Bad News about Cross

"Matt Gabriel, Mad Poet of Newport" wrote in
message
Yamaha makes
their motorcycles in the US, as does Mercedes their midsisze sedans.

Are you sure Mercedes makes their midsize sedans in the US? I thought it was
just their SUV.
Richard

In article ,
"Paul" wrote:

As you all know the IT industry has taken (and continues to take) a
huge hit with regard to jobs and skills going "offshore". So now
we have manufacturing (which of course is not news). One needs to
look at what else is happening i.e, where other skills are going...
Keep in mind that I understand that other countries have the same
problem...

Your understanding seems a bit out of step with what's in the business
news media. Or perhaps, given the tenor of the rest of your comments,
you're just a bigot.

The list is as follows: Medical (Doctors and medical technicians,
nurses, scientists), mechanical engineering, electrical
engineering, Information Technology, banking, insurance... and
specialized areas of the above.

Er, dude, those are people with those skills coming INTO the US, not
leaving the US to work elsewhere. Lots of doctors, nurses, etc got
all of their training and experience in other countries before moving
to the US. Ditto the rest of these jobs.

You probably WON'T see agriculture, warehousing, and the like going
offshore, (since you really can't move it there - and THEY don't
want it since it's DIRTY WORK to them (too much sweat and dirt).

Foreigners (to the US) don't want to take jobs that are sweaty and
dirty. What planet are you living on?

They probably won't take SALES... they just don't have the finese.

You don't actually shop much, I'd guess.

I imagine at some time they will take over organized crime... but
that might be the last one they take over.

Yah, I'd hate to see foreigners take over the Mafia.

john cline ii wrote:


.... Cross is eliminating 80 manufacturing jobs in Rhode Island and
80 non-manufacturing jobs worldwide. They say they are moving some
production "offshore" but will maintain their high levels of quality.
The company generated a small profit this quarter, as opposed to a loss
a year ago. First Parker, then quite a few jobs at Sheaffer, now
Cross.


I have a number of emotions tumbling around regarding Cross's current
difficulties. I can remember that while in college I bought a Cross
Century at the bookstore in the Student Union. It was one of those
chrome jobs with the twist mechanism. While my tastes have changed,
at the time I thought it was the epitome of writing instruments.
Slender, solidly built, with an ink refill which seemed as if it would
write forever with nary a skip. It was tough enough to clip onto a
knapsack or stick in the hip pocket of a pair of jeans while being
classy enough to stick in a dress shirt pocket.

I only ever had to buy one refill for it. Somewhere over the years I
lost it. It's probably still being used and even money the new owner
is still using the refill that I bough for it.

Early in my working life I received a set of Cross Century Pens. It
had a ball point, a pencil, a "Select Tip" which could use a marker
cartridge and later a roller ball refill and a fountain pen. They had
a black matt finish with gold accents. All solidly built.

The fountain pen was the first I used as an adult. (In grammar
school, we had to use a cheap Sheaffer which was so scratchy to use I
probably would never have used another fountain pen had I not gotten
this as a gift.) For a many years, the Cross was the only fountain
pen I used. Ah, simpler times. I pulled it out the other day and
inked it up. After having used Lamys and rOtrings for so many years,
I was surprised by the amount of flex the nib had. It's a nice
writer, although the medium nib is a little on the narrow side for my
tastes.

Let's face it, the world has changed and Cross hasn't kept up. Or
should I say, Cross hasn't adapted. First, even those of us who love
pens, are using computers more and more. (Consider this news group to
be evidence of that.) Today, personal correspondence means sending an
e-mail. And those of us without computers or the inclination to use
them simply pick up a phone and make a call. (I can remember when
making a long distance call was so costly my family would only make
such a call on a holiday like Christmas or Mother's day. And my Mom
would use an egg timer to monitor the time we spent on the line lest
we run up too large a bill.) And how long has it been since
accountants found it necessary to buy a pen with an Extra-Fine nib to
keep the ledger?

Cross makes (made?) good quality pens which have a life time guaranty.
You're more likely to lose them than have them wear out or break. And
historically, most of what they sold were ballpoints. In today's
disposable culture, why spend more than a couple of bucks for a ball
pen when there are a lot more exciting choices to be had at the local
office superstore for about the price of a Cross ballpoint refill?

Those of us who collect pens don't do so because we actually "need"
them. And how can we justify what we spend on them from a practical
standpoint? Speaking for myself, I enjoy having a variety of pens and
inks around to use as my mood suits. Variety has never been strong
point for Cross. Other manufacturers vary their lines, put out
special and limited editions and otherwise create some excitement
about their wares.

As for the bogeyman of foreign production, there's no one to blame but
ourselves. And if it weren't for foreign manufactures, it would be
slim pickin's for fountain pens around these parts. Fortunately,
European and Asian cultures still value penmanship and fountain pens.
(Do they even teach penmanship in American grade schools anymore?)

I hope Cross makes it. But it won't be the same company I remember
from my youth. They seem to be expanding beyond pens into watches and
"business accessories". As the bard from Hibbing MN once sang:"
…he not busy being born
Is busy dying.

David
Who says: It's alright, Ma, (My fountain pen is only leaking ….
*Vespucci Red*)

(In a friendly tone)

You must be someone who's employed.

I suspect that your emotions and view on US business would be different if
you were kicked out of a thirty-year career, only to have untrained
foreigners take over and set out to ruin American business. Bank of
America, DELL, IBM, and scads of others use offshore resources (cheap) to
aid their profits. None of those companies and others think about the
mis-communication aspect of business requirements and customer satisfaction.
They've shucked the customer only to satisfy their small population of
corporate executives who make huge salaries and huge-er perk/benefit
portfolios. They kicked the American worker in the butt and said... "too
bad, so sad, but we don't care".

Hope you have a remarkably satisfying and profitable Monday at your job.

(still friendly)

=Paul




"Tim McNamara" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Paul" wrote:

As you all know the IT industry has taken (and continues to take) a
huge hit with regard to jobs and skills going "offshore". So now
we have manufacturing (which of course is not news). One needs to
look at what else is happening i.e, where other skills are going...
Keep in mind that I understand that other countries have the same
problem...

Your understanding seems a bit out of step with what's in the business
news media. Or perhaps, given the tenor of the rest of your comments,
you're just a bigot.

The list is as follows: Medical (Doctors and medical technicians,
nurses, scientists), mechanical engineering, electrical
engineering, Information Technology, banking, insurance... and
specialized areas of the above.

Er, dude, those are people with those skills coming INTO the US, not
leaving the US to work elsewhere. Lots of doctors, nurses, etc got
all of their training and experience in other countries before moving
to the US. Ditto the rest of these jobs.

You probably WON'T see agriculture, warehousing, and the like going
offshore, (since you really can't move it there - and THEY don't
want it since it's DIRTY WORK to them (too much sweat and dirt).

Foreigners (to the US) don't want to take jobs that are sweaty and
dirty. What planet are you living on?

They probably won't take SALES... they just don't have the finese.

You don't actually shop much, I'd guess.

I imagine at some time they will take over organized crime... but
that might be the last one they take over.

Yah, I'd hate to see foreigners take over the Mafia.

Moving your manufacturing to where your target market is is smart, as
it saves on shipping costs. It's not an exploitative practice. Moving
your labor to a thrid-world hell-hole that makes Dickensian London
seem like a paradise is exploitative, and cranks out crap products at
an alarmingly high price-per-unit, even tho man-hours are dirt cheap.
Exploiting third world labor to fudge the books is a clear sign that
costs are terminally out of control. Shuffling the payroll off to
India or Peru won't help, and will probably sink the company deep into
debt as they overextend their credit for new infrastructure abroad and
complicated transport overhead, as materials are shipped to the plant,
and then shipped again to the target market.

Toyota is going this route, trying to move all manufacturing from
Japan to the poorest parts of Southeast Asia. It's a clear sign
they're at the top of their growth arc, and their management is
desparate to keep the illusion of growth with "heroic" cost-cutting
measures. It's probably going to cost them their reputation for
bullet-proof quality in the long run.

~ Matt Gabriel, Mad Poet

Dave wrote in message ...

...but that IS overseas manufacturing! Yamaha and Mercedes should be
made in Japan and Germany, respectively, shouldn't they?

Or am I misunderstanding what you mean by "overseas manufacturing"?

David

(Do they even teach penmanship in American grade schools anymore?)


They certainly need to, as my junior high students have terrible penmanship.
Dave, I think they need "handwriting boot camp"! (just KIDDING!)


satrap




delete what doesn't belong there

Satrap
I find delusions of grandeur to be absolutely true

On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 03:14:36 GMT, William Bosner
said:

William On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 23:48:49 GMT, "Paul"
William
William wrote:

William Do you mind keeping this deluded bigoted nonsense to
William yourself? This is beyond the pail. If you were to take
^^^^

pale

William the energy invested in finding someone to blame (for
William whatever) and invest it in something constructive, you
William might be surprised at what positive results might follow.

Tell that to the management types. They've been blaming workers for
their own incompetence and lack of imagination for years. The result?
A multi-billion dollar U.S. trade deficit. Things can't go on like
this forever. Sure you're smug now, Mr. Suit but when crunch time
comes, it could very well be your job or business that disappears.

One more thing: all that happy horse**** 'Who Moved my Cheese'
nonsense sounds good to management types because they don't value the
work people do. It's an ego trip for them because the not-so-hidden
message is "shut up and submit". For the suits, outsourcing is a
bottom line decision (that is, IF they do anything beyond reflexively
apply the same tired formula.) Naturally, managers assume it ought to
be the same for the worker who loses a job: "Just put a smile on your
face and redo the old c.v." However, if you actually care about what
you do, I think you ought to be angry. If you aren't, it probably
means you didn't invest much of yourself into the job, which in turn
probably means you weren't doing it that well. Remember, if you want
workers to just walk away from their jobs, you shouldn't expect much
in return either.



--


Outsource a management job to India today!

The problem herein is the company's need to cut cost in order to be
competitive. It can be outsourcing manufacturing capability out of the
USA while not having to pay workers union wages and benefits. That is
what Parker pen did in 1999 when it moved its Janesville, WI plant to
Newhaven, England. The disadvantage of this move is that penlovers
will end up paying more for their pen products as new pens sent back
to the US will have custom duties tacked upon them and they will cost
more than they did when the companies had their plants in the USA.


should read

Newhaven, England. The disadvantage of this move is that *US* penlovers

i think,

ta

jolyon (happy uk national and uk parker user!)

However, if you actually care about what
you do, I think you ought to be angry.

This would get me where?

I, like many other people, have experienced the unpleasantness of
unpredictable economic change. In recent history. The changes in our
economy have certainly changed my economic world. It has been
frightening at times. However, I can't take it personally. There is no
"me" & "them" in this situation. I have made a set of economic choices
that I have to live by, just like everyone else. It's now time for new
ones.

Employers are not our parents or our families. Their primary concern
is the viability of their economic interest. This does not mean that
they don't like the people they employ or that they don't care about
the people they employ. However, their mandate is not social welfare,
it's profit. Even if corporations wanted to act as agents of social
welfare, it is not a viable role for them.

You may notice from my email address that I am in Canada. This colors
my views in ways that it might not if I were living in the USA. We
have somewhat different values about the factors which surround this
problem. Free enterprise, individualism, government, the welfare
state, taxation, and the role of business, all have a somewhat
different relationship to each other.

Just think, we could all be living with the economic realities which a
huge portion of the world faces. In this reality playing pen collector
on the internet is disrupted is and overshadowed by such mundane
concerns as survival.


BTW - I did mean "beyond the pale". Think of the wonderful Monty
Python film where some very large fellow is projectile vomiting in a
restaurant. John Cleese is trying to set out pails to catch the mess
and the fellow simply vomits beyond them.

"beyond the pail" - to go out of bounds
"beyond the pail" - to puke (emotionally) over the pail

Everyone wants a better deal and I think blaming foreigners is a waste
of time and energy. We all own a bit of the blame for our current
ills. But if I were to finger an economic "axis of evil", it would be
Wall Street, the Business Schools and the soulless MBAs they churn
out.

There is a horrible contradiction in the world. Good old American
ingenuity and free enterprise have brought us some wonderful things.
It also breeds the type of economic cannabism which is frightening
Paul.

It seems to me that Western culture needs better balance between
business values and a whole host of other important human values which
are in conflict with the values of business.

The "soulless MBAs" are not a phenomena which exist in a vacuum. They
both create, and are a reflection of, American values.