Counterfeit detection primer -- periodic post

Reid ranted as follows:

... not to mention his maturity,
exemplified by among other things his taking a picture of me from my
Web site, defacing it, then putting it on his Web site.

This is rich.

Here is Reid's page:
http://www.netaxs.com/~reidgold/column/IndexFrame.html

and this is another of Reid's pages.
http://www.netaxs.com/~reidgold/column/reid_pinch.html

Please note the howl of pot calling kettle black.

ulsion (Phil DeMayo) wrote in message ...
wrote:

This is yet another periodic response to more periodic gibberish from
Phil DeMayo about this periodic post on counterfeit coins.

You want to get personal Reid?

Reid Goldsborough is a lying a-hole.

So you've now adapted Alan Williams' technique. You catch him in a
lie, and he says, I'm not lying, you are. Then tries to start yet
another flamewar with more lies. Inane and pathetic waste of time.

But beyond this little temper tantrum of yours, what you need to lose
most of all are these Perry mason pretentions. You're so wrong about
the law and how it's interpreted, so ignorant that you have no clue
even about how little you know. You can't just parrot what you read
online and declare, without reservation, without condition, without
limitation, without exception, that such and such is illegal. The law
is complicated, which is why it takes three years of study before
people can do what you try to do here, repeatedly and foolishly,
without any training. But enough. Discussion with you about this
subject is futile and always has been.

--

Email: (delete "remove this")

Coin Collecting: Consumer Protection Guide:
http://rg.ancients.info/guide
Glomming: Coin Connoisseurship: http://rg.ancients.info/glom
Bogos: Counterfeit Coins: http://rg.ancients.info/bogos

wrote:

But beyond this little temper tantrum of yours, what you need to
lose most of all are these Perry mason pretentions. You're so
wrong about the law and how it's interpreted....

Are you forgetting we once had a vote and your interpretation of the law
lost...badly. I believe it may have been termed a landslide ;-)


++++++++++
Phil DeMayo - always here for my fellow Stooge
When bidding online always sit on your helmet
Just say NO to counterfeits

dml3dm wrote:



The legalities regarding mere possession of these bogus coins aren't
clear. Two areas of U.S. law deal with counterfeit coins. Title 18,
Part I, Chapter 25 (Counterfeiting and Forgery) of the U.S. Code,
Sections 485, 489, and 492 deal with counterfeits of U.S. and world
coins. The Hobby Protection Act of 1973 (Title 15, Chapter 48,
Sections 2101 through 2106 of the U.S. Code, plus 1988 amendments)
deals with counterfeits of ancient coins.

Nothing in the above statutes says that simple possession of
counterfeits of collectible coins is illegal, and no court in the U.S.
has ever ruled on the legality of this. According to Armen R. Vartian,
the most visible numismatic legal expert in the U.S., "The statutes do
not criminalize the mere possession of counterfeit money."

What's more, no court case has ever specifically addressed the issue
of the legality of simple possession of counterfeits of collectible
coins, though some cases have touched upon this area in a tangential
way. For there to be "judicial clarity," a court ruling has to address
this issue specifically, according to Vartian, a lawyer, numismatist,
Coin World legal columnist, and author of the book A Legal Guide to
Buying and Selling Art and Collectibles.


(snip)

Although the Secret Service has confiscated high-visibility
collections of counterfeits of U.S. coins, this hasn't happened in
some 30 years. The ownership of counterfeits of collectible coins a
non-issue today in the eyes of the authorities, who understandably
devote their resources primarily toward going after those who make and
pass fake bills.



Standard Catalog of Counterfeit and Altered United States Coins
Virgil Hancock and Larry Spanbauer
Sanford J. Durst, 1979

It's a pity someone doesn't read the books listed in this post.

p. 44 of the book cited above:

"The 1894-S dime is, according to Mr. Yeoman, a real rarity, only 24
coins having been struck. Because of that great rarity, few attempts to
counterfeit it are made.

Any 1894 dime being offered should be subjected to such severe scrutiny
that the fake would be exposed, thus, no buyer.

In fact, the specimen shown here (enlarged) was offered by mail to a US
collector, and that's how it happened to be photo'd and then seized as
contraband by the US Secret Service. It's the specimen on which the
seller, a Filippino, hung the $50,000 price tag."

Alan
'you know, contraband?'

http://www.secretservice.gov/money_coins.shtml

Website acknowledges that coin counterfeiting is now primarily of
collectible coins.

Effective March 1, 2003 the U.S. Secret Service is moving to the
Department of Homeland Security and will no longer be a Bureau of the
Department of the Treasury. The U.S. Secret Service, in addition to
providing executive protection,investigates crimes involving U.S.
securities, coinage, other government issues, credit and debit card
fraud, and electronic funds transfer fraud.

http://www.secretservice.gov/investigations.shtml

Website says counterfeit investigation was the 'original mandate' and
that the 'primary enforcement jurisdictions' will increase in
significance in the 21st Century.

Alan
'they seem to care'

Alan & Erin Williams wrote in message ...

Alan
'they seem to care'

What is this, contagious? Yep, language at government Web sites equals
reality. In truth (I know you're big on truth), the reality of the
situation is as has been described here too many times. The Secret
Service devotes the vast majority of its resources to protecting the
country's money supply and the President, its dual mission. It devotes
very few resources and time, relatively speaking, to protecting the
numismatic marketplace, for reasons obvious to any sane person. It is
still under statuatory obligation to protect all legal tender, but in
the real world, in practice, what it wants to stop are those making
and trying to pass thousands of fake $100 bills, who are often
organized crime types and hostile foreign interests, not coin
collectors keeping a handful or couple of dozen fakes of old quarters
and half dollars in the house. It will go after those who *sell*
counterfeits of old coins as authentic coins, but even here there's a
fraud threshold below which it typically won't involve itself, and for
it to throw the book at the seller, it has to show that the seller was
knowingly selling counterfeits, that is, engaged in fraud (there are
ways it uses to make this determination). This is the real world --
how things work. But feel free to continue to present the real world
from what you read on the Web. It's very educational!

--

Email: (delete "remove this")

Coin Collecting: Consumer Protection Guide:
http://rg.ancients.info/guide
Glomming: Coin Connoisseurship: http://rg.ancients.info/glom
Bogos: Counterfeit Coins: http://rg.ancients.info/bogos

reidgoldsborough wrote:

But feel free to continue to present the real world
from what you read on the Web. It's very educational!

Hmmm.....didn't the Secret Service agent who recently contacted you regarding
counterfeits of collectible coins find you through the Web?



++++++++++
Phil DeMayo - always here for my fellow Stooge
When bidding online always sit on your helmet
Just say NO to counterfeits

From: (Reid Goldsborough)

but even here there's a
fraud threshold below which it typically won't involve itself, and for
it to throw the book at the seller, it

"it"?

Do you have an attribution for that "fraud threshold"? Or, is this another one
of those clever play-on-words like when you were refering to the Secret
Service's "counterfeit guy"?

Or have you actually fallen into the trap you accuse everyone else of, and are
merely "playing lawyer"?

--
mark

ustion (mark) wrote in message ...

Do you have an attribution for that "fraud threshold"? Or, is this another one
of those clever play-on-words like when you were refering to the Secret
Service's "counterfeit guy"?

With the way you post here, you are one of the very last people on
Earth I'd disclose my sources to, or actually provide any information
to. You were the one who has said that I don't interview people when I
quote them, all the rest. Pure bozodom.

--

Email: (delete "remove this")

Coin Collecting: Consumer Protection Guide:
http://rg.ancients.info/guide
Glomming: Coin Connoisseurship: http://rg.ancients.info/glom
Bogos: Counterfeit Coins: http://rg.ancients.info/bogos

From: (Reid Goldsborough)

With the way you post here,

And just what way is that?

you are one of the very last people on
Earth I'd disclose my sources to, or actually provide any information
to.

If you actually had any, I'd almost be worried.

You were the one who has said that I don't interview people when I
quote them, all the rest.

"people"?

I said I doubted that you spoke with an actual lawyer regarding the question of
copyrights of a photograph. So that would be "person", thank you.

And in your paranoia, you completely missed that my previous post was only
pointing out even more poor quality writing on your part.

--
mark