Romania Social Welfare.

Philatelic cancel, and a dodgy opt Peter.

From what I can gather, this block overprint went on the Fiscals on 10th
March 1918
so how can it be on a stamp cancelled 29th December 1917?
The serifs on the R and the M of "armee" are quite different.
Is the opt under or ontop the cancellation strike?

I presume the funds gathered from genuine stamps went to the Germans under
occupation?

I'll place it as a probable weed, with yours and Jay's comments.
Thanks
rodney


"Peter Baumann"
No fiscals Rodney, they were used like the "War Tax" stamps. The higher
values, were indeed used as fiscals.
The second one - the cancel is correct. The stamp were issued in 1917,
but it is a philatelic cancel.

Peter

--
No Gates - no Bill!

"Peter Baumann"
Rodney, the two listed, were used as compulsory tax stamps -

Compulsory Tax Stamps- Perfinned Dresdner Bank Bucharest
http://cjoint.com/data/iruQacqZ77.htm

"rodney" pookiethai@NOSPAM iprimus.com.au wrote in message
...

Philatelic cancel, and a dodgy opt Peter.

From what I can gather, this block overprint went on the Fiscals on 10th
March 1918
so how can it be on a stamp cancelled 29th December 1917?
The serifs on the R and the M of "armee" are quite different.
Is the opt under or ontop the cancellation strike?

I presume the funds gathered from genuine stamps went to the Germans under
occupation?

I'll place it as a probable weed, with yours and Jay's comments.

I'm not a specialist of these stamps but a suppose that a bit of Romania's
history could help.

"Bucharest was captured on December 6 (1916 - VM) by Falkenhayn's cavalry."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romania...n_(World_War_I)

"Bucharest was eventually liberated after the Central Powers' surrender in
1918."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bucharest

--
Victor Manta

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Some of the fiscals were issued in 1917, but not this one.

Jay Carrigan see web site for email address
www.jaypex.com


In article ,
says...

rodney schrieb:
Thanks Jay, Chris.
makes the complete set vastly different.

Whilst on the subject of Romania,
I have this fiscal which I gues comes under "German Occupation"
"Gultig 9 Armee"
http://cjoint.com/data/irqGc2tG6z.htm

I have seen that one listed, but not this one, maybe a forgery?
Any more information on these? are they indeed fiscals?

http://cjoint.com/data/irqIhzfZgf.htm

the "r" and the "m" seem to diifer in this opt.

Thanks very much for all the information.

rodney




wrote in message
...
On 17 Aug, 14:58, (Jay T. Carrigan) wrote:
http://www.jaypex.com/Romania/AS.jpg

Perforation varieties a

A - 13 1/2
B - 11 1/2
C - 11 1/2 x 13 1/2
D - 13 1/2 x 11 1/2
K - 13 1/2 x 14

Jay Carrigan see web site for email address
www.jaypex.com

In article ,
says...



Yes 7 in complete set, with paper and perf varieties.
"rodney" pookiethai@NOSPAM iprimus.com.au wrote in message
...
I am aware only two are listed,
I was wondering how many may be in the complete set? 7?
http://cjoint.com/data/irc2ismwZp.htm
Thanks.


The 25b black also comes watermarked with wavy lines (SG T1079 of
1928) p 13 1/2. For the listed ones (10b & 25b), SG Part 3 adds:
"Shades exist. These also exist on thick carton paper and on chalk-
surfaced paper." and "In 1930 the Social welfare stamps were
withdrawn".

Chris


No fiscals Rodney, they were used like the "War Tax" stamps. The higher
values, were indeed used as fiscals.
The second one - the cancel is correct. The stamp were issued in 1917,
but it is a philatelic cancel.

Peter

--
No Gates - no Bill!

Your information differs a bit from the footnotes on the
catalog page I scanned. It gives:

laid paper - 10b and 25b
carton paper - 10b, 25b, 50b, 2L and 50L
pelure paper - 25b
paper with a straight line watermark - 10b and 25b

All these only with perf. D (13 1/2 x 11 1/2).

No mention of chalky paper or wavy line watermark.

Jay Carrigan see web site for email address
(www.jaypex.com


In article ,
says...

On 17 Aug, 14:58, (Jay T. Carrigan) wrote:
http://www.jaypex.com/Romania/AS.jpg

Perforation varieties a

A - 13 1/2
B - 11 1/2
C - 11 1/2 x 13 1/2
D - 13 1/2 x 11 1/2
K - 13 1/2 x 14

=A0 =A0 =A0Jay Carrigan =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0see web site for email address
=A0 =A0 =A0www.jaypex.com

In article ,
says...



Yes 7 in complete set, with paper and perf varieties.

"rodney" pookiethai@NOSPAM iprimus.com.au wrote in message
...
I am aware only two are listed,
I was wondering how many may be in the complete set? =A0 7?
http://cjoint.com/data/irc2ismwZp.htm

Thanks.



The 25b black also comes watermarked with wavy lines (SG T1079 of
1928) p 13 1/2. For the listed ones (10b & 25b), SG Part 3 adds:
"Shades exist. These also exist on thick carton paper and on chalk-
surfaced paper." and "In 1930 the Social welfare stamps were
withdrawn".

Chris

rodney schrieb:
Philatelic cancel, and a dodgy opt Peter.

From what I can gather, this block overprint went on the Fiscals on 10th
March 1918
so how can it be on a stamp cancelled 29th December 1917?
The serifs on the R and the M of "armee" are quite different.
Is the opt under or ontop the cancellation strike?

I presume the funds gathered from genuine stamps went to the Germans under
occupation?

I'll place it as a probable weed, with yours and Jay's comments.
Thanks
rodney


"Peter Baumann"
No fiscals Rodney, they were used like the "War Tax" stamps. The higher
values, were indeed used as fiscals.
The second one - the cancel is correct. The stamp were issued in 1917,
but it is a philatelic cancel.

Peter

--
No Gates - no Bill!


No Sir, that is not correct - there were 3 stamps, with that design
overprinted. The 10B brown and the 10B grey-violet issued on august 10
1917 and a 5B black on oct 01 1918, with overprint in black and carmine.
From that, yours could be genuine.


Peter

--
No Gates - no Bill!

OK Thankyou Peter,
What was it, that indicated the cancellation was philatelic?
rodney


"Peter Baumann"
No Sir, that is not correct - there were 3 stamps, with that design
overprinted. The 10B brown and the 10B grey-violet issued on august 10
1917 and a 5B black on oct 01 1918, with overprint in black and carmine.
From that, yours could be genuine.


Peter

--
No Gates - no Bill!

That contradicts the information in my Romanian catalog
http://www.jaypex.com/Romania/G9A.jpg.

What is your source?

Jay Carrigan see web site for email address
www.jaypex.com


In article ,
says...

rodney schrieb:
Philatelic cancel, and a dodgy opt Peter.

From what I can gather, this block overprint went on the Fiscals on 10th
March 1918
so how can it be on a stamp cancelled 29th December 1917?
The serifs on the R and the M of "armee" are quite different.
Is the opt under or ontop the cancellation strike?

I presume the funds gathered from genuine stamps went to the Germans under
occupation?

I'll place it as a probable weed, with yours and Jay's comments.
Thanks
rodney


"Peter Baumann"
No fiscals Rodney, they were used like the "War Tax" stamps. The higher
values, were indeed used as fiscals.
The second one - the cancel is correct. The stamp were issued in 1917,
but it is a philatelic cancel.

Peter

--
No Gates - no Bill!


No Sir, that is not correct - there were 3 stamps, with that design
overprinted. The 10B brown and the 10B grey-violet issued on august 10
1917 and a 5B black on oct 01 1918, with overprint in black and carmine.
From that, yours could be genuine.


Peter

--
No Gates - no Bill!

Jay T. Carrigan schrieb:
That contradicts the information in my Romanian catalog
http://www.jaypex.com/Romania/G9A.jpg.

What is your source?

Jay Carrigan see web site for email address
www.jaypex.com


In article ,


No Sir, that is not correct - there were 3 stamps, with that design
overprinted. The 10B brown and the 10B grey-violet issued on august 10
1917 and a 5B black on oct 01 1918, with overprint in black and carmine.
From that, yours could be genuine.

Peter

--
No Gates - no Bill!


Funny Jay! I got my information from the German "Michel" specialized
Germany katalogue. Does your Romanian catalogue mention the 5B black?




Peter
--
No Gates - no Bill!

"Peter Baumann" wrote in message
...
Jay T. Carrigan schrieb:
That contradicts the information in my Romanian catalog
http://www.jaypex.com/Romania/G9A.jpg.

What is your source?

Jay Carrigan see web site for email address
www.jaypex.com


In article ,


No Sir, that is not correct - there were 3 stamps, with that design
overprinted. The 10B brown and the 10B grey-violet issued on august 10
1917 and a 5B black on oct 01 1918, with overprint in black and carmine.
From that, yours could be genuine.


Funny Jay! I got my information from the German "Michel" specialized
Germany katalogue. Does your Romanian catalogue mention the 5B black?


In my Lista de preturi 2001 (Official price list of the Romanian Post) I
couldn't find a 5 Bani black, overprinted "Gültig 9. Armee". Haven't looked
for the others.The price list and the scan from Jay overlap, just the prices
are different.

I wonder if we speak about the same stamps. Gerhard, could you please post a
scan from your catalogue?

--
Victor Manta

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Romania by Stamps: http://marci-postale.com/
Philatelic Webmasters Organization: http://pwmo.org/
Art on Stamps: http://artonstamps.org/
Communism on Stamps: http://reds-on.postalstamps.biz/
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----------------------------------------------------------------------------