College rule?

"PGBarto" wrote in message
...
http://www.tappi.org/paperu/all_abou...paperClips.htm

Scroll down: yes trees can be planted and harvested

gary

Nice work Gary. I thought it was only done in Europe. Okay folks, you can
start buying wooden pens without guilt
--
Best regards,
Free Citizen
Fountain Pen Network
A pen site run by the Pen Community
http://pagesperso.laposte.net/fpnet

David wrote:
On 2004-10-03 07:03:49 -0700, (PGBarto) said:

Scroll down: yes trees can be planted and harvested



Yes they can. But that isn't what's generally done now, and that was my
point. If all non-farm logging was eliminated right now, there wouldn't
be much left on the market. And if we just re-define "farm" to mean
"basically anywhere that trees are being cut and new ones planted", we
won't be any better off. A farm is a farm.
"We're eliminating industry demands for cutting down more and more
forest land by establishing small, intensive tree farms that will fill
the demand instead" is not on the website.

David

I think you are wrong about that as far as U.S. is concerned. I believe
most paper products are made from farmed trees. I once had a friend who
managed farmed forests for International Paper, and he said that nearly
all the IP pulp came from farms. The trees are planted in rows, and
have a consistent size, making them more economical to harvest and
process than the random sizes and growth patterns of forestlands. Most
cutting in old growth forests is for lumber and manufactured goods such
as furniture.

"Reuben S. Pitts III" wrote in message
...
Bluesea wrote:
"JimL" wrote in message
om...

I never understood this concept of "saving trees." Like any farm
crop, harvest them, plant more.

Therein lies the problem: Not everyone who harvests trees are planting
more
to replace those they've cut down. We can stand a certain amount of
non-replenishment, but ecologists say not to the extent that has been
going
on. Not only is the land denuded allowing erosion, but also the quality
of
air is affected because the leaves which acted as natural air filters
are
gone. IIRC, climate is affected also, but I don't remember how that
worked.

Actually, the pulp wood (used to make paper) producers do plant new
trees. They are typically pine, grown on large farms, and regrow
rapidly. I'm no expert on the relative "greenness" of recycling paper
vs. making new paper from trees, but the harvesting and regrowth of
trees is not the issue. The clear cutting that is not replanted is
usually either land clearing (rain forest countries) or hard woods for
lumber and materials used in fabrication.

No, clear cutting happens in the U.S., too. My cousin recently sold some
land with timber in ID and had to be diligent about finding a good buyer
because too often, a bad logger will come in, clear cut the land, and then
it's sold to someone else who doesn't replant. It was relatively easy for
her since her husband has connections with a lumber mill. He asked about
prospective buyers and was warned away from those with reputations of raping
the land in that manner. Last month, she and her sister went to check on
what the new owner had done to the property and she was pleased that it was
logged and not clear cut just as the buyer had promised.


--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.

Bluesea wrote:

"Reuben S. Pitts III" wrote in message
...
Bluesea wrote:
"JimL" wrote in message
om...

I never understood this concept of "saving trees." Like any farm
crop, harvest them, plant more.

Therein lies the problem: Not everyone who harvests trees are planting
more
to replace those they've cut down. We can stand a certain amount of
non-replenishment, but ecologists say not to the extent that has been
going
on. Not only is the land denuded allowing erosion, but also the quality
of
air is affected because the leaves which acted as natural air filters
are
gone. IIRC, climate is affected also, but I don't remember how that
worked.

Actually, the pulp wood (used to make paper) producers do plant new
trees. They are typically pine, grown on large farms, and regrow
rapidly. I'm no expert on the relative "greenness" of recycling paper
vs. making new paper from trees, but the harvesting and regrowth of
trees is not the issue. The clear cutting that is not replanted is
usually either land clearing (rain forest countries) or hard woods for
lumber and materials used in fabrication.

No, clear cutting happens in the U.S., too. My cousin recently sold some
land with timber in ID and had to be diligent about finding a good buyer
because too often, a bad logger will come in, clear cut the land, and then
it's sold to someone else who doesn't replant.

Sold for what use?

Bluesea wrote:

No, clear cutting happens in the U.S., too. My cousin recently sold some
land with timber in ID and had to be diligent about finding a good buyer
because too often, a bad logger will come in, clear cut the land, and then
it's sold to someone else who doesn't replant. It was relatively easy for
her since her husband has connections with a lumber mill. He asked about
prospective buyers and was warned away from those with reputations of raping
the land in that manner. Last month, she and her sister went to check on
what the new owner had done to the property and she was pleased that it was
logged and not clear cut just as the buyer had promised.

I agree that clear cutting occurs in the U. S. at an alarming rate. I
think most of it is for uses other than paper products. I see clear
cutting here in Virginia all the time. In some instances it is good
because it allows seedlings that do not tolerate shade get a good start.
In other instances it is bad because the land is prone to erosion,
etc. My friend that was in the business made a good point to me that
the best way to restart an overgrown forest was a fire, which is
essentially clear cutting. Something about letting the sun get to the
ground and start certain kinds of growth. It's been a long time and I
don't remember the details.

snipped all

Of course we wouldn't have to use trees for paper if they (insert your
favorite legislature) would just get off their holier than thou
backsides and allow the cultivation of industrial hemp.

But I'm not going to hold my breath (no pun intended!)

Regards,

DAve

In article ,
Free Citizen wrote:

But KCat, in Sweden, they have very successfully harvested trees for
furniture and paper making. I don't know what the turn around planting time
is but I see that the harvesting is mechanised.

In the south of Sweden spruce can be cut down when it's
60-70 years old. More in the middle and north (90+), a
little less in the far south.

If it's a forest and supposed to remain a forest/fir or
spruce plantation, you basically have to replant as much
as you've cut down.

I wonder if it is all for IKEA.

Hardly. I think paper and pulp is a much larger than wood
and of wood for construction I'm sure houses is a larger
proportion than furniture. Besides, lots of IKEA's
products aren't made in Sweden.

Paper is very cheap in Sweden compared with many other
places.
--
Urban Fredriksson
Favourite pens and inks: http://www.canit.se/%7Egriffon/writing/

Rather than having to worry about wide rule or narrow, what I've been doing
this semester is just buying lots of pads of quadrille paper (with the
smallest
quad boxes, not larger ones.) Not only do they give me the option of using
whatever size of line I want, so that I can write notes to myself with large
print
headings and then my regular, small cursive, but I've also started
handwriting
outlines to my lectures, leaving a number of quad lines empty beneath each
heading or subheading, and passing these out to my class before I talk. The
extra spacing makes it possible for them to write notes in an organized way
(at least, in semi-outline form), and I noticed Saturday that they really DO
write more notes in response to my handwritten outlines instead of the typed
ones (which just look like regular handouts -- apparently, the handwritten
ones look a bit more personal - and incomplete!)
The big advantage, besides the options in line spacing, though: quadrille
lines
don't show up on photocopied pages, so that my students probably think I
have some of the neatest, STRAIGHTEST handwriting they've seen.

Sally

"JimL" wrote in message
om...
Just an idle muse question.

The packages of paper cut and punched for three-ring notebook binders
for school children (and old children like me, gathering cheap scratch
paper in the back to school sales). -- The pages are lined, and one
of the two sizes of lines is labelled as "college ruled." Why is
that? Is ther an assumption that, by the time one hiots college, that
our handwriting will become smaller?

I have a shelf of ring binders, with my class notes, one binder per
semester. I don't know why I even took notes, because I ddon't gho
back to them. And I don't know why I still save them all 30 years
later! But it is interesting to go bacck to them occasionally an
notice how my handwriting mutated or evolved over the years. (as well
as my note taking styles). Sometimes larger, sometimes smaller. But
I can't really say that my handwriting got progressively smaller the
farther along I progressed in classes.

Do the manufacturers just assume that college students write smaller
than younger ones? Or that we need more lines per page?

Oh well, nothing significant. Talk amongst yourselves.

On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 04:37:03 GMT, David wrote:

Farm crops are grown on a circumscribed piece of land, and the farmer
plants the crop, waits until it matures, harvests it, and starts over.
If trees were farmed this way (small plots of dedicated land, planting
your own trees, waiting till the crop is mature, cutting it all down,
and starting again on the same small piece of land) then your argument
would make more sense to me. Farmers don't cut things they didn't plant
themselves.

This will come as a surprise to those that are in the Christmas tree
business. And the trees that are used for paper are definitely more
like the Christmas tree market than mid-growth housing and furniture
grade trees. Some of it is harvested at 7 years and I'm sure those
that husband these kind of forests have enough land to rotate over a
7-10 year plan for this kind of lumber.

Of course, even that is a bit off mark in that there is relatively
little housing grade lumber used in housing, since that's a hangover
from the days of real lumber used in many parts of the house. Now once
you get past the 2" by 3" and 2" by 4" pieces, its mostly composite.
And the 2 by 3 and 2 by 4 pieces aren't 2 by 3 or 2 by 4...

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Curtis L. Russell wrote in message . ..
On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 04:37:03 GMT, David wrote:

Farm crops are grown on a circumscribed piece of land, and the farmer
plants the crop, waits until it matures, harvests it, and starts over.
If trees were farmed this way (small plots of dedicated land, planting
your own trees, waiting till the crop is mature, cutting it all down,
and starting again on the same small piece of land) then your argument
would make more sense to me. Farmers don't cut things they didn't plant
themselves.

This will come as a surprise to those that are in the Christmas tree
business. And the trees that are used for paper are definitely more
like the Christmas tree market than mid-growth housing and furniture
grade trees. Some of it is harvested at 7 years and I'm sure those
that husband these kind of forests have enough land to rotate over a
7-10 year plan for this kind of lumber.

----------SNIP---------


Now there's a double solution! Transform those "Christmas" tree
farms into sources for paper! Talk about wasting natures resources,
those "Christmas" trees are chopped down and allowed to dies in three
weeks, then get tossed out. I always hated seeing all those pagan
Druid symbols (evergreen trees) being mistakenly used as a Christian
symbol. I have always refused to have one in my home (except in the
form of fine paper or wooden pencils).

(How's that for a screeching left turn off topic, and then back on in
the last line?)