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Greece urges ECB to issue low denomination Euro notes



 
 
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  #21  
Old July 2nd 05, 03:31 AM
Padraic Brown
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On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 18:12:07 +0300, "gogu"
wrote:

? "Padraic Brown" ?????? ??? ??????
.. .
On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 03:04:28 +0300, "gogu"
wrote:

One euro is one euro,
regardless of whether it's a coin or a bill.

Yeah, that's why Americans dislike the coin dollars and prefer to use the
dollar bills...In your line of logic they must be stupid, too ;-)


Actually, it μs stupid.


:-)
As Jesus said: "you said it" ;-)))

Americans don't like dollar coins because they
are a nuisance.


So, why Europeans should not feel the same nuisance for their one euro coins
?...


Because Europeans have had a long history of coind in denominations at
or _above_ the €1.oo level! I think I mentioned that Spain's smallest
circulating note was worth about €8 or thereabouts. Britains smallest
note is worth about the same. The US's smallest note is worth LESS
than a euro!

My pocket is some times so heavy that it makes it a hole ;-)


Change the coins for notes, or spend the coins.

There's not enough of them to really make a dent, even
for those of us who would want to use them. Commerce refuses to
actually use them, despite banks who have "Got golden dollars" posters
and Wal Mart 'promotions' when the thing was first introduced. They're
a nuisance because there is still the more familiar ragbuck in common
use and is numerically FAR more numerous than the coins.


!
That's what I said about the old European currencies !
We all are used with our "old" money, so...
Just think what would happen if Americans would change their currency with a
*totally* new one like the euro !...


I never said anything about "being used to" the ragbuck -- it's a
matter of numerical superiority and ubiquity in the cash stream. Very
few people are confused by dollar coins -- in other words, Americans
are quite "used to" them!

If we had no real choice but the dollar coin, we would "like" them as
much as any of the other uninspired currency types we've got.


Well, this is happening with Europeans but it will take some times for the
older people to accustom with the new currency.
I don't see something unusual to this...


I don't either -- they should be quite used to it! Anyway, once you
lot "get over it", get through your grieving process, you'll have no
problem thinking in euros.

If people are having
trouble transitioning from drachmas to euros, that's another story. I
fail to see how using a bill or a coin is going to help there.


Then pray tell why Americans prefer to use the bill instead of the coin
?...


Been addressed here lots of times. Americans dσ like the dollar coin


My experience from a couple of threads here and from articles is different;
Americans dislike the dollar coin but they use it because they can't refuse
it.


A "couple of threads" indeed have featured disgruntled Americans who
drag out the same old arguments (coins are "too heavy", "mistaken for
a quarter", etc). The vast majority of posts and threads regarding the
use of dollar coins in the US have been positive or at least neutral.

-- very rare indeed is the experience where people actually DISlike
the dollar coin. We don't really "prefer" to use the dollar note --
it's simply the only viable choice we have at present, unless we
specifically hunt down and seek out dollar coins.

And anyway, we're not using a new currency system! I think his point
is how would a ?1.oo note help the Greeks any more than a ?1.oo coin
when the whole system is all new?


I have explained it how.


I guess it didn't register...

But as I also said, many people in the EU feel this way and not only the
Greeks are asking for a euro note...

Why should they start making low-denomination bills just because Greece
didn't keep up with their own money system and kept ridiculously-low
bills in circulation?


Italy had even lower denominations but I see that you are not protesting
about "stupid" Italians...


I think he mentioned Italy.


His quote is just above mine here, no Italy.
Maybe in another paragraph.


Probably so. I recall someone mentioning Italy.

Spain had small denominations quite like Greece.


Smallest peseta note denomination (as of 10 years ago when I was
there) was 1000. They had replaced the 200 and 500 pta notes with
coins by then -- the equivalent of about ?2 and ?5 -- even better than
present system, which offers a ?5 note rather than a coin.

I am a Greek and I feel like that, so I must be stupid :-)...


Well, how would a one euro note help you come to grips with the new
system in a way that the present one euro coin can't?


The point is not that the euro note will help me the way you say, it will
just make people "feel" better the value of the money !


??? OK, whatever!

Speaking as one of those reviled Merkins, I had absolutely no
difficulty with going from US$ to Spanish pesetas. I had no choice.


And I have lived for years abroad, so I never had a problem with any foreign
currency.


Good!

But here we are not talking about me and you, we are talking about entire
countries, with many older persons...


They'll get used to it, too.

I guess the best thing you lot in general can do is 1) suck it up and
2) get over it. The drachma is gone, along with the peseta and lira.
Stop thinking in terms of drachmas and you'll be perfectly at home
with euros in about a week.


???
Who said that I believe to a come back ?!


No one I am aware of, why?

I know that euro is here to stay, so I don't understand you above quote...
I was jut talking about how people feel generally, not me !


Exactly. I'm not necessarily addressing you _personally_, just you as
a representative from Greece!

A nice weekend to you, too...


Same!

Padraic.

la cieurgeourea provoer mal trasfu
ast meiyoer ke 'l andrext ben trasfu.
Ads
  #22  
Old July 2nd 05, 12:09 PM
Christian Feldhaus
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Dik T. Winter wrote:

I never said that *all* older persons do want that Dik ;-)


You said, explicitly, *every* older person in euroland.


Wrong - he wrote that he *believes* that every older person, etc. ;-)

Actually I do not think that it is a question of age - somebody who is
60 or 70 may well appreciate the currency union while a person is his
20s or her 30s may be against it. I for one, somewhere in between age
wise, still think that the common currency has, all in all, a positive
effect.

On the other hand, well, I also believed that it would help building a
more closely integrated Europe since a common currency will not work in
the long run without further harmonization. And due to recent
developments in the European Union I do not believe any longer that
EUrope is actually willing to move on in that regard. Will be
interesting to see how long the euro can "survive" under these
conditions ...

Christian
  #23  
Old July 2nd 05, 12:09 PM
Christian Feldhaus
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Padraic Brown wrote:

Probably so. I recall someone mentioning Italy.


The article referred to in the original message actually does not
mention Italy. In my replies, for example, I did/do because it is
usually "voices" from the Greek and Italian governments that demand such
low value notes, regardless of whether people elsewhere in Euroland want
such rag euros ...

Christian
  #24  
Old July 5th 05, 12:09 AM
gogu
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? "Christian Feldhaus" ?????? ??? ??????
d...
gogu wrote:

Sure, and others blame the European Union for the effects of
globalization,



Well, that's stupid !


Agreed. But people sometimes prefer stupid theories over more complex
explanations g.


Very true...

At this point and for the shake of the truth, let's say that this was not
an
*official* demand from the Greek government but just an idea of a
minister...



Of course any minister is free to make such suggestions - and Mr Sioufas
has done that numerous times in the past weeks/months, but it would have
been helpful to read what the position of the Greek government is in
that regard.


I don't think that the Minister of Finance or the PM would agree with him...
No serious politician would ask for such a stupid thing !
What Mr.. Sioufas is doing I am calling it "populism"...

When two ministers from the Italian populist and anti-EU party "Lega
Nord", Mr Maroni and Mr Calderoli, recently even suggested replacing the
euro with a national currency in Italy, Mr Berlusconi's quick response
was a No.


Well, Karamanlis is a person of few words, so everybody understands that
his silence is translated to a sound "Mr. Sioufas go and put your head under
running water" ;-)
The comment was so stupid that the PM or the MF didn't even bother to
answer...
The river is going only one way and it never turns back (at least
naturally...).

Well, I am sure that somebody like Berlusconi will change his
mind quickly once he sees an opportunity of winning elections by bashing
EUrope ;-) But at least we now know that the position of the Lega Nord
is not shared by the other coalition parties.


True.

Maybe it would help if GR and IT issued such rag euros themselves,
which
would then (just as the ¤5, ¤10, etc. collector coins) be legal tender
in the issuing country only?


I disagree.
The euro system must be the same along whole euroland.



That is what I would have said too. But the Dutch 5 euro coins or the
German 10 euro pieces, for example, are collector coins which can be had
at face value.


Oh come on Christian, that's over-stretched ;-)
Of course they are "legal tender" but how many people have you seen using
them ?!

Thus they (theoretically g) circulate but in the
issuing country only. If a similar deal could be made regarding low
value notes, that could address Mr Sioufas's concerns ...


Mr. Sioufas is a bozo IMHO ;-)


--

E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and mo http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html
http://www.romclub.4t.com/rabin.html

Christian




  #25  
Old July 5th 05, 12:16 AM
gogu
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Ο "Dik T. Winter" έγραψε στο μήνυμα
...
In article "gogu"
writes:
...
Americans don't like dollar coins because they
are a nuisance.


So, why Europeans should not feel the same nuisance for their one euro
coins
?...
My pocket is some times so heavy that it makes it a hole ;-)



I do not feel a nuisance at all. Currently I have exactly three coins in
my purse (1 euro, 50 cent and 20 cent). (Yes, I am using a purse that
contains all my money, it is about the size of a small key holder, and
sits perfectly well in my pocket. No loose change in my pockets.)


I don't use a purse so my pockets feel quite uncomfortable with all those
change.
Some times I have 12 or even 15 euros in coins in my pockets !

Just think what would happen if Americans would change their currency
with a
*totally* new one like the euro !...


Consider what happened in the UK when they were going decimal (1970 I
think).
I have seen it from close quarters.


Not the same thing.
Pound it was, pound remained.
They've just turned to the decimal.
The euro is a totally new currency for every European in the euroland.

If we had no real choice but the dollar coin, we would "like" them as
much as any of the other uninspired currency types we've got.


Well, this is happening with Europeans but it will take some times for
the
older people to accustom with the new currency.
I don't see something unusual to this...


I see something unusual in this in the Greek and Italian government
requiring
small denomination notes.


Matter of opinions or scarce knowledge of the reality in those countries.
It happened to me to not understand a certain thing for a certain country,
but when I went there and lived for a little time I understood their point
of view...

But as I also said, many people in the EU feel this way and not only the
Greeks are asking for a euro note...


No, the Greek and the Italian.


Then please show me such an *official* demand from the respective
*governments* !

I do not think that the Dutch, German, or
whatever would appreciate the introduction of a Euro note.


I've read that they'd do but this is newspaper talk...

rgrds


--

E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and mo http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html
http://www.romclub.4t.com/rabin.html

--
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland,
+31205924131
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland;
http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/




  #26  
Old July 5th 05, 12:17 AM
gogu
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? "Padraic Brown" ?????? ??? ??????
...
On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 18:12:07 +0300, "gogu"
wrote:


My experience from a couple of threads here and from articles is
different;
Americans dislike the dollar coin but they use it because they can't
refuse
it.


A "couple of threads" indeed have featured disgruntled Americans who
drag out the same old arguments (coins are "too heavy", "mistaken for
a quarter", etc).


Same here.
Thank you for proving my point that no only Europeans but also many
Americans are not accustomed with the dollar coin. :-)


The vast majority of posts and threads regarding the
use of dollar coins in the US have been positive or at least neutral.


I remember reading on-line that the majority of the Americans are negative
to the dollar coins and that's why the US Mint did a huge campaign to make
people "trust" the dollar coin and start using it.
Am I wrong ?


The point is not that the euro note will help me the way you say, it will
just make people "feel" better the value of the money !


??? OK, whatever!


I am just reporting to you what people opposing the euro are saying.
And the truth is that we have somehow lost the notion of the value with the
euro: most of us are ashamed to leave a euro coin for a tip in a restaurant
but if we realize this is 340,75 drachmas -more than we let before euro-
then you can understand my above quote. A paper euro would make the 1 euro
"feel" more valuable.


But here we are not talking about me and you, we are talking about entire
countries, with many older persons...


They'll get used to it, too.


Sure they'll get used, maybe after they die ;-)

I know that euro is here to stay, so I don't understand you above quote...
I was jut talking about how people feel generally, not me !


Exactly. I'm not necessarily addressing you _personally_, just you as
a representative from Greece!


LOL
That would be too much :-)

rgrds


--

E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and mo http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html
http://www.romclub.4t.com/rabin.html



  #27  
Old July 5th 05, 12:24 AM
gogu
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Ο "Dik T. Winter" έγραψε στο μήνυμα
...
In article "gogu"
writes:
Ο "Dik T. Winter" έγραψε στο μήνυμα
...
In article "gogu"

writes:

...
So it's not only the Greeks, the Italians, the French or the Germans
but -I
believe- every older person in euroland.

I think I figure in the group of older persons. No, I do not want
back
the old currency.



I never said that *all* older persons do want that Dik ;-)


You said, explicitly, *every* older person in euroland.


I said that I *believe" that every older person ... etc, etc, etc...
But if you want it that way I have no problem to say that I stand corrected
:-)))
Let's say that it's better this way: "the vast majority" ... etc, etc, etc.

rgrds

--

E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and mo http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html
http://www.romclub.4t.com/rabin.html

--
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland,
+31205924131
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland;
http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/





  #28  
Old July 5th 05, 02:22 AM
Dik T. Winter
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Default

In article "gogu" writes:
? "Christian Feldhaus" ?????? ??? ??????
d...

....
That is what I would have said too. But the Dutch 5 euro coins or the
German 10 euro pieces, for example, are collector coins which can be had
at face value.


Oh come on Christian, that's over-stretched ;-)
Of course they are "legal tender" but how many people have you seen using
them ?!


You might be surprised in some time. Previously in the Netherlands 10 Gulden
commemorative coins were issued that could be bought at face value, and were
legal tender. They did not normally circulate, nevertheless, the first
such coins I found came from circulation. (It helped of course that I had at
that time a friend who managed his shop.) Some people buy these coins at
face with the expectation that the value will increase. When, after a number
of years, they find that is false, they will spend them.
--
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/
  #29  
Old July 5th 05, 02:33 AM
Dik T. Winter
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Default

In article "gogu" writes:
Ο "Dik T. Winter" έγραψε στο μήνυμα
...

....
I do not feel a nuisance at all. Currently I have exactly three coins in
my purse (1 euro, 50 cent and 20 cent). (Yes, I am using a purse that
contains all my money, it is about the size of a small key holder, and
sits perfectly well in my pocket. No loose change in my pockets.)


I don't use a purse so my pockets feel quite uncomfortable with all those
change.
Some times I have 12 or even 15 euros in coins in my pockets !


Spend them. Currently I have about 4 euros in coins. It ranges between
10 cent and 5 euro, or something like that.

Just think what would happen if Americans would change their currency
with a
*totally* new one like the euro !...


Consider what happened in the UK when they were going decimal (1970 I
think).
I have seen it from close quarters.


Not the same thing.
Pound it was, pound remained.


Only for paper money. *All* coins were subsequently changed. (Of course,
the new 50p, 10p and 5p coins retained their value, as did the equivalent
florin and shilling, but even that was much shorter than was common, as
the size was subsequently reduced for all three. Also the sixpence
retained its value during some time, but not very long. All other coins
had no value anymore.)

They've just turned to the decimal.
The euro is a totally new currency for every European in the euroland.


Well, so was the decimal pound in the UK.

But as I also said, many people in the EU feel this way and not only the
Greeks are asking for a euro note...


No, the Greek and the Italian.


Then please show me such an *official* demand from the respective
*governments* !


Show me a demand from some other country than Greece, Italy (and for some
time Austria).

I do not think that the Dutch, German, or
whatever would appreciate the introduction of a Euro note.


I've read that they'd do but this is newspaper talk...


Well, I do think that at least the Dutch or German people would not
appreciate it. At least, I have never read anyone supporting it.
It would be strange when the Dutch are accustomed to a smallest note
of 10 Gulden (about 5 Euro) since the 80s.
--
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/
  #30  
Old July 5th 05, 02:44 AM
gogu
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Posts: n/a
Default

Ο "Dik T. Winter" έγραψε στο μήνυμα
...
In article "gogu"
writes:
? "Christian Feldhaus" ?????? ??? ??????
d...

...
That is what I would have said too. But the Dutch 5 euro coins or the
German 10 euro pieces, for example, are collector coins which can be
had
at face value.



Oh come on Christian, that's over-stretched ;-)
Of course they are "legal tender" but how many people have you seen
using
them ?!



You might be surprised in some time. Previously in the Netherlands 10
Gulden
commemorative coins were issued that could be bought at face value, and
were
legal tender. They did not normally circulate, nevertheless, the first
such coins I found came from circulation. (It helped of course that I had
at
that time a friend who managed his shop.) Some people buy these coins at
face with the expectation that the value will increase. When, after a
number
of years, they find that is false, they will spend them.


I agree with you.
But I still haven't seen someone using such silver coins in everyday's
transactions.
Also agree that they will never increase in value.
With the help of a good friend from Holland I am buying the German 10 euro
coins at face value but I know they will never increase in value, I just
like them ;-)

rgrds


--

E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and mo http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html
http://www.romclub.4t.com/rabin.html


--
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland,
+31205924131
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland;
http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/



 




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