Greece urges ECB to issue low denomination Euro notes

http://www.forbes.com/business/feeds...ap2118519.html

In article . com,
stonej wrote:

http://www.forbes.com/business/feeds...ap2118519.html

From the article:

On Thursday, Greek Development Minister Dimitris Sioufas said
low-denomination bills would help Europeans better understand the
value of the euro and deter businesses from overpricing basic items.

Are they saying that if people pay for an item with coins, where they
previously paid with bills, the perception is that it is cheaper? And
therefore, businesses are raising prices because the perception of
price is lower?

Are people in Greece really this stupid? One euro is one euro,
regardless of whether it's a coin or a bill. If people are having
trouble transitioning from drachmas to euros, that's another story. I
fail to see how using a bill or a coin is going to help there.

Why should they start making low-denomination bills just because Greece
didn't keep up with their own money system and kept ridiculously-low
bills in circulation?

Paul

--
Paul Anderson
OpenVMS Engineering
Hewlett-Packard Company

? "Paul Anderson" ?????? ??? ??????
...
In article . com,
stonej wrote:

http://www.forbes.com/business/feeds...ap2118519.html

From the article:

On Thursday, Greek Development Minister Dimitris Sioufas said
low-denomination bills would help Europeans better understand the
value of the euro and deter businesses from overpricing basic items.

Are they saying that if people pay for an item with coins, where they
previously paid with bills, the perception is that it is cheaper?

Nope.
They are saying that older people who lived for decades with the drachmas
can better "feel" the value of the money if expressed in drachmas instead of
euros.
Same say the Italians, the French and quite every people in the EU.
And let's not forget UK that doesn't like to change its currency, one of the
reasons (maybe the smaller reason but nevertheless a reason) been that.

And
therefore, businesses are raising prices because the perception of
price is lower?

YES!
In Greece like in France, 100 drachmas "became" one euro, in France they say
one franc "became" one euro and so on...
Germans are protesting, too, and they say they want their mark back.
I don't think that people are stupid just because you can't get the essence
of the problem...

Are people in Greece really this stupid?

Yes Master Genius ;-)

One euro is one euro,
regardless of whether it's a coin or a bill.

Yeah, that's why Americans dislike the coin dollars and prefer to use the
dollar bills...
In your line of logic they must be stupid, too ;-)

If people are having
trouble transitioning from drachmas to euros, that's another story. I
fail to see how using a bill or a coin is going to help there.

Then pray tell why Americans prefer to use the bill instead of the coin ?...
It must help some people if they do that...

Why should they start making low-denomination bills just because Greece
didn't keep up with their own money system and kept ridiculously-low
bills in circulation?

Italy had even lower denominations but I see that you are not protesting
about "stupid" Italians...
Spain had small denominations quite like Greece.


PS
I am a Greek and I feel like that, so I must be stupid :-)...

--

E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and mo http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html
http://www.romclub.4t.com/rabin.html


Paul

--
Paul Anderson
OpenVMS Engineering
Hewlett-Packard Company

On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 03:04:28 +0300, "gogu"
wrote:

One euro is one euro,
regardless of whether it's a coin or a bill.

Yeah, that's why Americans dislike the coin dollars and prefer to use the
dollar bills...In your line of logic they must be stupid, too ;-)

Actually, it ìs stupid. Americans don't like dollar coins because they
are a nuisance. There's not enough of them to really make a dent, even
for those of us who would want to use them. Commerce refuses to
actually use them, despite banks who have "Got golden dollars" posters
and Wal Mart 'promotions' when the thing was first introduced. They're
a nuisance because there is still the more familiar ragbuck in common
use and is numerically FAR more numerous than the coins.

If we had no real choice but the dollar coin, we would "like" them as
much as any of the other uninspired currency types we've got.

If people are having
trouble transitioning from drachmas to euros, that's another story. I
fail to see how using a bill or a coin is going to help there.

Then pray tell why Americans prefer to use the bill instead of the coin ?...

Been addressed here lots of times. Americans dó like the dollar coin
-- very rare indeed is the experience where people actually DISlike
the dollar coin. We don't really "prefer" to use the dollar note --
it's simply the only viable choice we have at present, unless we
specifically hunt down and seek out dollar coins.

And anyway, we're not using a new currency system! I think his point
is how would a €1.oo note help the Greeks any more than a €1.oo coin
when the whole system is all new?

Why should they start making low-denomination bills just because Greece
didn't keep up with their own money system and kept ridiculously-low
bills in circulation?

Italy had even lower denominations but I see that you are not protesting
about "stupid" Italians...

I think he mentioned Italy.

Spain had small denominations quite like Greece.

Smallest peseta note denomination (as of 10 years ago when I was
there) was 1000. They had replaced the 200 and 500 pta notes with
coins by then -- the equivalent of about €2 and €5 -- even better than
present system, which offers a €5 note rather than a coin.

I am a Greek and I feel like that, so I must be stupid :-)...

Well, how would a one euro note help you come to grips with the new
system in a way that the present one euro coin can't?

Speaking as one of those reviled Merkins, I had absolutely no
difficulty with going from US$ to Spanish pesetas. I had no choice.

I guess the best thing you lot in general can do is 1) suck it up and
2) get over it. The drachma is gone, along with the peseta and lira.
Stop thinking in terms of drachmas and you'll be perfectly at home
with euros in about a week.

Padraic.

la cieurgeourea provoer mal trasfu
ast meiyoer ke 'l andrext ben trasfu.

? "Padraic Brown" ?????? ??? ??????
...
On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 03:04:28 +0300, "gogu"
wrote:

One euro is one euro,
regardless of whether it's a coin or a bill.

Yeah, that's why Americans dislike the coin dollars and prefer to use the
dollar bills...In your line of logic they must be stupid, too ;-)

Actually, it ìs stupid.

:-)
As Jesus said: "you said it" ;-)))

Americans don't like dollar coins because they
are a nuisance.

So, why Europeans should not feel the same nuisance for their one euro coins
?...
My pocket is some times so heavy that it makes it a hole ;-)

There's not enough of them to really make a dent, even
for those of us who would want to use them. Commerce refuses to
actually use them, despite banks who have "Got golden dollars" posters
and Wal Mart 'promotions' when the thing was first introduced. They're
a nuisance because there is still the more familiar ragbuck in common
use and is numerically FAR more numerous than the coins.

!
That's what I said about the old European currencies !
We all are used with our "old" money, so...
Just think what would happen if Americans would change their currency with a
*totally* new one like the euro !...

If we had no real choice but the dollar coin, we would "like" them as
much as any of the other uninspired currency types we've got.

Well, this is happening with Europeans but it will take some times for the
older people to accustom with the new currency.
I don't see something unusual to this...

If people are having
trouble transitioning from drachmas to euros, that's another story. I
fail to see how using a bill or a coin is going to help there.

Then pray tell why Americans prefer to use the bill instead of the coin
?...

Been addressed here lots of times. Americans dó like the dollar coin

My experience from a couple of threads here and from articles is different;
Americans dislike the dollar coin but they use it because they can't refuse
it.

-- very rare indeed is the experience where people actually DISlike
the dollar coin. We don't really "prefer" to use the dollar note --
it's simply the only viable choice we have at present, unless we
specifically hunt down and seek out dollar coins.

And anyway, we're not using a new currency system! I think his point
is how would a ?1.oo note help the Greeks any more than a ?1.oo coin
when the whole system is all new?

I have explained it how.
But as I also said, many people in the EU feel this way and not only the
Greeks are asking for a euro note...

Why should they start making low-denomination bills just because Greece
didn't keep up with their own money system and kept ridiculously-low
bills in circulation?

Italy had even lower denominations but I see that you are not protesting
about "stupid" Italians...

I think he mentioned Italy.

His quote is just above mine here, no Italy.
Maybe in another paragraph.

Spain had small denominations quite like Greece.

Smallest peseta note denomination (as of 10 years ago when I was
there) was 1000. They had replaced the 200 and 500 pta notes with
coins by then -- the equivalent of about ?2 and ?5 -- even better than
present system, which offers a ?5 note rather than a coin.

I am a Greek and I feel like that, so I must be stupid :-)...

Well, how would a one euro note help you come to grips with the new
system in a way that the present one euro coin can't?

The point is not that the euro note will help me the way you say, it will
just make people "feel" better the value of the money !

Speaking as one of those reviled Merkins, I had absolutely no
difficulty with going from US$ to Spanish pesetas. I had no choice.

And I have lived for years abroad, so I never had a problem with any foreign
currency.
But here we are not talking about me and you, we are talking about entire
countries, with many older persons...

I guess the best thing you lot in general can do is 1) suck it up and
2) get over it. The drachma is gone, along with the peseta and lira.
Stop thinking in terms of drachmas and you'll be perfectly at home
with euros in about a week.

???
Who said that I believe to a come back ?!
I know that euro is here to stay, so I don't understand you above quote...
I was jut talking about how people feel generally, not me !

A nice weekend to you, too...


--

E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and mo http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html
http://www.romclub.4t.com/rabin.html

Padraic.

la cieurgeourea provoer mal trasfu
ast meiyoer ke 'l andrext ben trasfu.

In article "gogu" writes:
....
Americans don't like dollar coins because they
are a nuisance.

So, why Europeans should not feel the same nuisance for their one euro coins
?...
My pocket is some times so heavy that it makes it a hole ;-)

I do not feel a nuisance at all. Currently I have exactly three coins in
my purse (1 euro, 50 cent and 20 cent). (Yes, I am using a purse that
contains all my money, it is about the size of a small key holder, and
sits perfectly well in my pocket. No loose change in my pockets.)

Just think what would happen if Americans would change their currency with a
*totally* new one like the euro !...

Consider what happened in the UK when they were going decimal (1970 I think).
I have seen it from close quarters.

If we had no real choice but the dollar coin, we would "like" them as
much as any of the other uninspired currency types we've got.

Well, this is happening with Europeans but it will take some times for the
older people to accustom with the new currency.
I don't see something unusual to this...

I see something unusual in this in the Greek and Italian government requiring
small denomination notes.

But as I also said, many people in the EU feel this way and not only the
Greeks are asking for a euro note...

No, the Greek and the Italian. I do not think that the Dutch, German, or
whatever would appreciate the introduction of a Euro note.
--
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/

On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 18:12:07 +0300, "gogu"
wrote:

? "Padraic Brown" ?????? ??? ??????
.. .
On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 03:04:28 +0300, "gogu"
wrote:

One euro is one euro,
regardless of whether it's a coin or a bill.

Yeah, that's why Americans dislike the coin dollars and prefer to use the
dollar bills...In your line of logic they must be stupid, too ;-)

Actually, it ìs stupid.

:-)
As Jesus said: "you said it" ;-)))

Americans don't like dollar coins because they
are a nuisance.

So, why Europeans should not feel the same nuisance for their one euro coins
?...

Because Europeans have had a long history of coind in denominations at
or _above_ the €1.oo level! I think I mentioned that Spain's smallest
circulating note was worth about €8 or thereabouts. Britains smallest
note is worth about the same. The US's smallest note is worth LESS
than a euro!

My pocket is some times so heavy that it makes it a hole ;-)

Change the coins for notes, or spend the coins.

There's not enough of them to really make a dent, even
for those of us who would want to use them. Commerce refuses to
actually use them, despite banks who have "Got golden dollars" posters
and Wal Mart 'promotions' when the thing was first introduced. They're
a nuisance because there is still the more familiar ragbuck in common
use and is numerically FAR more numerous than the coins.

!
That's what I said about the old European currencies !
We all are used with our "old" money, so...
Just think what would happen if Americans would change their currency with a
*totally* new one like the euro !...

I never said anything about "being used to" the ragbuck -- it's a
matter of numerical superiority and ubiquity in the cash stream. Very
few people are confused by dollar coins -- in other words, Americans
are quite "used to" them!

If we had no real choice but the dollar coin, we would "like" them as
much as any of the other uninspired currency types we've got.

Well, this is happening with Europeans but it will take some times for the
older people to accustom with the new currency.
I don't see something unusual to this...

I don't either -- they should be quite used to it! Anyway, once you
lot "get over it", get through your grieving process, you'll have no
problem thinking in euros.

If people are having
trouble transitioning from drachmas to euros, that's another story. I
fail to see how using a bill or a coin is going to help there.

Then pray tell why Americans prefer to use the bill instead of the coin
?...

Been addressed here lots of times. Americans dó like the dollar coin

My experience from a couple of threads here and from articles is different;
Americans dislike the dollar coin but they use it because they can't refuse
it.

A "couple of threads" indeed have featured disgruntled Americans who
drag out the same old arguments (coins are "too heavy", "mistaken for
a quarter", etc). The vast majority of posts and threads regarding the
use of dollar coins in the US have been positive or at least neutral.

-- very rare indeed is the experience where people actually DISlike
the dollar coin. We don't really "prefer" to use the dollar note --
it's simply the only viable choice we have at present, unless we
specifically hunt down and seek out dollar coins.

And anyway, we're not using a new currency system! I think his point
is how would a ?1.oo note help the Greeks any more than a ?1.oo coin
when the whole system is all new?

I have explained it how.

I guess it didn't register...

But as I also said, many people in the EU feel this way and not only the
Greeks are asking for a euro note...

Why should they start making low-denomination bills just because Greece
didn't keep up with their own money system and kept ridiculously-low
bills in circulation?

Italy had even lower denominations but I see that you are not protesting
about "stupid" Italians...

I think he mentioned Italy.

His quote is just above mine here, no Italy.
Maybe in another paragraph.

Probably so. I recall someone mentioning Italy.

Spain had small denominations quite like Greece.

Smallest peseta note denomination (as of 10 years ago when I was
there) was 1000. They had replaced the 200 and 500 pta notes with
coins by then -- the equivalent of about ?2 and ?5 -- even better than
present system, which offers a ?5 note rather than a coin.

I am a Greek and I feel like that, so I must be stupid :-)...

Well, how would a one euro note help you come to grips with the new
system in a way that the present one euro coin can't?

The point is not that the euro note will help me the way you say, it will
just make people "feel" better the value of the money !

??? OK, whatever!

Speaking as one of those reviled Merkins, I had absolutely no
difficulty with going from US$ to Spanish pesetas. I had no choice.

And I have lived for years abroad, so I never had a problem with any foreign
currency.

Good!

But here we are not talking about me and you, we are talking about entire
countries, with many older persons...

They'll get used to it, too.

I guess the best thing you lot in general can do is 1) suck it up and
2) get over it. The drachma is gone, along with the peseta and lira.
Stop thinking in terms of drachmas and you'll be perfectly at home
with euros in about a week.

???
Who said that I believe to a come back ?!

No one I am aware of, why?

I know that euro is here to stay, so I don't understand you above quote...
I was jut talking about how people feel generally, not me !

Exactly. I'm not necessarily addressing you _personally_, just you as
a representative from Greece!

A nice weekend to you, too...

Same!

Padraic.

la cieurgeourea provoer mal trasfu
ast meiyoer ke 'l andrext ben trasfu.

stonej wrote:

http://www.forbes.com/business/feeds...ap2118519.html

Guess that game will go on and on g. The Italian government will claim
that the Italians still want low value notes, and the European Central
bank says No again. Shortly afterwards the Greek government will say
that people in their country want low value notes, and the ECB - see
above. And so on. I find it somewhat odd that almost four years after
the introduction of the cash, some people in GR and IT still have not
gotten used to the cash, but in any case, why should the rest of
Euroland have to deal with such rag euros?

Christian

? "Christian Feldhaus" ?????? ??? ??????
. ..
stonej wrote:

http://www.forbes.com/business/feeds...ap2118519.html

Guess that game will go on and on g. The Italian government will claim
that the Italians still want low value notes, and the European Central
bank says No again. Shortly afterwards the Greek government will say
that people in their country want low value notes, and the ECB - see
above. And so on. I find it somewhat odd that almost four years after
the introduction of the cash, some people in GR and IT still have not
gotten used to the cash, but in any case, why should the rest of
Euroland have to deal with such rag euros?


Christian, I've read lately that even the Germans are asking for their Mark
back not to mention the French !
So it's not only the Greeks, the Italians, the French or the Germans but -I
believe- every older person in euroland.
But I agree with you: "the game will go on and on" but there is no chance to
go back to the old currencies.
Euro is here to stay.

--

E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and mo http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html
http://www.romclub.4t.com/rabin.html

Christian

In article "gogu" writes:
....
So it's not only the Greeks, the Italians, the French or the Germans but -I
believe- every older person in euroland.

I think I figure in the group of older persons. No, I do not want back
the old currency. On the other hand, I do not see how a change to low
denomination notes will change anything. I think the problem is that
some people perceive that when something is a note it is suddenly
expensive, while you can spend coins as you wish. The common perception
of the people that want to go back to the old currency is that the Euro
makes everything more expensive, and that is a (common) fallacy. It is
not the Euro, but the abuse some branches in commerce made when changing
to the Euro. Changing back to the original currency will *again*
increase prices. In the Netherlands I have seen the change of the 1 gulden,
2 1/2 gulden and 5 gulden notes to coins without a perceptible change in
appreciation. On the other hand I have in my collection rag-notes from
countries that have (and had) no real value at all.
--
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/