Fake Chinese Silver Lunar Ox Story

Recently while busy at work, Mr. Tian suddenly received a phone call
from a stranger, who wanted to sell him a type of commemorative album
that contained commemorative coins of the Chinese Zodiac. The salesman
indicated their high collection value and offered to provide “drop-in
service”.

Upon seeing this album, Mr. Tian was beside himself and inspected it
carefully. The album was packaged in a fancy box. Inside there were 5
silver coin bars commemorating the Year of the Ox, each were beset
with a commemorative seal. Every coin and seal were marked as weighing
30 g and a 99.9% silver content. Mr. Tian also noticed that the box
contained an inspection sampling document approved by the Province of
Guangdong, though this document indicated only the original would be
covered.

“The salesman showed me the ticket price for the album which was
marked at 5800 Yuan per set.” Finally after some negotiation, the
salesman agreed to sell the set at a discounted price of 2000 Yuan.

To ensure peace of mind, Mr. Tian brought the album he purchased to
the inspection center at the City of Tangshan’s Quality Inspection
Bureau of Gold, Jade and Other Precious Products in order to verify
the authenticity of this set of coins. He was shocked by the results.
The coins and seals that are individually marked to contain 99.9%
silver in fact only contained a little over 1%. The principal
materials found were copper, nickel, and zinc. Copper and zinc
comprised, on average 40 to 50%, of the materials. Not only this, what
was clearly marked as weighing 30 g, the actual weight of the
individual coins and seals was only little more than 20 g, almost 10 g
of difference.

“Since this is a commemorative product, it must have a trade name. In
addition the product must clearly indicate the amount of precious
metal contained and the product’s issuance number. Numbers cannot
overlap as each is unique and the total corresponds to the total
issued. Moreover, every issue has a corresponding certificate of
authenticity.” Ms. Xiaoling Zhou from the Quality Inspection Bureau at
Tangshan indicated. The album that Mr. Tian purchased had no issuance
number and certificate of authenticity. Without the certificate, the
inspection document provided can only cover a batch sample but cannot
serve as an authenticity certificate for the commemorative album that
Mr. Tian had purchased.

Ms. Zhou also expressed that under current government standard, the
highest silver content allowed in silver products is 99.0%. The 99.9%
silver content standard does not exist.

Accordingly, the inspection center at Tangshan’s Quality Inspection
Bureau of Gold, Jade and Other Precious Products has specifically
warned avid collectors about things to look for before purchasing
precious metal commemorative coins. Buyers need to understand among
other things the total number of issues, specific dimensions, the
amount of precious metal content, designs on both sides, the minting
facility, and the packaging of each set of coins that are issued by
specific governmental organizations. Having this knowledge will
facilitate the inspection process when making a purchase. The coin’s
actual weight must match with the standard weight. If there is a
significant difference, it is safe to assume that the coin is false.
Furthermore, it is very important to demand for the certificate of
authenticity which is the only piece of document that explicitly
states all the official coin data including the issuance number. This
certificate should be stored for safekeeping. If there’s doubt over
the authenticity of the product, it should be taken into an inspection
center for verification as soon as possible.

source: http://www.fakecoin.info
a href="http://china-mint.info/fakechinesecoinsellers.html"more fake
coin images & articles./a

On Jan 23, 3:26*pm, mango wrote:
Recently while busy at work, Mr. Tian suddenly received a phone call
from a stranger, who wanted to sell him a type of commemorative album

I'm shocked, shocked, I tell you!
How long has this been going on?

Mike M.
Michael E. Marotta
"Your winnings, M'sieur ..."

In article , Mike Marotta wrote:
On Jan 23, 3:26=A0pm, mango wrote:
Recently while busy at work, Mr. Tian suddenly received a phone call
from a stranger, who wanted to sell him a type of commemorative album

I'm shocked, shocked, I tell you!
How long has this been going on?

Mike M.
Michael E. Marotta
"Your winnings, M'sieur ..."

one every minute.

"Mike Marotta" wrote in message
...
On Jan 23, 3:26 pm, mango wrote:
Recently while busy at work, Mr. Tian suddenly received a phone call
from a stranger, who wanted to sell him a type of commemorative album

I'm shocked, shocked, I tell you!
How long has this been going on?

Mike M.
Michael E. Marotta
"Your winnings, M'sieur ..."


I predict that we will soon see counterfeit coins being sold on ebay by
sellers in China. :-) Billy

note.boy wrote:
"Mike Marotta" wrote in message
...
On Jan 23, 3:26 pm, mango wrote:
Recently while busy at work, Mr. Tian suddenly received a phone call
from a stranger, who wanted to sell him a type of commemorative album

I'm shocked, shocked, I tell you!
How long has this been going on?

Mike M.
Michael E. Marotta
"Your winnings, M'sieur ..."


I predict that we will soon see counterfeit coins being sold on ebay
by sellers in China. :-) Billy

You just said that to make me feel bad, didn't you? That won't really
happen, will it? Please tell us you're joking!

James the Worried

"note.boy" wrote in message
...

"Mike Marotta" wrote in message
...
On Jan 23, 3:26 pm, mango wrote:
Recently while busy at work, Mr. Tian suddenly received a phone
call
from a stranger, who wanted to sell him a type of commemorative
album

I'm shocked, shocked, I tell you!
How long has this been going on?

Mike M.
Michael E. Marotta
"Your winnings, M'sieur ..."

I predict that we will soon see counterfeit coins being sold on ebay
by sellers in China. :-) Billy

Dammit, another manufacturing job outsourced to China. It should be
American workers coining those counterfeits.

"Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote in message
...
note.boy wrote:
"Mike Marotta" wrote in message
...
On Jan 23, 3:26 pm, mango wrote:
Recently while busy at work, Mr. Tian suddenly received a phone call
from a stranger, who wanted to sell him a type of commemorative album

I'm shocked, shocked, I tell you!
How long has this been going on?

Mike M.
Michael E. Marotta
"Your winnings, M'sieur ..."


I predict that we will soon see counterfeit coins being sold on ebay
by sellers in China. :-) Billy

You just said that to make me feel bad, didn't you? That won't really
happen, will it? Please tell us you're joking!

James the Worried


Feel free to buy vast quantities of USA 1804 dollars from ebay sellers based
in China, you have nothing to fear.

I'm only too happy to put your mind at ease.

Don't forget to ask for combined postage if you buy more than 100. Billy

note.boy wrote:
"Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote in message
...
note.boy wrote:
"Mike Marotta" wrote in message
...
On Jan 23, 3:26 pm, mango wrote:
Recently while busy at work, Mr. Tian suddenly received a phone
call from a stranger, who wanted to sell him a type of
commemorative album

I'm shocked, shocked, I tell you!
How long has this been going on?

Mike M.
Michael E. Marotta
"Your winnings, M'sieur ..."


I predict that we will soon see counterfeit coins being sold on ebay
by sellers in China. :-) Billy

You just said that to make me feel bad, didn't you? That won't
really happen, will it? Please tell us you're joking!

James the Worried


Feel free to buy vast quantities of USA 1804 dollars from ebay
sellers based in China, you have nothing to fear.

I'm only too happy to put your mind at ease.

Don't forget to ask for combined postage if you buy more than 100. Billy

I betcha that for a slight additional charge I could get these without the
countermark:

http://tinyurl.com/cb9peh

James

Anybody here have a 1799 Draped Bust large cent? How about one in
MS-62 Red condition? The Red Book doesn't list these at grades higher
than EF-40.

A fellow collector loaned me one to look at and document online. Only
it as you likely suspected isn't a product of the U.S. Mint but is
Chinese in origin. It's one of the fakes from the Big Tree Coin
Factory in Fujian, China, the outfit that Susan Headley exposed so
well. This die transfer forgery is the exact weight (10.88g, well
within the excepted deviation from the published weight of 10.89g),
the exact diameter (also within the accepted range), and unmarked with
a COPY mark. I haven't photographed it yet, but I've showed it to
several dealers, and the only real diagnostic is that the rim is too
squared off. Dangerous. And very cool. I suspect/hope there are other
diagnostics as well, which early copper specialists and authenticity
experts at the grading services would be able to pick up.

This brings up the old dilemma with regard to forgeries, about how
documenting them and providing diagnostics gives helpful information
to collectors while at the same time making it possible for forgers to
create ever more deceptive fakes. PCGS with its Coin Grading and
Counterfeiting Detection book wrestled I'm sure with this as well, as
did editors of the Bulletin on Counterfeits/Counterfeit Coin Bulletin
when it was still being published.

--

Consumer: http://rg.ancients.info/guide
Connoisseur: http://rg.ancients.info/glom
Counterfeit: http://rg.ancients.info/bogos

Reid Goldsborough wrote:
Anybody here have a 1799 Draped Bust large cent? How about one in
MS-62 Red condition? The Red Book doesn't list these at grades higher
than EF-40.

The condition census shows a choice AU-50 to be the finest known, followed
by two average VF-30s. They quickly go downhill from there, all the way to
VG-8.

A fellow collector loaned me one to look at and document online. Only
it as you likely suspected isn't a product of the U.S. Mint but is
Chinese in origin. It's one of the fakes from the Big Tree Coin
Factory in Fujian, China, the outfit that Susan Headley exposed so
well. This die transfer forgery is the exact weight (10.88g, well
within the excepted deviation from the published weight of 10.89g),
the exact diameter (also within the accepted range), and unmarked with
a COPY mark. I haven't photographed it yet, but I've showed it to
several dealers, and the only real diagnostic is that the rim is too
squared off. Dangerous. And very cool. I suspect/hope there are other
diagnostics as well, which early copper specialists and authenticity
experts at the grading services would be able to pick up.

The fact that it is such a high grade is all the diagnostic necessary to
identify it as a fake. It's the ones that are artificially aged that are
the more dangerous.

This brings up the old dilemma with regard to forgeries, about how
documenting them and providing diagnostics gives helpful information
to collectors while at the same time making it possible for forgers to
create ever more deceptive fakes. PCGS with its Coin Grading and
Counterfeiting Detection book wrestled I'm sure with this as well, as
did editors of the Bulletin on Counterfeits/Counterfeit Coin Bulletin
when it was still being published.

It's the age-old race between the lockmakers and the lockpickers, writ
large.

James