable.

In article ,
espam (WinWinscenario) wrote:

1) AFA authenticity, all of the majors are very reliable--not infallible, but
very reliable about determining the authenticity of coins.

2) AFA grading, that is more subjective because no two coins have identical
surfaces.

Will any of the services comment on authenticity without slabbing and
grading?

- Scot Kamins
Learning the Art & Science of Numismatism

If grading is subjective what's the point of buying slabbed coins?

Why are coins "cracked out" for the chance of a higher grade.

Why do some collectors pay mega bucks extra for a minute grade
improvement?

Oh look mum, the Emperor isn't wearing any clothes! Billy


Jorg Lueke wrote:

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 17:03:17 +0000, note.boy
wrote:

I am repeatedly astounded that USA collectors accept changing grading
standards as a fact of life, a standard should be a standard, i.e.
unchanging.

A coin graded 20 years ago should obtain the same grade now.

I accept that having a high value coin in a slab at a low cost that
guarantees authenticity is reassuring for the collector, but buying a
raw coin from a reputable dealer does the same. A dealer that
consistently sold overgraded coins would not be in the coin business for
long, I hope.

It is utter rubbish to assume that frading standards would remain constant
over time. Grading is subjective. What people like, how people interpret
things changes over time. Study and experience, plus a broader market,
caused the finer and finer splits. At some point you do have to ask
yourself if the $$$ for 1 grade point makes sense, but that something
subjective continues to change is almost inevitable.

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 20:42:51 +0000, note.boy
wrote:

If grading is subjective what's the point of buying slabbed coins?

To guarentee authenticity


Why are coins "cracked out" for the chance of a higher grade.

Because grading is subjective and even the same person can come to two
different conclusions on two different days

Why do some collectors pay mega bucks extra for a minute grade
improvement?

They are either very, very knowledgable and keen graders or they are
informed speculators with more money than sense.

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 15:44:38 GMT, "Stujoe"
wrote:

"Colin Kynoch" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 15:01:47 GMT, "Stujoe"
wrote:

"note.boy" wrote in message
...
If a collector of gold coins doesn't know the difference between a
genuine coin and a fake he should be collecting something else. Billy

I sure wich I knew everything about every coin that I might ever want to
own
without consulting a more experience opinion. I envy you guys.

You don't have to know everything about it to detect if it is
counterfeit.

Most coin guides will give you enough information to give you a good
idea as t whether the coin is fake or not.

If you are unsure then don't buy. Pretty simple.


I can see that working (for me) with a Bust Dollar that has a constipated
Liberty on the obverse and a pigeon on the reverse but I would still like to
have an expert look at and guarantee something a little more deceiving. Even
though I rarely buy slabbed coins, I guess I just see slabbing as another
resource...like interpreting the information in a book, for instance.

I can see a place for slabbing for authetication.

Slabbing for grade is just asking for trouble.

Would you be happyto get your Bust Dollar back in a slab that said,
yup it is a ral one?

Or would you want say MS63 or AU50 or someother combination of numbers
and letetr to satisfy you?

Colin Kynoch

On Sat, 7 Feb 2004 09:56:44 -0600, "Bob Peterson"
wrote:


"Colin Kynoch" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 15:01:47 GMT, "Stujoe"
wrote:

"note.boy" wrote in message
...
If a collector of gold coins doesn't know the difference between a
genuine coin and a fake he should be collecting something else. Billy

I sure wich I knew everything about every coin that I might ever want to
own
without consulting a more experience opinion. I envy you guys.

You don't have to know everything about it to detect if it is
counterfeit.

Most coin guides will give you enough information to give you a good
idea as t whether the coin is fake or not.

If you are unsure then don't buy. Pretty simple.


Interesting that you have no problem relying on someone else's opinion from
a book to help you determine a coin's authenticity, but are opposed to
paying for their professional opinion on a coin in another format.

As stated if slabbing was for authetication only it would be
acceptable. It isn't most slabbing is done to 'prove' infintesimal
differences in grade. If you don't like the grade crack it and send
it to be regraded till you do like the grade.

There have been any number of posters here who have claimed to do just
that.

What a joke either a coin is a grade or it isn't. You shouldn't be
able to play the grading lottery.


ColinKynoch