Difference between fluorescent and Phosphorised Papers

I am trying to sort my Singapore Ships series definitives. upon having my UV
light shone on them, some look very dull, whereas some looked yellow, some
blue. So, can anyone tell me which is which?

Thanks in advance

--
Alfred Lee

dear Alfred,

with fluorescence under the UV-lamp there is a glow that disappears
immediately when you remove the UV-source, when there is a (short)
afterglow after having removed the UV you have phosphorescence.

Fluorescence quit often results from optical brightening agents in the
base paper itself or in the coating. The colour is usually bluish white.
Any other colour - yellow, green, red - indicates a special purpose for
the postal administration. You may find stamps that have a fluorescent
coating on a non-fluorescent base paper [most often] or the other way
around (occasionally, some Polish stamps around 1996).

Phosphorescence is hardly ever incidentally present, it usually serves a
postal purpose, the colour in the afterglow may be yellow, red
[Australia], green, orange [some Dutch], etc. Although the base paper may
have optical brightening agents in it, the coating usually has them too.
This results in the above colours being weaker or - in the case of yellow
- looking whitish. Used, soaken off stamps may acquire OBA's from the
enveloppe, but also may loose the OBA from the coating and then appear
more yellowish than in the case of mint stamps.

In the case of your Singaporian (Singaporese ?) stamps the bluish may
indicate just OBA in the coating, the yellow phosphorescence [but make
sure that there is a afterglow!]

in the late sixties or early seventies, some countries found themselves
having issued phosphorescent stamps. Malaysia as far as I can remember it
right. It turned out that the stamp printers had made a mistake! In 1985
the Dutch stamp printers used paper meant for Australia (1982 stamp
booklets, red phosphorescence) for the Dutch Churches stamp booklets apart
from the usual stamp paper with yellow phosphorescence. Both type of paper
had the Harrison and Sons prefix HS3 1630 ... Hence the confusion at Joh.
Enschede's printing works. I first confronted the managing director with
the occurence of both papers, and later on he had to admit to what went
wrong and how

groetjes, Rein

Op Mon, 26 Feb 2007 06:24:03 +0100 schreef Alfred Lee
:

I am trying to sort my Singapore Ships series definitives. upon having
my UV
light shone on them, some look very dull, whereas some looked yellow,
some
blue. So, can anyone tell me which is which?

Thanks in advance




--
Gemaakt met Opera's revolutionaire e-mailprogramma:
http://www.opera.com/mail/

Thanks Rein

That was really helpful and informative.

--
Alfred Lee

"Rein" wrote in message
news
dear Alfred,

with fluorescence under the UV-lamp there is a glow that disappears
immediately when you remove the UV-source, when there is a (short)
afterglow after having removed the UV you have phosphorescence.

Fluorescence quit often results from optical brightening agents in the
base paper itself or in the coating. The colour is usually bluish white.
Any other colour - yellow, green, red - indicates a special purpose for
the postal administration. You may find stamps that have a fluorescent
coating on a non-fluorescent base paper [most often] or the other way
around (occasionally, some Polish stamps around 1996).

Phosphorescence is hardly ever incidentally present, it usually serves a
postal purpose, the colour in the afterglow may be yellow, red
[Australia], green, orange [some Dutch], etc. Although the base paper may
have optical brightening agents in it, the coating usually has them too.
This results in the above colours being weaker or - in the case of
ellow - looking whitish. Used, soaken off stamps may acquire OBA's from
the enveloppe, but also may loose the OBA from the coating and then
appear more yellowish than in the case of mint stamps.

In the case of your Singaporian (Singaporese ?) stamps the bluish may
indicate just OBA in the coating, the yellow phosphorescence [but make
sure that there is a afterglow!]

in the late sixties or early seventies, some countries found themselves
having issued phosphorescent stamps. Malaysia as far as I can remember it
right. It turned out that the stamp printers had made a mistake! In 1985
the Dutch stamp printers used paper meant for Australia (1982 stamp
booklets, red phosphorescence) for the Dutch Churches stamp booklets apart
from the usual stamp paper with yellow phosphorescence. Both type of paper
had the Harrison and Sons prefix HS3 1630 ... Hence the confusion at Joh.
Enschede's printing works. I first confronted the managing director with
the occurence of both papers, and later on he had to admit to what went
wrong and how

groetjes, Rein

Op Mon, 26 Feb 2007 06:24:03 +0100 schreef Alfred Lee
:

I am trying to sort my Singapore Ships series definitives. upon having
my UV
light shone on them, some look very dull, whereas some looked yellow,
some
blue. So, can anyone tell me which is which?

Thanks in advance




--
Gemaakt met Opera's revolutionaire e-mailprogramma:
http://www.opera.com/mail/

Ha you're right on that. I bought a short wave lighthouse UV lamp, battery
operated. And it isnt very helpful.

Thats why my machins stay in the box, unsorted.

Better stay in the pre-war years where I only have to worry about grey green
or dull green, or orange yellow or yellowish orange.

Hahaha

--
Alfred Lee

Email :
"Sir F. A. Rien" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 28 Feb 2007 08:39:54 +0800, "Alfred Lee"
found these unused words floating about:

Thanks Rein

That was really helpful and informative.

Be thankful you aren't dealing with the GB Phosphors on the early QEII
definitives.

There are three colours of afterglow and the Violet is as short
persistence
as flourescence of the paper!

G

On 28 Feb, 03:32, "Alfred Lee" wrote:
Ha you're right on that. I bought a short wave lighthouse UV lamp, battery
operated. And it isnt very helpful.

There's a knack for Machins and many other stamps with dim phosphors
including the Canadian Queen's head definitives:-
1) Go into totally dark room
2) Close eyes
3) Turn on lamp close to stamp
4) Count slowly to 10
5) Turn off lamp and open eyes immediately to catch a glimpse of the
bands before they fade.

But often you can see the bands on Machins by forgetting the lamp and
holding the stamp at the right angle in ordinary light.

Chris

Using an Australian bent,
the SG359 (1 pound George Bass and whaleboat)
has a cream and white paper variance.

Under UV light, the cream paper flouresces much more brightly
than the white paper issue.

Same with the 5/- cattle industry IIRC.





"Alfred Lee" wrote in message
...
I am trying to sort my Singapore Ships series definitives. upon having my
UV
light shone on them, some look very dull, whereas some looked yellow, some
blue. So, can anyone tell me which is which?

Thanks in advance

--
Alfred Lee

"Sir F. A. Rien" wrote in message
...
On 27 Feb 2007 18:55:09 -0800, found
these
unused words floating about:

On 28 Feb, 03:32, "Alfred Lee" wrote:
Ha you're right on that. I bought a short wave lighthouse UV
lamp, battery
operated. And it isnt very helpful.

There's a knack for Machins and many other stamps with dim
phosphors
including the Canadian Queen's head definitives:-
1) Go into totally dark room
2) Close eyes
3) Turn on lamp close to stamp
4) Count slowly to 10
5) Turn off lamp and open eyes immediately to catch a glimpse of
the
bands before they fade.

But often you can see the bands on Machins by forgetting the lamp
and
holding the stamp at the right angle in ordinary light.

Chris

But that doesn't work well for the early phosphors (Violet) on the
Wildings.
It's gone before you can focus and you need to determine two
different
widths of bands!


You don't have to measure the width while they are phosphorescing! You
can do so while they are fluorescing and either a short- or long-wave
lamp will do for this. (Same with the Machins.)

Douglas

On Feb 27, 11:11?pm, "Rod" wrote:
Using an Australian bent,
the SG359 (1 pound George Bass and whaleboat)
has a cream and white paper variance.

Under UV light, the cream paper flouresces much more brightly
than the white paper issue.

Same with the 5/- cattle industry IIRC.

"Alfred Lee" wrote in message

...



I am trying to sort my Singapore Ships series definitives. upon having my
UV
light shone on them, some look very dull, whereas some looked yellow, some
blue. So, can anyone tell me which is which?

Thanks in advance

--
Alfred Lee- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I just had to jump in and throw more fuel on the fire,,,the Exportas
of Mexico, what a mess. I gave up. At one point they threw in some
recycled some phosphor paper and as a result the stamp may have
phosphor or may not. It may be just a minute fleck or a good splash.

Ralphael, the OLD one

"Sir F. A. Rien" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 2 Mar 2007 12:35:11 -0000, "Douglas Myall"

found these unused words floating about:


"Sir F. A. Rien" wrote in message
.. .
On 27 Feb 2007 18:55:09 -0800, found
these
unused words floating about:

On 28 Feb, 03:32, "Alfred Lee" wrote:
Ha you're right on that. I bought a short wave lighthouse UV
lamp, battery
operated. And it isnt very helpful.

There's a knack for Machins and many other stamps with dim
phosphors
including the Canadian Queen's head definitives:-
1) Go into totally dark room
2) Close eyes
3) Turn on lamp close to stamp
4) Count slowly to 10
5) Turn off lamp and open eyes immediately to catch a glimpse of
the
bands before they fade.

But often you can see the bands on Machins by forgetting the
lamp
and
holding the stamp at the right angle in ordinary light.

Chris

But that doesn't work well for the early phosphors (Violet) on
the
Wildings.
It's gone before you can focus and you need to determine two
different
widths of bands!


You don't have to measure the width while they are phosphorescing!
You
can do so while they are fluorescing and either a short- or
long-wave
lamp will do for this. (Same with the Machins.)

Douglas

Guess my SG dual lamp isn't powerful enough then as the Violets
immediately
"pop off" when the lamp's removed or light shuttered.

The whole point about fluorescence and why it differs from
phosphorescence is that you do NOT switch the lamp off. You then have
as much time as you want to measure the widths, as long as the battery
will last if you need it.

Douglas

"Sir F. A. Rien" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 4 Mar 2007 14:22:11 -0000, "Douglas Myall"

found these unused words floating about:


"Sir F. A. Rien" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 2 Mar 2007 12:35:11 -0000, "Douglas Myall"

found these unused words floating about:


"Sir F. A. Rien" wrote in message
.. .
On 27 Feb 2007 18:55:09 -0800,
found
these
unused words floating about:

On 28 Feb, 03:32, "Alfred Lee" wrote:
Ha you're right on that. I bought a short wave lighthouse
UV
lamp, battery
operated. And it isnt very helpful.

There's a knack for Machins and many other stamps with dim
phosphors
including the Canadian Queen's head definitives:-
1) Go into totally dark room
2) Close eyes
3) Turn on lamp close to stamp
4) Count slowly to 10
5) Turn off lamp and open eyes immediately to catch a glimpse
of
the
bands before they fade.

But often you can see the bands on Machins by forgetting the
lamp
and
holding the stamp at the right angle in ordinary light.

Chris

But that doesn't work well for the early phosphors (Violet) on
the
Wildings.
It's gone before you can focus and you need to determine two
different
widths of bands!


You don't have to measure the width while they are
phosphorescing!
You
can do so while they are fluorescing and either a short- or
long-wave
lamp will do for this. (Same with the Machins.)

Douglas

Guess my SG dual lamp isn't powerful enough then as the Violets
immediately
"pop off" when the lamp's removed or light shuttered.

The whole point about fluorescence and why it differs from
phosphorescence is that you do NOT switch the lamp off. You then
have
as much time as you want to measure the widths, as long as the
battery
will last if you need it.

Douglas

Exactly my point ! {See #5 above}

Your point that I was responding to is reproduced below:

"But that doesn't work well for the early phosphors (Violet) on the
Wildings. It's gone before you can focus and you need to determine two
different widths of bands!"

Are you contradicting yourself?

Douglas