Tech: Need advice about a 1966 Wurlitzer Model 3010

Guys,


First off, I'm a pinball guy and I need some expert juke advice. I'm
going to go look at this juke on Saturday. I have only seen email pics
so far and the box looks nice. The seller says it works with the
exception of the volume is so low it can barely be heard. Is this
something serious or maybe just a bad capacitor? They are asking $600
and that includes the wall box. That seems a little high to
me......What do you guys think about the low volume problem and the
price?



Thanks in advance,
Larry

wedgehead3 wrote:
Guys,


First off, I'm a pinball guy and I need some expert juke advice. I'm
going to go look at this juke on Saturday. I have only seen email pics
so far and the box looks nice. The seller says it works with the
exception of the volume is so low it can barely be heard. Is this
something serious or maybe just a bad capacitor? They are asking $600
and that includes the wall box. That seems a little high to
me......What do you guys think about the low volume problem and the
price?



Thanks in advance,
Larry

The 3000 series is a solid machine, quite reliable if oiled once in a
while...I do recommend oiling all moving metal parts and rollers.

The amp problem sounds typical for this vintage, simply replace the
electrolytic caps on the PCB and all should be fine. Do replace the
power cord at the same time as it is likely to be getting brittle.

I have original manuals for sale or they are downloadable from a few
sites - you can hunt those down easily enough.

I do have some NOS parts for machines of this vintage if you need anything.

The price sounds reasonable considering it includes a wallbox and stepper!

John :-#)#
--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

On Oct 14, 8:44*pm, wedgehead3 wrote:
Guys,

First off, I'm a pinball guy and I need some expert juke advice. I'm
going to go look at this juke on Saturday. I have only seen email pics
so far and the box looks nice. The seller says it works with the
exception of the volume is so low it can barely be heard. Is this
something serious or maybe just a bad capacitor? They are asking $600
and that includes the wall box. That seems a little high to
me......What do you guys think about the low volume problem *and the
price?

Thanks in advance,
Larry

Larry, these machines used a ceramic pickup which will likely have
failed by now, ask if it has been replaced, Better yet -check if it
has an "F" shaped stylus, it is sort of flag shaped and the cartridge
has a plug-in base with wires soldered onto the plug instead of the
slip-on pin connectors that any replacement will have.

Since that amp is designed for a ceramic pickup, you can easily test
whether the low volume is amp or pickup related. Bring an MP3 player,
Cd player or even just a radio tuner with a cord that has male RCA
plugs. Plug them into where the pickup goes in, make a selection and
once the needle is on the record you should be able to instead
whatever you plugged into that amp. How is the sound quality then?
Wurlitzer made some bumbling mech designs but surprisingly had no
trouble in adopting printed circuits and their transistor amps of that
vintage are -very- reliable.

The biggest problem with the carousel mach (models 1700-3300) was the
enormous strain on the motor that pulls down the record lift arms.
they got away with this stupid situation when using the original DC
motor, but the later mechs, such as yours had a more delicate AC motor
with smaller gears. If those break or jam, you have a problem. I
carefully stretch the large springs under the deck to weaken them and
this relieves much of the stress on that motor.

The 100selection machines were much simpler than the 200's and less
goes wrong in the selection system. You should try to make every "A"
and "B" selection by IIRC A!-B2 this is to see if any of the plunger
that hit the pins in the selector wheel (below mech) get stuck between
pins.

Also check fuses for proper values. I have seen cases where the large
driver solenoid (in the selector wheel) was drawing too much current
due to shorted turns and someone just put in a larger fuse. Changing
that solenoid is no big deal, it's pretty standard.

The steppers of that era are notorious for having stiff stepper wheels
--particularly those with white nylon stepper gears- the plastic would
dry and shrink against the metal axle and crack. If possible make
several selections especially in the lower number/letters At those
points the stepper wheel springs are not wound up tight and thus have
less inertia to set them back to home position. So if there is
binding, the selection after say, an A-1 will wrong if the wheels
don't re-set properly.

Rob

On Oct 14, 10:59*pm, John Robertson wrote:
wedgehead3 wrote:
Guys,

First off, I'm a pinball guy and I need some expert juke advice. I'm
going to go look at this juke on Saturday. I have only seen email pics
so far and the box looks nice. The seller says it works with the
exception of the volume is so low it can barely be heard. Is this
something serious or maybe just a bad capacitor? They are asking $600
and that includes the wall box. That seems a little high to
me......What do you guys think about the low volume problem *and the
price?

Thanks in advance,
Larry

The 3000 series is a solid machine, quite reliable if oiled once in a
while...I do recommend oiling all moving metal parts and rollers.

The amp problem sounds typical for this vintage, simply replace the
electrolytic caps on the PCB and all should be fine. Do replace the
power cord at the same time as it is likely to be getting brittle.

I have original manuals for sale or they are downloadable from a few
sites - you can hunt those down easily enough.

I do have some NOS parts for machines of this vintage if you need anything.

The price sounds reasonable considering it includes a wallbox and stepper!

John :-#)#
--
* * (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
* John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
* Call(604)872-5757or Fax872-2010(Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
* * * * * * * * * * *www.flippers.com
* * * *"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."


John and Rob,

Thanks so much for the info. I ended up buying the box and will pick
it up on Tuesday evening (10/19) providing it isn't raining. I'm sure
I'll be back here asking you experts some more questions as I proceed
in trying to get this low volume issue resolved. It also sounds like
the speed comes and goes as it's playing a record. Any tips on that
issue?

I understand when transporting a juke that some part of the mech needs
to be locked down. Is this true and does this box (Wurlitzer 3010)
have such a locking device or do I have to remove anything from the
box before transporting?

Thanks in advance....
Larry

On Oct 17, 4:26*pm, wedgehead3 wrote:
On Oct 14, 10:59*pm, John Robertson wrote:



wedgehead3 wrote:
Guys,

First off, I'm a pinball guy and I need some expert juke advice. I'm
going to go look at this juke on Saturday. I have only seen email pics
so far and the box looks nice. The seller says it works with the
exception of the volume is so low it can barely be heard. Is this
something serious or maybe just a bad capacitor? They are asking $600
and that includes the wall box. That seems a little high to
me......What do you guys think about the low volume problem *and the
price?

Thanks in advance,
Larry

The 3000 series is a solid machine, quite reliable if oiled once in a
while...I do recommend oiling all moving metal parts and rollers.

The amp problem sounds typical for this vintage, simply replace the
electrolytic caps on the PCB and all should be fine. Do replace the
power cord at the same time as it is likely to be getting brittle.

I have original manuals for sale or they are downloadable from a few
sites - you can hunt those down easily enough.

I do have some NOS parts for machines of this vintage if you need anything.

The price sounds reasonable considering it includes a wallbox and stepper!

John :-#)#
--
* * (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
* John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
* Call(604)872-5757or Fax872-2010(Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
* * * * * * * * * * *www.flippers.com
* * * *"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

John and Rob,

Thanks so much for the info. I ended up buying the box and will pick
it up on Tuesday evening (10/19) providing it isn't raining. I'm sure
I'll be back here asking you experts some more questions as I proceed
in trying to get this low volume issue resolved. It also sounds like
the speed comes and goes as it's playing a record. Any tips on that
issue?

I understand when transporting a juke that some part of the mech needs
to be locked down. Is this true and does this box (Wurlitzer 3010)
have such a locking device or do I have to remove anything from the
box before transporting?

Thanks in advance....
Larry

Larry, there are four tie-down bolts at each corner of the mach top
plate. they are captive and stick up from below. take the back off the
machine and look at each side where the mech sits on springs.

Next, check that the amp is secured with a snap-in bolt just above it,
make sure that the coin mech and any other parts such as the stepper
(on floor) are secured with their brackets.

If the machine is going to lie down on it's back for the trip, it is
essential to remove the records and title holders


Make -sure- the lid glass is locked.

You might want to put a piece of tape across the fluorescent lamps to
secure them.

As for speed irregularity, its often difficult to eliminate ant trace
of wow on the old Wurlitzers, These models used a combination of
belts and rubber puck to drive the turntable. the belts often stretch
and develop a knuckle if left standing for a long time and the puck's
rubber tire dries out. The belt is available through one of the
dealers in Always Jukin and the puck can be rebuilt w/new rubber if
cleaning doesn't fix it. Again, these models were rarely completely
wow free.

Good luck.

On Oct 18, 5:40*am, Rob in NYC wrote:
On Oct 17, 4:26*pm, wedgehead3 wrote:





On Oct 14, 10:59*pm, John Robertson wrote:

wedgehead3 wrote:
Guys,

First off, I'm a pinball guy and I need some expert juke advice. I'm
going to go look at this juke on Saturday. I have only seen email pics
so far and the box looks nice. The seller says it works with the
exception of the volume is so low it can barely be heard. Is this
something serious or maybe just a bad capacitor? They are asking $600
and that includes the wall box. That seems a little high to
me......What do you guys think about the low volume problem *and the
price?

Thanks in advance,
Larry

The 3000 series is a solid machine, quite reliable if oiled once in a
while...I do recommend oiling all moving metal parts and rollers.

The amp problem sounds typical for this vintage, simply replace the
electrolytic caps on the PCB and all should be fine. Do replace the
power cord at the same time as it is likely to be getting brittle.

I have original manuals for sale or they are downloadable from a few
sites - you can hunt those down easily enough.

I do have some NOS parts for machines of this vintage if you need anything.

The price sounds reasonable considering it includes a wallbox and stepper!

John :-#)#
--
* * (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
* John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
* Call(604)872-5757or Fax872-2010(Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
* * * * * * * * * * *www.flippers.com
* * * *"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

John and Rob,

Thanks so much for the info. I ended up buying the box and will pick
it up on Tuesday evening (10/19) providing it isn't raining. I'm sure
I'll be back here asking you experts some more questions as I proceed
in trying to get this low volume issue resolved. It also sounds like
the speed comes and goes as it's playing a record. Any tips on that
issue?

I understand when transporting a juke that some part of the mech needs
to be locked down. Is this true and does this box (Wurlitzer 3010)
have such a locking device or do I have to remove anything from the
box before transporting?

Thanks in advance....
Larry

Larry, there are four tie-down bolts at each corner of the mach top
plate. they are captive and stick up from below. take the back off the
machine and look at each side where the mech sits on springs.

Next, check that the amp is secured with a snap-in bolt just above it,
make sure that the coin mech and any other parts such as the stepper
(on floor) are secured with their brackets.

If the machine is going to lie down on it's back for the trip, it is
essential to remove the records and title holders

Make -sure- the lid glass is locked.

You might want to put a piece of tape across the fluorescent lamps to
secure them.

As for speed irregularity, its often difficult to eliminate ant trace
of wow on the old Wurlitzers, *These models used a combination of
belts and rubber puck to drive the turntable. the belts often stretch
and develop a knuckle if left standing for a long time and the puck's
rubber tire dries out. The belt is available through one of the
dealers in Always Jukin and the puck can be rebuilt w/new rubber if
cleaning doesn't fix it. *Again, these models were rarely completely
wow free.

Good luck.


Rob,

Thanks for your advice. It was very helpful. We got the juke moved and
it still works, so I guess we did something right........In an earlier
post I mentioned that this box has very low volume and it was
mentioned that I probably need to install a cap kit in the amp. I now
have a new cap kit (Victory Glass) and I'm wondering if this is a job
I can do myself. The kit came with a schematic. I haven't as yet
removed the amp from the cabinet. My question to you or the group is
this: Are there identifying marks on the amp that will help guide me
thru the installation of each component? I am comfortable with
soldering as I am an avid pinball collector/restorer, but I have no
experience with jukes, much less rebuilding an amp. Is this a
relatively easy job? I know it will take time, but is it something for
a jukebox novice to tackle?

Thanks in advance,
Larry

wedgehead3 wrote:
On Oct 18, 5:40 am, Rob in NYC wrote:
On Oct 17, 4:26 pm, wedgehead3 wrote:





On Oct 14, 10:59 pm, John Robertson wrote:
wedgehead3 wrote:
Guys,
First off, I'm a pinball guy and I need some expert juke advice. I'm
going to go look at this juke on Saturday. I have only seen email pics
so far and the box looks nice. The seller says it works with the
exception of the volume is so low it can barely be heard. Is this
something serious or maybe just a bad capacitor? They are asking $600
and that includes the wall box. That seems a little high to
me......What do you guys think about the low volume problem and the
price?
Thanks in advance,
Larry
The 3000 series is a solid machine, quite reliable if oiled once in a
while...I do recommend oiling all moving metal parts and rollers.
The amp problem sounds typical for this vintage, simply replace the
electrolytic caps on the PCB and all should be fine. Do replace the
power cord at the same time as it is likely to be getting brittle.
I have original manuals for sale or they are downloadable from a few
sites - you can hunt those down easily enough.
I do have some NOS parts for machines of this vintage if you need anything.
The price sounds reasonable considering it includes a wallbox and stepper!
John :-#)#
--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
Call(604)872-5757or Fax872-2010(Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
John and Rob,
Thanks so much for the info. I ended up buying the box and will pick
it up on Tuesday evening (10/19) providing it isn't raining. I'm sure
I'll be back here asking you experts some more questions as I proceed
in trying to get this low volume issue resolved. It also sounds like
the speed comes and goes as it's playing a record. Any tips on that
issue?
I understand when transporting a juke that some part of the mech needs
to be locked down. Is this true and does this box (Wurlitzer 3010)
have such a locking device or do I have to remove anything from the
box before transporting?
Thanks in advance....
Larry
Larry, there are four tie-down bolts at each corner of the mach top
plate. they are captive and stick up from below. take the back off the
machine and look at each side where the mech sits on springs.

Next, check that the amp is secured with a snap-in bolt just above it,
make sure that the coin mech and any other parts such as the stepper
(on floor) are secured with their brackets.

If the machine is going to lie down on it's back for the trip, it is
essential to remove the records and title holders

Make -sure- the lid glass is locked.

You might want to put a piece of tape across the fluorescent lamps to
secure them.

As for speed irregularity, its often difficult to eliminate ant trace
of wow on the old Wurlitzers, These models used a combination of
belts and rubber puck to drive the turntable. the belts often stretch
and develop a knuckle if left standing for a long time and the puck's
rubber tire dries out. The belt is available through one of the
dealers in Always Jukin and the puck can be rebuilt w/new rubber if
cleaning doesn't fix it. Again, these models were rarely completely
wow free.

Good luck.


Rob,

Thanks for your advice. It was very helpful. We got the juke moved and
it still works, so I guess we did something right........In an earlier
post I mentioned that this box has very low volume and it was
mentioned that I probably need to install a cap kit in the amp. I now
have a new cap kit (Victory Glass) and I'm wondering if this is a job
I can do myself. The kit came with a schematic. I haven't as yet
removed the amp from the cabinet. My question to you or the group is
this: Are there identifying marks on the amp that will help guide me
thru the installation of each component? I am comfortable with
soldering as I am an avid pinball collector/restorer, but I have no
experience with jukes, much less rebuilding an amp. Is this a
relatively easy job? I know it will take time, but is it something for
a jukebox novice to tackle?

Thanks in advance,
Larry

Depending on the level of instructions that are included with the cap
kit you may or may not have any problems...certainly jukebox amps that
use circuit boards are quite easy to recap. There are others (Seeburg
222) that are rather nasty and time consuming due to the parts mounted
on lug boards that are mounted scrunched into the amp and must be
extracted with great care.

I suspect things will go pretty smoothly for your 3010 recap though!

John :-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

On Oct 31, 9:30*pm, John Robertson wrote:
wedgehead3 wrote:
On Oct 18, 5:40 am, Rob in NYC wrote:
On Oct 17, 4:26 pm, wedgehead3 wrote:

On Oct 14, 10:59 pm, John Robertson wrote:
wedgehead3 wrote:
Guys,
First off, I'm a pinball guy and I need some expert juke advice. I'm
going to go look at this juke on Saturday. I have only seen email pics
so far and the box looks nice. The seller says it works with the
exception of the volume is so low it can barely be heard. Is this
something serious or maybe just a bad capacitor? They are asking $600
and that includes the wall box. That seems a little high to
me......What do you guys think about the low volume problem *and the
price?
Thanks in advance,
Larry
The 3000 series is a solid machine, quite reliable if oiled once in a
while...I do recommend oiling all moving metal parts and rollers.
The amp problem sounds typical for this vintage, simply replace the
electrolytic caps on the PCB and all should be fine. Do replace the
power cord at the same time as it is likely to be getting brittle.
I have original manuals for sale or they are downloadable from a few
sites - you can hunt those down easily enough.
I do have some NOS parts for machines of this vintage if you need anything.
The price sounds reasonable considering it includes a wallbox and stepper!
John :-#)#
--
* * (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
* John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
* Call(604)872-5757or Fax872-2010(Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
* * * * * * * * * * *www.flippers.com
* * * *"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
John and Rob,
Thanks so much for the info. I ended up buying the box and will pick
it up on Tuesday evening (10/19) providing it isn't raining. I'm sure
I'll be back here asking you experts some more questions as I proceed
in trying to get this low volume issue resolved. It also sounds like
the speed comes and goes as it's playing a record. Any tips on that
issue?
I understand when transporting a juke that some part of the mech needs
to be locked down. Is this true and does this box (Wurlitzer 3010)
have such a locking device or do I have to remove anything from the
box before transporting?
Thanks in advance....
Larry
Larry, there are four tie-down bolts at each corner of the mach top
plate. they are captive and stick up from below. take the back off the
machine and look at each side where the mech sits on springs.

Next, check that the amp is secured with a snap-in bolt just above it,
make sure that the coin mech and any other parts such as the stepper
(on floor) are secured with their brackets.

If the machine is going to lie down on it's back for the trip, it is
essential to remove the records and title holders

Make -sure- the lid glass is locked.

You might want to put a piece of tape across the fluorescent lamps to
secure them.

As for speed irregularity, its often difficult to eliminate ant trace
of wow on the old Wurlitzers, *These models used a combination of
belts and rubber puck to drive the turntable. the belts often stretch
and develop a knuckle if left standing for a long time and the puck's
rubber tire dries out. The belt is available through one of the
dealers in Always Jukin and the puck can be rebuilt w/new rubber if
cleaning doesn't fix it. *Again, these models were rarely completely
wow free.

Good luck.

Rob,

Thanks for your advice. It was very helpful. We got the juke moved and
it still works, so I guess we did something right........In an earlier
post I mentioned that this box has very low volume and it was
mentioned that I probably need to install a cap kit in the amp. I now
have a new cap kit (Victory Glass) and I'm wondering if this is a job
I can do myself. The kit came with a schematic. I haven't as yet
removed the amp from the cabinet. My question to you or the group is
this: Are there identifying marks on the amp that will help guide me
thru the installation of each component? I am comfortable with
soldering as I am an avid pinball collector/restorer, but I have no
experience with jukes, much less rebuilding an amp. Is this a
relatively easy job? I know it will take time, but is it something for
a jukebox novice to tackle?

Thanks in advance,
Larry

Depending on the level of instructions that are included with the cap
kit you may or may not have any problems...certainly jukebox amps that
use circuit boards are quite easy to recap. There are others (Seeburg
222) that are rather nasty and time consuming due to the parts mounted
on lug boards that are mounted scrunched into the amp and must be
extracted with great care.

I suspect things will go pretty smoothly for your 3010 recap though!

John :-#)#

--
* * (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
* John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
* Call(604)872-5757or Fax872-2010(Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
* * * * * * * * * * *www.flippers.com
* * * *"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."


Thanks, John. I hope you're right about this re-cap job going pretty
smoothly. Like I said, I'm mostly an EM pinball guy and have never
attempted to rebuild ANY juke amp. If the old amp components are well
marked, I'll feel confidant. But if they aren't, that's another story.
Thanks again, I appreciate your encouragement.

Larry