OLD OLD Wahl and MANY MANY Questions

As I've said in my few posts I'm just getting started in collecting
these neat items.
So I've got a couple of questions I hope someone can help me with.

How can you accurately determine a pen's value?

I've acquired an old Wahl pen that looks like it was made to hang on a
chain, maybe a lady's pen. It is only 3.5" long and the only markings
are on the nib, Wahl 2 14k. I've looked all over the web and not found
anything like it. Does this mean it's very rare or so inexpensive it
isn't worth mentioning?

Richard Binder is refurb'ing a beautiful green Vacumatic for me as we
speak. It will probably become my everyday pen along with my Parker
51. Looking at different sites I've found the same pens for as little
as $60 and as high as $350. The ads all say they work fine, rebuilt
etc. Why the big price difference?

My job takes me out into a lot of small towns almost all of them have
a junk or antique shop to poke around in so I'm looking forward to the
hunt. But I'm hoping to feed my habit by selling and trading some of
what I find. Is there a good pen guide/value book that everyone
prefers or is considered the standard? Amazon and such list a whole
bevy of books but I'd rather not buy a half dozen to find the right
one.

Last ? for now, well last two?s Is there a site that list shows and
locations? AND are there ever pen shows in the St.Louis MO area?


Thanks

Radarman

In article ,
radarman wrote:

How can you accurately determine a pen's value?

There were big arguments here not too long ago about this question.

Some people say "You can work out an approximate fair price for a pen if
you take certain factors into account."

The other people say "That's irrelevant. Whatever the highest bidder
will pay for it today is the only answer."

The two sides can never agree, because they don't look at your question
the same way. Now I've saved them the time it would have taken them to
have the argument all over again, unless they all protest that I've
misrepresented what they were trying to say. :-)

David

PS Sometimes there's a third side to this argument. He says
"Twenty-five dollars". Now I've saved him some time too. ;-)

radarman wrote:



How can you accurately determine a pen's value?

Ask a knowledgeable collector/dealer... someone who knows the market
(attends shows, buys/sells in other forums like eBay, etc.). They'll
provide you with a good estimate of the pen's value (ask for retail
value and not dealer cost). Price guides can give you ballpark
estimates, but they're no substitute for hands on learning. In order to
estimate the value of a pen, you have to be able to describe its
condition in a way that's consistent with generally accepted standards.
If a person can't do that, the price guides aren't going to be of much
help. Some folks will tell you to try selling the pen and determine the
value based on what you're offered for it, but that's folly. Find out
what you have first... then put it up for sale. You don't want to be the
guy who sells a flawless Parker Aztec for $5.

I've acquired an old Wahl pen that looks like it
was made to hang on a chain, maybe a lady's pen.
It is only 3.5" long and the only markings
are on the nib, Wahl 2 14k. I've looked all over
the web and not found anything like it. Does this
mean it's very rare or so inexpensive it isn't
worth mentioning?

It doesn't mean anything other than you couldn't find the pen on the
internet. It's really impossible to say anything about its value without
either seeing the pen, or having a pic of it, or having a much more
detailed description of it (e.g., is it rubber, metal, or plastic?).

Richard Binder is refurb'ing a beautiful green
Vacumatic for me as we speak. It will probably
become my everyday pen along with my Parker
51. Looking at different sites I've found the same
pens for as little as $60 and as high as $350.
The ads all say they work fine, rebuilt etc. Why
the big price difference?

Differences in model, size, condition, etc.

... Is there a good pen guide/value book that
everyone prefers or is considered the standard?
Amazon and such list a whole bevy of books but I'd
rather not buy a half dozen to find the right
one.

None lists every pen and none is going to teach you how to determine
condition or whether the pen has correct parts... etc. That being said,
Fischler & Schneider's blue book "Fountain Pens and Pencils: The Golden
Age of Writing Instruments" (I think the 1998 edition is the latest one)
is better than most. I prefer Cliff Lawrence's PFC Pen Guide, but it's
out of print (same caveat with inaccurate prices due to fluctuations in
the market, etc.).

Last ? for now, well last two?s Is there a site
that list shows and locations? AND are there ever
pen shows in the St.Louis MO area?

http://pw1.netcom.com/~swirth/2000.htm

Chicago would probably be the closest one.... It's 2nd largest in the
world next to the D.C. Show. Columbus is a nice sized one... and coming
up beginning of Nov. This would be a great first show for you.

Have fun... Bernadette

"radarman" wrote in message
...
As I've said in my few posts I'm just getting started in collecting
these neat items.
So I've got a couple of questions I hope someone can help me with.

How can you accurately determine a pen's value?

I've acquired an old Wahl pen that looks like it was made to hang on a
chain, maybe a lady's pen. It is only 3.5" long and the only markings
are on the nib, Wahl 2 14k. I've looked all over the web and not found
anything like it. Does this mean it's very rare or so inexpensive it
isn't worth mentioning?

Richard Binder is refurb'ing a beautiful green Vacumatic for me as we
speak. It will probably become my everyday pen along with my Parker
51. Looking at different sites I've found the same pens for as little
as $60 and as high as $350. The ads all say they work fine, rebuilt
etc. Why the big price difference?

My job takes me out into a lot of small towns almost all of them have
a junk or antique shop to poke around in so I'm looking forward to the
hunt. But I'm hoping to feed my habit by selling and trading some of
what I find. Is there a good pen guide/value book that everyone
prefers or is considered the standard? Amazon and such list a whole
bevy of books but I'd rather not buy a half dozen to find the right
one.

Last ? for now, well last two?s Is there a site that list shows and
locations? AND are there ever pen shows in the St.Louis MO area?


Thanks

Radarman

Hi there Radarman,

There is a chap over at this forum that specialises in Wahl Eversharp. The
name is Syd Saperstein. Follow this link:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fountainpencollecting/ but you have to
register to post. Good luck.
--
Best regards,
Free Citizen
http://www.freewebs.com/fpnet/

radarman writes:

How can you accurately determine a pen's value?

It's a black art. Perhaps not Aurora black, more like Waterman Noir.
So really sort of dark greyish.

Looking at different sites I've found the same pens for as little
as $60 and as high as $350. The ads all say they work fine, rebuilt
etc. Why the big price difference?

Well, the reasons for this can be many- Bernadette would be able to
detail some of the specifics better than I can, probably. But
sometimes the differences are not immediately obvious- a rare color,
differences in trim or nibs, condition (not just damage- many plastic
are not color-stable and change colors as they age and are exposed to
things like outgassing from rubber sacs)

Is there a good pen guide/value book that everyone prefers or is
considered the standard?

Well, probably the "standard" if there is one is _Fountain Pens and
Pencils_ by George Fischler and Stuart Schneider. The values should
be taken with a grain of salt, as values go up and down according to
demand and the whims of the market. I also like Paul Erano's
_Fountain Pens Past and Present_, it has some very nice pictures.
_Fountain Pens of the World_ is also a great book- expensive, but
great. And the late Frank Dubiel's _Fountain Pens: The Complete Guide
to Repair and Restoration_ is also worth having, even if you're not
going to repair pens yourself.

radarman writes:

How can you accurately determine a pen's value?

You can't.

Your question would make sense were you to eliminate that word "accurately".
The only accurate determinate price is that price at which an item (any item,
or service) actually sells.

I believe your query would make sense were you to ask "How does one determine
the selling price of a pen?" And then one can enumerate a gadzillion different
basis to apply for making said determination.

Obviously, as with all sales, the value is determined differently based on
whether one is seller or buyer, capeche?


---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````

Radarman wrote:
Looking at different sites I've found the same
pens for as little as $60 and as high as $350.
The ads all say they work fine, rebuilt etc. Why
the big price difference?

Tim McNamara wrote:
Well, the reasons for this can be many- Bernadette
would be able to detail some of the specifics
better than I can, probably. But sometimes the
differences are not immediately obvious- a rare
color, differences in trim or nibs, condition (not
just damage- many plastic are not color-stable and
change colors as they age and are exposed to
things like outgassing from rubber sacs)

Hi Radarman; Hi Tim ---

I'm not sure what Radarman means by the "same pens." Does he mean
emerald pearl Vacumatics (in general) or a particular model Vacumatic in
emerald pearl. "Emerald pearl Vacumatic" covers a lot of territory from
little slenders, debs, and juniors to OS's and Senior Maximas and
everything in between. An emerald pearl major with single black jewel
and ambered barrel could go for as little as $60. An emerald pearl OS
could easily go for far more than $350. Here's a great site that'll give
you an idea of how many different models of Vacs exist...
http://parkerpens.net/vacumatic.shtml. Then, as Tim mentioned, there are
little variations that could account for differences in price (e.g.,
bullseye jewel, star clip, cap band imprinted with "Vacumatic," etc.).
Also as Tim mentioned, condition is another big factor, but I can't
imagine it would account for a difference between $60 and $350... gotta
be different models or other variation. I'm not a vacumatic expert
(cripes I almost said "serious collector" of vacumatics s). If you'd
like more information, you could contact Joel Hamilton who is a
Vacumatic expert, a dealer, and an all around really nice guy
(www.ink-pen.com). Kind regards, Bernadette

"BL" writes:

Radarman wrote:
Looking at different sites I've found the same pens for as little
as $60 and as high as $350.
The ads all say they work fine, rebuilt etc. Why the big price
difference?

Tim McNamara wrote:
Well, the reasons for this can be many- Bernadette would be able to
detail some of the specifics better than I can, probably. But
sometimes the differences are not immediately obvious- a rare
color, differences in trim or nibs, condition (not just damage-
many plastic are not color-stable and change colors as they age and
are exposed to things like outgassing from rubber sacs)

Hi Radarman; Hi Tim ---

I'm not sure what Radarman means by the "same pens." Does he mean
emerald pearl Vacumatics (in general) or a particular model
Vacumatic in emerald pearl. "Emerald pearl Vacumatic" covers a lot
of territory from little slenders, debs, and juniors to OS's and
Senior Maximas and everything in between. An emerald pearl major
with single black jewel and ambered barrel could go for as little as
$60. An emerald pearl OS could easily go for far more than
$350. Here's a great site that'll give you an idea of how many
different models of Vacs exist...

Precisely the type of particulars I had in mind.

http://parkerpens.net/vacumatic.shtml. Then, as Tim mentioned, there
are little variations that could account for differences in price
(e.g., bullseye jewel, star clip, cap band imprinted with
"Vacumatic," etc.). Also as Tim mentioned, condition is another big
factor, but I can't imagine it would account for a difference
between $60 and $350... gotta be different models or other
variation. I'm not a vacumatic expert (cripes I almost said "serious
collector" of vacumatics s). If you'd like more information, you
could contact Joel Hamilton who is a Vacumatic expert, a dealer, and
an all around really nice guy (www.ink-pen.com). Kind regards,
Bernadette