Criticised with class!

Converting to the metric system involves much more than teaching it to the
public. American factories, machine shops, auto repair garages and countless
other facilities have literally billions of dollars invested in tools and other
equipment calibrated to the English system. It would cost billions of dollars
more to convert them to another sytem of measurement, which is why Congress
abandoned attempts at forced conversion. If only Benjamin Franklin had been
able to convince us to convert back in the 1790s when the metric system was
new!

Wasn't the proposed 'phase in' at the time something like 10 years? I
would think that for the vast majority of companies that would be
sufficient, however I'd also expect some companies not to comply because
what they do right there on their premesis is of no consequence to
anyone or anything else really as it doesn't affect the public. As for
cars etc, many of the bolts and screws used on them are already metric,
have been for years. Note too that our stamps are measured in MM's.
Our bottles of Coca Cola etc are measured in liters. But then we can't
embrace a $1 coin, even though Canada showed us how to do it, and do it
right with their Loonies and Twonies and eliminating the $1 bill!

As for teaching, US kids should be taught it as its the math language of
the rest of the world.

Grandpa

Dave Kent wrote:
Converting to the metric system involves much more than teaching it to the
public. American factories, machine shops, auto repair garages and countless
other facilities have literally billions of dollars invested in tools and other
equipment calibrated to the English system. It would cost billions of dollars
more to convert them to another sytem of measurement, which is why Congress
abandoned attempts at forced conversion. If only Benjamin Franklin had been
able to convince us to convert back in the 1790s when the metric system was
new!

I finally learned yesterday that a 'bob' was a shilling. :-)

-a

--

Send Replies to:


"Stamps4ra" wrote in message
...
Almost as bad as the Quid and Tuppence wouldn't you say?

Ralphael, the OLD one

A bit, two bits, a saw buck, double saw buck. It's simple.

-a

--

Send Replies to:


"John Mycroft" wrote in message
...
Gday!
Ah yes, I do miss New Zealand's tunnels, especially the Homer which is cut
through solid rock and has never had a proper road bed put in it. Try
that
in your low-slung Ferrari!

Don't mock the English coinage of my youth - I still have trouble with the
nickel being bigger than the dime and with the dime saying cryptically
that
it is worth "one dime". If you want truly stupid coins, go to Australia
(What, them again!!) where the 1 dollar coin is half the size of the 2
dollar coin.

I will not be drawn on the subject of the USA's paper money. Nothing that
ugly has any right to be valuable.

--
Cheers - John Mycroft
coryton_at_cobbsmill_dot_com

On Sun, 5 Sep 2004 11:27:17 -0700, "Albumen"
wrote:

I finally learned yesterday that a 'bob' was a shilling. :-)

-a

================================================== ====================
Albumem and All:

I thought (in RCSD at least that a Bob was an Ingraham. 38*)

In any case I thought the following might of interest,

Blair Stannard

================================================== ====================

The British Monetary System before Decimalization


£ (a Latin L) :
pound, symbol for pounds sterling. 1968 was the year of decimalization
of the British currency when a pound became 100 new pennies. Prior to
that a pound was 20 shillings, a shilling twelve pence (pennies) and
the smallest division of a penny was a farthing. It is written £/s/d
and £/s/- for even shillings. From 1776 till WWII £1 fluctuated
between $3-$5 (1864 peak of $12). Since WWII it has fluctuated around
$2 when 1d was 1¢ (low of $1.04 in 1985). Hence, the slang `dollar'
for 5/- and `half a dollar' was accurate until the early 70s.

£sd /el es dee/ n :
`pounds, shillings, and pence', money in general, and the British
monetary system in particular prior to decimalization (4 farthings = 1
penny, 12 pence = 1 shilling, 2 shillings = 1 florin, 5 shillings = 1
crown, 20 shillings = 1 pound (sovereign), 21 shillings = 1 guinea).

¼d /fahdhing/ :
symbol for a farthing, four to a penny, about the size of a copper
cent, went out of circulation in 1956.

½d /haypnee/ :
symbol for a halfpenny, about the size of a thin copper quarter.

1d /penee/ n :
symbol for penny.

2d /tuhp@ns/ n :
twopence, (also symbol for half groat).

3d /threp@ns/ /thr@p@ns/ /thruhp@ns/ /thrup@ns/ /fr@p@ns/ :
symbol for threepence, threepenny bit, silver (about size of a dime)
until 1920, then 12-sided brass coin like a fat nickel.

4d n :
symbol for groat.

6d /sicksp@ns/ :
symbol for sixpence, about size of a dime, syn. tanner.

1/-, 1s, 12d :
symbol for shilling (12d), about size of a quarter, still in
circulation, equivalent to 5p, syn. bob, shilling bit.

2/- :
symbol for florin, two shillings, about the size of a half dollar,
still in circulation, equivalent to 10p, syn. two bob.

2/6d /too n siks/ :
symbol for half a crown, two-and-six (pence), larger than a half
dollar.

5/- :
symbol for crown, five shillings, huge, much larger than a silver
dollar.

10/- :
symbol for (brown) ten shilling note, syn. ten bob note.

10/6d :
ten-and-six, also half a guinea (see Mad Hatter's topper).

20/-, £1, 240d, 100p :
alternate for £1 (green), pound, pound sterling, sovereign.

21/- :
symbol for guinea, twenty-one shillings.

£1 :
symbol for one pound note (green), first issued in 1928, new note
issued in 1968, and reverting back to coins in 1983.

£5 :
symbol for five pound note (blue, though, like the tenner's, they used
to be huge white sheets inscribed with gold filigree, large enough to
wrap up plenty of money in).

£10 :
symbol for ten pounds (brown) or ten pound note.

£20 n:
symbol for twenty pounds or the twenty pound note (rainbow colors).

½p :
bronze 1971-1985.

1p :
bronze 1971.

2p n :
bronze coin, about the same size as a Susan B. Anthony dollar.

5p n :
cupro-nickel coin, made exactly the same size, shape and value as the
old shilling.

10p n :
coin introduced in 1982.

20p :
coin introduced in 1982.

50p :
seven sided coin introduced in 1969.

ackers [Egyptian, akka, one piastre] n :
pound notes or money in general.

bent adj :
gay, "bent as a three-pound note", "bent as a nine-bob note".

bit n :
coin when used with its value, as: threepenny bit, sixpenny bit, two
shilling bit, as opposed to note.

bob n :
shilling, "lend me a bob, mate". (See a couple of bob, ten bob)

bun penny n :
a Queen Victoria penny bearing her portrait with her hair done up in a
bun (1860-1874), and found occasionally in one's change even up till
decimalization.

couple of bob n :
some money, "I bet that set you back a couple of bob".

crown n :
five shilling piece, 5/-, dollar.

decimalization n :
the changeover from £sd to decimal currency (100 new pence = £1),
initiated in 1968 with introduction of 5p and 10p coins and completed
by 1971 with the ½p, 1p, 2p, 20p and 50p, where 100p = £1.
The official start of the new currency was February 15th, 1971. The
old currency stopped being used about 6 months later, although the
changeover period was originally scheduled to last a year.

The 5p and 10p coins were the same size as the old 1/- and 2/- coins,
and no attempt was made to withdraw these old coins from circulation,
to the confusion of the visitor. However, in 1990 and 1992 new,
smaller, coins for 5p and 10p were introduced, and the old ones
withdrawn a year or so later. The only pre-decimalisation coins still
being minted are the crowns (5/-) occasionally minted to mark special
occasions.

dollar sl n :
five shilling piece, 5/-, five bob, 25p.

farthing n :
¼d, coin of least value, "haven't got two brass farthings to rub
together".

fiver sl n :
five pound note, £5.

flim [flimsy] n :
five pound note, esp. from before the war (WWII).

florin n :
two shilling bit, 2/-.

groat n :
4d, silver coin 1351-1662, fourpenny bit 1836-1856, small sum, "don't
care a groat".

guinea n :
gold coin last coined in 1813, but still used to refer to 21/- values.

half a crown n :
a value of 2/6d, or the half crown coin, about the size of a silver
dollar.

half a dollar sl n :
half a crown, 2/6d, (12½p).

half-crown n :
another way of saying and writing half a crown.

halfpenny /haypnee/ /hayp@ns/ n :
½d.

ha'p'orth /hayp@th/ n :
halfpenny's worth, but used in reference to any trifling amount, "he's
not worth a ha'p'orth".

p /pee/ n :
symbol for new pence.

new pence n :
the new decimal currency (see decimalization) where 100 new pence
equal a pound (100p = £1), as opposed to the old £sd currency. `New'
money has 1p /wun pee/, /nyoo penee/ or /penee/; 2p /too pee/
sometimes /tuhp@ns/: about the size of a large copper quarter; 5p:
exactly the same size shape and value as the old shilling, about the
size of a quarter; 10p: exactly the same size shape and value as the
old two shilling piece, about the size of a half dollar; 20p: a small
five sided brass coin about the size of a thin nickel; 50p: seven
sided coin about the size of a silver dollar; and finally the sov=100p

nicker sl n :
pound (£), "it cost 'im twenty nicker".

note n :
bill when used with value, as: ten shilling note, one pound note, five
pound note; see bit.

old penny n :
the penny before decimalization.

quid n :
£1, one pound sterling, same as buck for dollar.

shilling n :
see 1/-.

sov col abbr :
sovereign.

sovereign n :
gold coin worth £1, now used to refer, with a hint of irony, to the
new brass pound coin about the size of a squat fat quarter, there are
five kinds differing by the inscription on the side and the design
representing the four countries comprising the UK and the UK as a
whole; pound notes were done away with in 1986.

sterling n :
British currency, syn pound, see £.

tanner sl n :
sixpenny bit, sixpence, "spare us a tanner, mate".
ten bob n :

ten shillings or half a pound, but usually referring to the ten
shilling note (until they went of circulation in 1971).

tenner sl n :
ten pound note.

topper n :
top hat.

twopence halfpenny /tupneeyaypnee/ csl n :
a trifling or worthless amount.

twopence /tuhp@ns/ n :
2d, two pennies, half groat.

Blair (TC) wrote:

Albumem and All:

I thought (in RCSD at least that a Bob was an Ingraham. 38*)

In any case I thought the following might of interest

(big snip)

Thanks for that. I would add that the 2/- coin, or florin, was I believe
introduced in the late 19th century (don't know exactly when) as a first
step towards decimalisation. Things sometimes move slowly in this part
of the world!

--
John Ray, London UK.

I think horseflesh is still sold using the "guineas" denomination in the UK.

| Thanks for that. I would add that the 2/- coin, or florin, was I believe
| introduced in the late 19th century (don't know exactly when) as a first
| step towards decimalisation. Things sometimes move slowly in this part
| of the world!
| John Ray, London UK.

On Mon, 06 Sep 2004 11:50:58 +0100, John Ray
wrote:

Blair (TC) wrote:

Albumem and All:

I thought (in RCSD at least that a Bob was an Ingraham. 38*)

In any case I thought the following might of interest

(big snip)

Thanks for that. I would add that the 2/- coin, or florin, was I believe
introduced in the late 19th century (don't know exactly when) as a first
step towards decimalisation. Things sometimes move slowly in this part
of the world!

================================================== ===================

You are correct John. The Florin created in 1849 and was 0.10 Pounds.

The plan was to copy the French decimalization process (1794)
where 1 sou became 5 centimes. The idea was that the Florin
(with 96 farthings) would be re-constituted with 100 farthings
(possibly renamed as cents) per florin.

But the decimalization idea did not catch on for another century
and a quarter.

Blair

On Mon, 6 Sep 2004 19:05:30 +0800, "Rodney"
wrote:

I think horseflesh is still sold using the "guineas" denomination in the UK.

| Thanks for that. I would add that the 2/- coin, or florin, was I believe
| introduced in the late 19th century (don't know exactly when) as a first
| step towards decimalisation. Things sometimes move slowly in this part
| of the world!
| John Ray, London UK.

================================================== ===================

Rodney:

The Guinea coin of 1663 was the first British machine-struck gold
coin. The first one was produced on 6 February 1663 (1662 Old Style),
and was made legal currency by a Proclamation of 27 March 1663. 44 and
one half guineas would be made from one Troy pound of 11/12 fineness
gold, each weighing 129.4 grains. The denomination was originally
worth one pound, or twenty shillings, but an increase in the price of
gold during Charles II's reign led to it being traded at a premium. In
1670 the weight of the coin was reduced from 8.4-8.5 grams to 8.3-8.4
grams, but the price of gold continued to increase, and by the 1680s
the coin was worth 22 shillings. The diameter of the coin was 25
millimetres throughout Charles II's reign, and the average gold
content (from an assay done in 1773) was 0.9100.

"Guinea" was not an official name for the coin, but much of the gold
used to produce the early coins came from Guinea in Africa, the Africa
Company having a charter which allowed them to put their symbol, an
elephant or later an elephant and castle, beneath the king's effigy on
the coins, and the term "guinea" originated from this. The coin was
produced each year between 1663 and 1684, with the elephant appearing
on some coins each year from 1663-5 and 1668, and the elephant and
castle on some coins from 1674 onwards.

The obverse and reverse of this coin were designed by John Roettier
(1631-c.1700). The obverse showed a fine right-facing bust of the king
wearing a laurel wreath (amended several times during the reign),
surrounded by the legend CAROLVS II DEI GRATIA, while the reverse
showed four crowned cruciform shields bearing the arms of England,
Scotland, France, and Ireland, between which were four sceptres, and
in the centre were four interlinked "C"s, surrounded by the
inscription MAG BR FRA ET HIB REX date.

To avoid confusion with gilded silver coins the edge was milled to
deter clipping or filing (and to distinguish it from the silver
half-crown which had edge lettering) -- until 1669 the milling was
perpendicular to the coin, giving vertical grooves, while from 1670
the milling was diagonal to the coin.

In 1813 it was necessary to strike 80,000 guineas to pay the Duke of
Wellington's army in the Pyrenees, as the local people would only
accept gold in payment. This issue has become known as the Military
Guinea. At this time gold was still scarce, and the guinea was trading
on the open market for 27 shillings in paper money, so the coining of
this issue for the army's special needs was a poor deal for the
government, and this was the last issue of guineas to be minted. The
reverse of the military guinea is a unique design, showing a crowned
shield within a Garter, with HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE on the Garter,
and BRITANNIARUM REX FIDEI DEFENSOR around the edge, and 1813 between
the edge inscription and the garter.

In the Great Recoinage of 1816, the guinea was replaced as the major
unit of currency by the pound.

Even after the coin ceased to circulate, the name was long used to
indicate the amount of 21 shillings (£1.05 in decimalised currency).
The guinea had an aristocratic overtone; professional fees and payment
for land, horses and art were often quoted in guineas until
decimalisation in 1971. It is still quoted in the pricing and sale of
race horses

Blair Stannard (TC)

Very interesting list. But there is a problem. On my screen, the symbol
"@" appears in the pronunciation given for a coin. What letter did that
intend to represent?

Tony

"Blair (TC)" The wrote in message
...
On Sun, 5 Sep 2004 11:27:17 -0700, "Albumen"
wrote:

I finally learned yesterday that a 'bob' was a shilling. :-)

-a

================================================== ====================
Albumem and All:

I thought (in RCSD at least that a Bob was an Ingraham. 38*)

In any case I thought the following might of interest,

Blair Stannard

================================================== ====================

The British Monetary System before Decimalization


£ (a Latin L) :
pound, symbol for pounds sterling. 1968 was the year of decimalization
of the British currency when a pound became 100 new pennies. Prior to
that a pound was 20 shillings, a shilling twelve pence (pennies) and
the smallest division of a penny was a farthing. It is written £/s/d
and £/s/- for even shillings. From 1776 till WWII £1 fluctuated
between $3-$5 (1864 peak of $12). Since WWII it has fluctuated around
$2 when 1d was 1¢ (low of $1.04 in 1985). Hence, the slang `dollar'
for 5/- and `half a dollar' was accurate until the early 70s.

£sd /el es dee/ n :
`pounds, shillings, and pence', money in general, and the British
monetary system in particular prior to decimalization (4 farthings = 1
penny, 12 pence = 1 shilling, 2 shillings = 1 florin, 5 shillings = 1
crown, 20 shillings = 1 pound (sovereign), 21 shillings = 1 guinea).

¼d /fahdhing/ :
symbol for a farthing, four to a penny, about the size of a copper
cent, went out of circulation in 1956.

½d /haypnee/ :
symbol for a halfpenny, about the size of a thin copper quarter.

1d /penee/ n :
symbol for penny.

2d /tuhp@ns/ n :
twopence, (also symbol for half groat).

3d /threp@ns/ /thr@p@ns/ /thruhp@ns/ /thrup@ns/ /fr@p@ns/ :
symbol for threepence, threepenny bit, silver (about size of a dime)
until 1920, then 12-sided brass coin like a fat nickel.

4d n :
symbol for groat.

6d /sicksp@ns/ :
symbol for sixpence, about size of a dime, syn. tanner.

1/-, 1s, 12d :
symbol for shilling (12d), about size of a quarter, still in
circulation, equivalent to 5p, syn. bob, shilling bit.

2/- :
symbol for florin, two shillings, about the size of a half dollar,
still in circulation, equivalent to 10p, syn. two bob.

2/6d /too n siks/ :
symbol for half a crown, two-and-six (pence), larger than a half
dollar.

5/- :
symbol for crown, five shillings, huge, much larger than a silver
dollar.

10/- :
symbol for (brown) ten shilling note, syn. ten bob note.

10/6d :
ten-and-six, also half a guinea (see Mad Hatter's topper).

20/-, £1, 240d, 100p :
alternate for £1 (green), pound, pound sterling, sovereign.

21/- :
symbol for guinea, twenty-one shillings.

£1 :
symbol for one pound note (green), first issued in 1928, new note
issued in 1968, and reverting back to coins in 1983.

£5 :
symbol for five pound note (blue, though, like the tenner's, they used
to be huge white sheets inscribed with gold filigree, large enough to
wrap up plenty of money in).

£10 :
symbol for ten pounds (brown) or ten pound note.

£20 n:
symbol for twenty pounds or the twenty pound note (rainbow colors).

½p :
bronze 1971-1985.

1p :
bronze 1971.

2p n :
bronze coin, about the same size as a Susan B. Anthony dollar.

5p n :
cupro-nickel coin, made exactly the same size, shape and value as the
old shilling.

10p n :
coin introduced in 1982.

20p :
coin introduced in 1982.

50p :
seven sided coin introduced in 1969.

ackers [Egyptian, akka, one piastre] n :
pound notes or money in general.

bent adj :
gay, "bent as a three-pound note", "bent as a nine-bob note".

bit n :
coin when used with its value, as: threepenny bit, sixpenny bit, two
shilling bit, as opposed to note.

bob n :
shilling, "lend me a bob, mate". (See a couple of bob, ten bob)

bun penny n :
a Queen Victoria penny bearing her portrait with her hair done up in a
bun (1860-1874), and found occasionally in one's change even up till
decimalization.

couple of bob n :
some money, "I bet that set you back a couple of bob".

crown n :
five shilling piece, 5/-, dollar.

decimalization n :
the changeover from £sd to decimal currency (100 new pence = £1),
initiated in 1968 with introduction of 5p and 10p coins and completed
by 1971 with the ½p, 1p, 2p, 20p and 50p, where 100p = £1.
The official start of the new currency was February 15th, 1971. The
old currency stopped being used about 6 months later, although the
changeover period was originally scheduled to last a year.

The 5p and 10p coins were the same size as the old 1/- and 2/- coins,
and no attempt was made to withdraw these old coins from circulation,
to the confusion of the visitor. However, in 1990 and 1992 new,
smaller, coins for 5p and 10p were introduced, and the old ones
withdrawn a year or so later. The only pre-decimalisation coins still
being minted are the crowns (5/-) occasionally minted to mark special
occasions.

dollar sl n :
five shilling piece, 5/-, five bob, 25p.

farthing n :
¼d, coin of least value, "haven't got two brass farthings to rub
together".

fiver sl n :
five pound note, £5.

flim [flimsy] n :
five pound note, esp. from before the war (WWII).

florin n :
two shilling bit, 2/-.

groat n :
4d, silver coin 1351-1662, fourpenny bit 1836-1856, small sum, "don't
care a groat".

guinea n :
gold coin last coined in 1813, but still used to refer to 21/- values.

half a crown n :
a value of 2/6d, or the half crown coin, about the size of a silver
dollar.

half a dollar sl n :
half a crown, 2/6d, (12½p).

half-crown n :
another way of saying and writing half a crown.

halfpenny /haypnee/ /hayp@ns/ n :
½d.

ha'p'orth /hayp@th/ n :
halfpenny's worth, but used in reference to any trifling amount, "he's
not worth a ha'p'orth".

p /pee/ n :
symbol for new pence.

new pence n :
the new decimal currency (see decimalization) where 100 new pence
equal a pound (100p = £1), as opposed to the old £sd currency. `New'
money has 1p /wun pee/, /nyoo penee/ or /penee/; 2p /too pee/
sometimes /tuhp@ns/: about the size of a large copper quarter; 5p:
exactly the same size shape and value as the old shilling, about the
size of a quarter; 10p: exactly the same size shape and value as the
old two shilling piece, about the size of a half dollar; 20p: a small
five sided brass coin about the size of a thin nickel; 50p: seven
sided coin about the size of a silver dollar; and finally the sov=100p

nicker sl n :
pound (£), "it cost 'im twenty nicker".

note n :
bill when used with value, as: ten shilling note, one pound note, five
pound note; see bit.

old penny n :
the penny before decimalization.

quid n :
£1, one pound sterling, same as buck for dollar.

shilling n :
see 1/-.

sov col abbr :
sovereign.

sovereign n :
gold coin worth £1, now used to refer, with a hint of irony, to the
new brass pound coin about the size of a squat fat quarter, there are
five kinds differing by the inscription on the side and the design
representing the four countries comprising the UK and the UK as a
whole; pound notes were done away with in 1986.

sterling n :
British currency, syn pound, see £.

tanner sl n :
sixpenny bit, sixpence, "spare us a tanner, mate".
ten bob n :

ten shillings or half a pound, but usually referring to the ten
shilling note (until they went of circulation in 1971).

tenner sl n :
ten pound note.

topper n :
top hat.

twopence halfpenny /tupneeyaypnee/ csl n :
a trifling or worthless amount.

twopence /tuhp@ns/ n :
2d, two pennies, half groat.