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#21
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KCat wrote:
... again. it is my "truth", my opinion, that for me the best use of a pen is well... use. Neither of my posts took issue with this at all. ... You asked why people were taking it so seriously, Actually, I said "personally" not "seriously." I explained why. that some took the wording as divisive. why should it be anymore complex than that? (not rhetorical and does have a question mark?) Good question. What's not to understand about this: "Serious collector," the way most collectors use the term, is not meant to be disparaging to anyone (people who are serious collectors and those of us who are not). ... Let's talk practically. I've been trying to do that and clearly I've been failing miserably. someone said something. Agreed. a couple of people took offense. Yepper. it doesn't matter whether they should have or shouldn't. I think this is the point at which our positions begin to diverge. The fact that they did *proves* IMO that the word has connotations. if it didn't, rightly or wrongly, we wouldn't be having this discussion. "Serious collector" captures the meaning in a parsimonious way... Can't imagine any other term one can use to describe these folks that couldn't be misconstrued in some way. Suffice it to say (?) that the term "serious collector" is widely used and accepted to connote a level of expertise that distinguishes him/her from most collectors. Is that ok, or is it still offensive? Hope you enjoyed your lunch... Bernadette |
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#22
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Clawhound wrote:
How about "high stakes?" Not everyone who spends a lot of money on pens is considered a "serious collector." Even a low stakes collector can be very serious about what he does and be as completely dedicated to collecting as the high stakes collectors, but the high-stakes collectors are simply playing at a different monetary level. I would agree with this. B |
#23
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" Anyone else keep non-functioning pens in their collection, or do you toss/trade/lose them if they don't work? If anyone does own a non-functioning pen, what's the most you'd pay (I'm guessing my threshhold is around $ 25 for a nice, unique pen)? Many of my pens are left intentionally "non-functioning." Rubber sacs produce sulfer as they age ("out gassing") that discolors most plastics. When you get an example with pefect color, why would you want to ruin it? I use "user grade" pens, and many that I "collect" are non-functioning. Dave |
#24
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"PENDEMONIUM" wrote in message ... snip ... it made no matter whether they worked and in fact many times the guts are stripped out in order not to risk potential damage. Then there are people like my dad who'd gut a fp, including the nib, so that he could store industrial-sized needles, thermometers, and such. sigh -- ~~Bluesea~~ Spam is great in musubi but not in email. Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply. |
#25
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Sam:
A great reply to the original question - thoughtful and eloquent, a pleasure to read. Dave |
#26
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Whoa, time-out, time-out. Have a kit-kat?
-- Best regards, Free Citizen http://www.freewebs.com/fpnet/ "BL" wrote in message ... KCat wrote: ... again. it is my "truth", my opinion, that for me the best use of a pen is well... use. Neither of my posts took issue with this at all. ... You asked why people were taking it so seriously, Actually, I said "personally" not "seriously." I explained why. that some took the wording as divisive. why should it be anymore complex than that? (not rhetorical and does have a question mark?) Good question. What's not to understand about this: "Serious collector," the way most collectors use the term, is not meant to be disparaging to anyone (people who are serious collectors and those of us who are not). ... Let's talk practically. I've been trying to do that and clearly I've been failing miserably. someone said something. Agreed. a couple of people took offense. Yepper. it doesn't matter whether they should have or shouldn't. I think this is the point at which our positions begin to diverge. The fact that they did *proves* IMO that the word has connotations. if it didn't, rightly or wrongly, we wouldn't be having this discussion. "Serious collector" captures the meaning in a parsimonious way... Can't imagine any other term one can use to describe these folks that couldn't be misconstrued in some way. Suffice it to say (?) that the term "serious collector" is widely used and accepted to connote a level of expertise that distinguishes him/her from most collectors. Is that ok, or is it still offensive? Hope you enjoyed your lunch... Bernadette |
#27
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An interesting view on the trend of pen collecting these days. The way I see
it, there will always be the 'traditional pen collector'. Meaning, these collectors accumulate specimens same as a numismatist would for old money and medals. Most do it to 'amuse' themselves as they derive great enjoyment out of it. Sharing with like minded friends about the historical value of their collection and so forth. A small number do this professionally. Acquiring to sell to enthusiasts. Many of this later group do it as a labour of love and most take the trouble to acquire the skill to service these pens even. However, there are also the profiteer that are not collectors themselves. These should be avoided. A person who have no love for the hobby can't possibly care well for the pen. For me, I am a user and I do not think I will ever be a collector. Although I have just embarked on the route to acquire old pens. I now have about 30 to 40 modern pens but I don't consider them to be my collection. Since I use all of them and some of them have been out of production for many years. To me, a pen is meant to be used. It is so pitiful when they aren't. I guess the Toy Story 2 bug caught me -- Best regards, Free Citizen http://www.freewebs.com/fpnet/ "PENDEMONIUM" wrote in message ... I always find this an interesting discussion and a good reminder to me that pen collecting has changed a lot over the years and the term pen collector seems to be ever evolving. About 10 years or so ago when people first started talking pens online, the majority were collectors - we gathered pens, function was not a concern, in fact most vintage pens did not work. The concern was the historical aspect of the pens; researching, identifying - it made no matter whether they worked and in fact many times the guts are stripped out in order not to risk potential damage. I still tell people that if they're going to collect a pen and never use it to remove the sac or diaphragm and eliminate much of the risk of altering condition. I don't think that pen collecting totally relates to value of the pen, ie: serious collectors don't necessarily collect just expensive pens. I have some of those, but some of my favorites are unsual examples that just aren't easily found - weird colors, prototypes, stuff like that - many of these would hold relatively low value to another collector and the market in general because they aren't always well documented or well known. Not so long ago, it was a novel idea to actually use these vintage pens! When there were questions about condition, that didn't involve whther it worked or not! So, I guess I'm a serious pen collector in this respect because I do collect pens that I would never dream of writing with. On most of the online pen forums now, talk focuses around new pens and restored to writability vintage pens. I collect those, too. But the pens I buy to write with are just that - they aren't ones that I consider part of my pen collection. Some are new, some are old, but the sole reason I buy them is becaue I like the way they write. So, I have a collection of historical pens and I have another collection of pens I like to write with. Easy enough to do both. I think there are an awful lot of people in our pen community who cross over into collecting from a historical standpoint and collecting pens to use on an everyday basis. Nothing wrong with doing either, you just have to remember who you're talking to and what they're talking about when they say they are a "pen collector", a term that has come to have many meanings. Just some food for thought ... Sam |
#28
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It doesn't really seem that "serious collector" has a functional
definition for the purposes of conversation. Maybe that's just as well. Personally, I get along better with light hearted collectors of any objet d'homage. |
#29
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Hi, All,
Sam Fiorella's perspective was very valuable. I'd like to speak to both topics in this thread. When I started collecting fountain pens a little more than 25 years ago, I repaired every pen I owned except those that required lathes and exotic tools (e.g. Sheaffer and Eversharp plunger fillers, Post Pens, and all safeties). I did then and still do consider all of my pens "users" whether they come in the box with price stickers or not. Pens were made for writing. To see one lying unused is, to me, a kind of crime against nature. :-) Some of my pens still are non-functioning. I've never used a Moore's Non-Leakable as anything other than a dip pen and I still have trouble considering any plunger filled Sheaffer a "good buy" if it costs more than $5.00, but I have many of them nonetheless. So the short answer is that I do collect non-functioning pens in the hope of having them back in working order one day. As for who is a "serious" collector and who isn't...well, I think that a truly serious collector is definitely in need of medication and restraints. :-) Collecting ANYTHING is a pretty absurd passtime. That striving for order and control in a chaotic world is at once understandable and silly. The obsession in volved in getting one of every color of Sheaffer Balance or Parker 51 is definitely hilarious. Every collector, myself included is simply a loony rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. If a collector is so serious that he can't step back and see the absurdities in all of this endeavor, then he's really close to being a danger to himself and others. :-) I will sit down and examine imprints with a magnifier for hours or read pen literature rather than a good novel. I have I-don't-know-how-many Red Parker Duofold Seniors from the 1920's because there's something - maybe just the die for the barrel imprint or the way the tails in the Lucky Curve banner curl - something different about every one. It's absurd, but that's what we do when we collect. I haven't ever paid more than $1,000. for a pen, but I've paid $800. for a pen case, a 2-dozen, countertop pen case to put pens in. And I'd happily have paid all the money recently tossed to the seller of that A.A. Waterman Snake pen on Ebay if I could afford to toss that kind of money around. But I don't think that there's anything "serious" at all about collecting. It's all crazy and that's the way I want to be. :-) And as for KCat and her 18 pens...what's the matter with her? She sounds sane! Heavens! We can't have that! ONLY 18 pens, indeed! The woman must be stopped before she infects us all! 8-D Take care, Rob Astyk |
#30
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Rob Astyk wrote:
... I think that a truly serious collector is definitely in need of medication and restraints. :-) ... I will sit down and examine imprints with a magnifier for hours or read pen literature rather than a good novel. I have I-don't-know-how-many Red Parker Duofold Seniors from the 1920's because there's something - maybe just the die for the barrel imprint or the way the tails in the Lucky Curve banner curl - something different about every one. It's absurd, but that's what we do when we collect.... Now that Rob has explained some of the kinds of things serious collectors do, next time you hear someone mention "serious collector," perhaps you'll chuckle instead of taking offense. The word does have connotations, and they're rip-roariously funny. -- Bernadette |
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